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AuthorTopic: Os 3.2 development preview  (Read 29455 times)

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Offline my_pc_is_amiga

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #90 on: September 03, 2019, 06:31:54 AM »
Seeing that there will be Workbench screen title bar customization, is there any small changes that could be done to the Drawer window title bar as well?

For example, instead of "Commodities" in title bar, maybe could add "Commodities in Workbench:"   This has always been a limitation when I'm trying to browse and I may have 2 drawer windows open with same name from different volumes and can't tell which is which.   Full path would be ideal but maybe too much text...

Offline gdonner

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #91 on: September 03, 2019, 07:33:20 PM »
Quote
Not really, it is a seven-segment display component. Such displays can be implemented via LED, LCD, or other technologies.

Technically correct, but in the context of Commodore's "LED" gadget, they are combined into an LCD panel and (AFAIK) intended for easy plugin coding for CD audio players, etc.

Anyway... lol Not a big deal as long as a true standalone light-emitting diode gadget isn't needed in BOOPSI (which sort of already exists via the ASL file requester).
 

Offline paul1981

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #92 on: September 04, 2019, 06:22:10 PM »
Can you give the LoadWB command a NOWBSTARTUP option? Because, this would make it easier to disable all the WBStartup programs together for debugging boot issues or testing software etc. Currently I have a drawer inside WBStartup that I move them all into and then back out of again when I want them back. I do realise that I could simply rename or move the WBStartup drawer instead, but it is a system drawer and it doesn't seem quite right to do this.

Offline nbache

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #93 on: September 04, 2019, 07:05:11 PM »
@paul1981:

Quote
Can you give the LoadWB command a NOWBSTARTUP option?
In OS4, for comparison, this is achieved by holding down a Shift or an Alt key during startup. Maybe something similar could be done in 3.2? (To make life that bit easier for anyone using both ;-))

Best regards,

Niels
 

Offline kamelito

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #94 on: September 04, 2019, 08:54:20 PM »
@Thomas Richter
In the Amiga Devcon 1993 in Denver there’s a topic about writing OS friendly games.

“ Things the OS can't currently do
- Scroll individual scanlines of a ViewPort
- AA color copperlist fades
- Dynamically update user copper lists.

All these are planned to be addressed in future OS releases. One of our goals is to make it possible to perform as many Amiga tricks in normal Intuition screens as is possible. “

So my question is : will this planned features have a chance to be implemented in future versions of the OS?
 

Offline kamelito

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #95 on: September 04, 2019, 09:19:23 PM »
@Thomas Richter
If you read the 1993 Devcon there is a topic about future directions, not only about AAA but also :
-Amiga User Interface Directions
-Upcoming Amiga User Interface Developments
-RTG
-Retargetabe Graphics Specification
 

Offline Matt_H

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #96 on: September 05, 2019, 02:45:56 AM »
@paul1981:

Quote
Can you give the LoadWB command a NOWBSTARTUP option?
In OS4, for comparison, this is achieved by holding down a Shift or an Alt key during startup. Maybe something similar could be done in 3.2? (To make life that bit easier for anyone using both ;-))

Best regards,

Niels

3.9+ (3.5+?) has the SKIP aka SKIPWBSTARTUP switch. Should be easy for the dev team to add that back in.
 

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #97 on: September 05, 2019, 06:35:36 AM »
“ Things the OS can't currently do
- Scroll individual scanlines of a ViewPort
- AA color copperlist fades
- Dynamically update user copper lists.

All these are planned to be addressed in future OS releases. One of our goals is to make it possible to perform as many Amiga tricks in normal Intuition screens as is possible. “

So my question is : will this planned features have a chance to be implemented in future versions of the OS?
Likely not. I do not even know what this should mean (what is a "copperlist fade"? What is a dynamically updated copperlist? UCopperListInit and friends exist already, so you can certainly update them) Essentially, the way how the graphics.library code looks, it is more at the end of its lifetime, and we should really replace that by something different and more "cleaned up".

For 3.2, no major works on graphics are planned, except a better integration of AllocBitMap() into the P96 model that doesn't change a thing for native graphics. I believe this is about it.

Offline Thomas Richter

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #98 on: September 05, 2019, 06:42:11 AM »
@Thomas Richter
If you read the 1993 Devcon there is a topic about future directions, not only about AAA but also :
-Amiga User Interface Directions
-Upcoming Amiga User Interface Developments
-RTG
-Retargetabe Graphics Specification
See above. As far as the user interface is concerned, we will have reaction classes. Whether there will be reaction versions of the system tools is yet to see. The major change for the user interface will be the option to add an iconification gadget to the UI upon request.

To implement another RTG system or couple this more tightly to the Os does not make much sense at this point. We have P96 which is still being updated, but also Cybergraphics which is, even though it is now in "rotting stage" (i.e. out of maintenance), still in use, so we cannot really force anyone into one particular RTG universe. About the only change concerning RTG that affected the Os (graphics and intuition) is a new set of flags for AllocBitMap() to be able to allocate a bitmap on graphics card memory. These flags are "properly ignored" by the Os (even in 3.1), but generated by intuition to avoid one bad hack for OpenScreen() in the P96 implementation of AllocBitMap().


Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #99 on: September 05, 2019, 02:24:42 PM »
Whatever classes that are incorporated into the OS, the entire mess that is SYS:Prefs and {envarc,env}:sys/#?.prefs should be tidied up, though it would most certainly imply compatibility issues. Anything resembling "Reaction Prefs" should be avoided, instead this should be merged with Fonts prefs and just be one "Appearance Prefs" or similar. I have earlier written that wbpattern should be merged with workbench prefs, and there should be a "public screen manager" to deal with setting up screens, their properties (including backgrounds), screen modes etc. including that of the Workbench screen. And ideally, it should be easy to import/export prefs from some text file format... perhaps an ARexx port for IPrefs.

One can dream...
« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 02:26:36 PM by kolla »
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Offline Minuous

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #100 on: September 05, 2019, 04:35:26 PM »
And ideally, it should be easy to import/export prefs from some text file format...

I don't think there is any situation where this would actually be useful; you can already use a tool like Report+ to examine preference files in a user-friendly way if necessary.

Quote
Anything resembling "Reaction Prefs" should be avoided, instead this should be merged with Fonts prefs and just be one "Appearance Prefs" or similar.

Fonts and ReAction are not especially related. Most preferences editors could be construed as having something to do with appearance.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 05:00:30 PM by Minuous »
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #101 on: September 06, 2019, 07:56:04 AM »
And ideally, it should be easy to import/export prefs from some text file format...

I don't think there is any situation where this would actually be useful; you can already use a tool like Report+ to examine preference files in a user-friendly way if necessary.

Really - well, I do - a lot, and I am not alone - this is why there is a Prefs/Presets directory. It is exactly for this, but it requires that one "pre-make" all the preference files and load them with the associated prefs program. I wish for a more dynamic method to load new prefs, with specific parameters, from scripts, from arexx etc.

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Quote
Anything resembling "Reaction Prefs" should be avoided, instead this should be merged with Fonts prefs and just be one "Appearance Prefs" or similar.

Fonts and ReAction are not especially related.
Exactly, and that is "the mess". There is Font prefs and there is Palette prefs, yet the Reaction prefs have both Font and Palette settings that only are valid for Reaction classes - why should a user know what classes are reaction and what classes are not? With Reaction classes being incorporated into the OS, this should all be unified.

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Most preferences editors could be construed as having something to do with appearance.

Not really, from the OS itself there is just Font, Palette, and arguably Pointer prefs. WBPattern and Workbench are prefs for the program "Workbench" - though WBPattern is a little too much, also doing the screen backdrop of the "Workbench" screen, which strictly speaking has little to do with workbench.library) - WBPattern and Workbench prefs should be merged. Screenmode and Overscan should easily be merged, and I would prefer something more advanced, akin to MUI PSI to manage public screens and their properties in general.
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Offline paul1981

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #102 on: September 06, 2019, 08:23:54 PM »
@kolla
Presets can already be loaded via scripts. Can you explain the need for more control from the command line? I've always liked the way AmigaOS handles prefs and I like the env/envarchive 'thing' which I think is rather elegant and efficient. Also, why would I want other software to be mucking around with my preferences? Any software mucking around with my preferences gets deleted!

@Matt_H
I didn't know about the SKIPWBSTARTUP feature in 3.5 and 3.9. I wonder why they called it SKIP instead of NO though.
 

Offline paul1981

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #103 on: September 06, 2019, 09:15:36 PM »
Seeing that there will be Workbench screen title bar customization, is there any small changes that could be done to the Drawer window title bar as well?

For example, instead of "Commodities" in title bar, maybe could add "Commodities in Workbench:"   This has always been a limitation when I'm trying to browse and I may have 2 drawer windows open with same name from different volumes and can't tell which is which.   Full path would be ideal but maybe too much text...

Not exactly what you've asked for, but have you tried DepthMenu with the Workbench module installed? This really helps with window and screen navigation to the point where you can't imagine your Amiga without it.

http://aminet.net/package/util/cdity/DepthMenu
http://aminet.net/package/util/cdity/DM_Workbench

It's so good I believe this should be part of the OS, or at least everyone should install it.

There's more modules and this one is of interest:
http://aminet.net/package/util/cdity/DM_MinMax

It's good also, but the control should be on the window zip button not depth. So personally I just have the Workbench module installed.
 

Offline kolla

Re: Os 3.2 development preview
« Reply #104 on: September 06, 2019, 09:41:06 PM »
Presets can already be loaded via scripts.
Yes, and then you need to have them available. Meaning you have to enter whatever prefs program, set parameters and save to file all possible settings you may wish to have available.

Quote
Can you explain the need for more control from the command line?

Sure.

* different palette settings depending on what daylight there is, with darker settings at night - currently I do this by juggling preset files, I would prefer to send RGB values regarding the various pens directly.
* sounds prefs, audio bell - I wish to control at least the volume without having one setting file per possible volume setting.
* ASL prefs - depending on context, I want to control how ASL requesters sort files so I don't have to do it manually every time
* screenmode/overscan - I want to control certain screen properties.. width, height, depth.. in one go, without needing to keep dozens of preset files around
* serial - I wish to easily change properties like baud rate from CLI/ARexx, as AUX:, SER: etc. AFAIK do not have parameters for such.
  (Yes, I know there are options, like using http://aminet.net/package/util/libs/DigNet)

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I've always liked the way AmigaOS handles prefs and I like the env/envarchive 'thing' which I think is rather elegant and efficient.

Me too.

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Also, why would I want other software to be mucking around with my preferences? Any software mucking around with my preferences gets deleted!

I don't know where you get this from, I am talking about the user - me - being able to control the preferences of my computer from my preferred user interface. There is nothing that prevents programs from mucking with your preferences already.
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