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AuthorTopic: need help my A4000 won't start with new A4000 ATX PSU adapter  (Read 1233 times)

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Offline F1Lupo

So wanting to replace my old and trusty original A4000 PSU with A4000 ATX PSU power adapter I purchased a micro-ATX psu that fits nicely into the A4000 PSU chasis BUT....

1-tried connecting micro-ATX and nothing..PSU not starting at all nor A4000 so tried another full size ATX PSU and same thing
2- contacted Amigakit and they told me it was some 'sense' thing with newer PSU's but I had my suspicions
3- tried starting the PSU without connecting to A4000 and voila PSU started up no problem with following voltage readings:
 
Grey -+5.21v
Blue--11.32v
Yellow-+ 12.14v
Red-+5.23v
4- let Amigakit know and they said these readings were fine and adapter was working ok but offered no help as to why it wasn't powering on my A4000

So long story over I turn this mystery over to my fellow amigans and hopefully I'm not the only one in the world this has happened too?&^! :-D  :-P ..how come this kinda luck never happens when I buy a lottery ticket  ;-)  :roll:
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 05:27:22 AM by F1Lupo »
____________________________________________________________________
c64-dual sids, A1000, A1200-060@50, A4000-CSMKIII
Indivision AGA & Catweasel MK4+= Amazing
! My Master Miggies-Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
--- www.mancave-ramblings.blogspot.ca ---
  -AspireOS.com & Amikit- Amiga for your netbook-
***X1000- I BELIEVE *** :angel:
 

Offline outlawal2

Re: need help my A4000 won't start with new A4000 ATX PSU adapter
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2019, 09:03:42 PM »
Interesting as I had the same thing happen when I used one of their adaptors on my A3000.  Unfortunately, not only did it not work, but now when I plug in the OLD working original adaptor my 3000 will not boot with that one either.
Dead in the water and I don't know why. (And yes it worked just fine until I tried the adaptor.)

So not sure if the adaptor was the issue or the power supply I tried but one of the 2 appears to have blown my 3000 and I am quite sad...

 :-[
 

Offline Vlabguy1

Re: need help my A4000 won't start with new A4000 ATX PSU adapter
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2019, 04:27:41 PM »
Fingers crossed all works out and the A4000 isn’t toasted.
 

Offline Amiwest

Re: need help my A4000 won't start with new A4000 ATX PSU adapter
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2019, 08:27:00 PM »

http://ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/Amiga_Power_supplies/amiga_power_supplies.html#ATXPSU

Has good info on power supplies.

My A4000 with original PS has a tick signal out. I do not know if J104 selects this as external cpu signal or not.
I would check this jumper to see if it is set to internal.
 

Offline Darin

Re: need help my A4000 won't start with new A4000 ATX PSU adapter
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2019, 06:45:53 PM »
So wanting to replace my old and trusty original A4000 PSU with A4000 ATX PSU power adapter I purchased a micro-ATX psu that fits nicely into the A4000 PSU chasis BUT....

1-tried connecting micro-ATX and nothing..PSU not starting at all nor A4000 so tried another full size ATX PSU and same thing
2- contacted Amigakit and they told me it was some 'sense' thing with newer PSU's but I had my suspicions
3- tried starting the PSU without connecting to A4000 and voila PSU started up no problem with following voltage readings:
 
Grey -+5.21v
Blue--11.32v
Yellow-+ 12.14v
Red-+5.23v
4- let Amigakit know and they said these readings were fine and adapter was working ok but offered no help as to why it wasn't powering on my A4000

So long story over I turn this mystery over to my fellow amigans and hopefully I'm not the only one in the world this has happened too?&^! :-D  :-P ..how come this kinda luck never happens when I buy a lottery ticket  ;-)  :roll:

Some new ATX PSU's do have the feature where they won't start if there is no current draw on the correct line, the sense line.  But I don't think this is the problem you're running into.  Does your A4000 still start up with the old PSU?  The voltage you're getting on the blue wire does seem a little low.  A problem some people run into is that some ATX PSU's don't allow for the enough current draw and will shutdown if there is more current draw than the PSU wants.  Older machines, Amiga's included, do require more current than some new ATX PSU will provide.

Offline Darin

Re: need help my A4000 won't start with new A4000 ATX PSU adapter
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2019, 06:54:13 PM »
Interesting as I had the same thing happen when I used one of their adaptors on my A3000.  Unfortunately, not only did it not work, but now when I plug in the OLD working original adaptor my 3000 will not boot with that one either.
Dead in the water and I don't know why. (And yes it worked just fine until I tried the adaptor.)

So not sure if the adaptor was the issue or the power supply I tried but one of the 2 appears to have blown my 3000 and I am quite sad...

 :-[

You cannot use the AmigaKit adapter with a modern ATX power supply on an A3000, it won't work.  Modern ATX power supplies do not provide the -5V line that the A3000 requires, and the don't provide the tick signal (though the jumper can be changed to use the internal vsync instead).   I had this confirmed from AmigaKit when I was looking to replace the PSU in one of my A3000's.  I couldn't source a good ATX PSU with the -5V line so I just went with Ian Stedman's ATX adapter, which has been working fine for quite a while now.

Hopefully someone didn't think they could interchange a +5V line for the missing -5V line on the adapter.

 

Offline Darin

Re: need help my A4000 won't start with new A4000 ATX PSU adapter
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2019, 07:01:51 PM »

http://ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/Amiga_Power_supplies/amiga_power_supplies.html#ATXPSU

Has good info on power supplies.

My A4000 with original PS has a tick signal out. I do not know if J104 selects this as external cpu signal or not.
I would check this jumper to see if it is set to internal.

The A4000 PSU doesn't provide a tick signal like with the A2000 and A3000.  The power connector has 6 pins, +5V, -12V, +12V, Power Good, and 2 GND's. 

J104 is the CPU clock source.  This has to be set properly if you have an accelerator card in the CPU slot.

Offline outlawal2

Re: need help my A4000 won't start with new A4000 ATX PSU adapter
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2019, 03:46:45 AM »
Interesting as I had the same thing happen when I used one of their adaptors on my A3000.  Unfortunately, not only did it not work, but now when I plug in the OLD working original adaptor my 3000 will not boot with that one either.
Dead in the water and I don't know why. (And yes it worked just fine until I tried the adaptor.)

So not sure if the adaptor was the issue or the power supply I tried but one of the 2 appears to have blown my 3000 and I am quite sad...

 :-[

You cannot use the AmigaKit adapter with a modern ATX power supply on an A3000, it won't work.  Modern ATX power supplies do not provide the -5V line that the A3000 requires, and the don't provide the tick signal (though the jumper can be changed to use the internal vsync instead).   I had this confirmed from AmigaKit when I was looking to replace the PSU in one of my A3000's.  I couldn't source a good ATX PSU with the -5V line so I just went with Ian Stedman's ATX adapter, which has been working fine for quite a while now.

Hopefully someone didn't think they could interchange a +5V line for the missing -5V line on the adapter.

That is interesting as it was a power adaptor specifically labeled for the 3000..  (Or I wouldn't have bought it)
Here is the link to the Amigakit listing: http://amigakit.amiga.store/product_info.php?products_id=1164

???
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 03:55:34 AM by outlawal2 »
 

Offline F1Lupo

Re: need help my A4000 won't start with new A4000 ATX PSU adapter
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2019, 04:11:50 AM »
Interesting as I had the same thing happen when I used one of their adaptors on my A3000.  Unfortunately, not only did it not work, but now when I plug in the OLD working original adaptor my 3000 will not boot with that one either.
Dead in the water and I don't know why. (And yes it worked just fine until I tried the adaptor.)

So not sure if the adaptor was the issue or the power supply I tried but one of the 2 appears to have blown my 3000 and I am quite sad...

 :-[

You cannot use the AmigaKit adapter with a modern ATX power supply on an A3000, it won't work.  Modern ATX power supplies do not provide the -5V line that the A3000 requires, and the don't provide the tick signal (though the jumper can be changed to use the internal vsync instead).   I had this confirmed from AmigaKit when I was looking to replace the PSU in one of my A3000's.  I couldn't source a good ATX PSU with the -5V line so I just went with Ian Stedman's ATX adapter, which has been working fine for quite a while now.

Hopefully someone didn't think they could interchange a +5V line for the missing -5V line on the adapter.
yup mine thankfully still starts up with original PSU
____________________________________________________________________
c64-dual sids, A1000, A1200-060@50, A4000-CSMKIII
Indivision AGA & Catweasel MK4+= Amazing
! My Master Miggies-Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
--- www.mancave-ramblings.blogspot.ca ---
  -AspireOS.com & Amikit- Amiga for your netbook-
***X1000- I BELIEVE *** :angel:
 

Offline F1Lupo

Re: need help my A4000 won't start with new A4000 ATX PSU adapter
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2019, 04:25:43 AM »

http://ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/Amiga_Power_supplies/amiga_power_supplies.html#ATXPSU

Has good info on power supplies.

My A4000 with original PS has a tick signal out. I do not know if J104 selects this as external cpu signal or not.
I would check this jumper to see if it is set to internal.

The A4000 PSU doesn't provide a tick signal like with the A2000 and A3000.  The power connector has 6 pins, +5V, -12V, +12V, Power Good, and 2 GND's. 

J104 is the CPU clock source.  This has to be set properly if you have an accelerator card in the CPU slot.
I've got a CSMKIII in my A4000 so I'm assuming that J104 jumper is properly set as she's been working great up to this power adapter issue
____________________________________________________________________
c64-dual sids, A1000, A1200-060@50, A4000-CSMKIII
Indivision AGA & Catweasel MK4+= Amazing
! My Master Miggies-Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
--- www.mancave-ramblings.blogspot.ca ---
  -AspireOS.com & Amikit- Amiga for your netbook-
***X1000- I BELIEVE *** :angel:
 

Offline Darin

Re: need help my A4000 won't start with new A4000 ATX PSU adapter
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2019, 04:46:48 AM »
Interesting as I had the same thing happen when I used one of their adaptors on my A3000.  Unfortunately, not only did it not work, but now when I plug in the OLD working original adaptor my 3000 will not boot with that one either.
Dead in the water and I don't know why. (And yes it worked just fine until I tried the adaptor.)

So not sure if the adaptor was the issue or the power supply I tried but one of the 2 appears to have blown my 3000 and I am quite sad...

 :-[

You cannot use the AmigaKit adapter with a modern ATX power supply on an A3000, it won't work.  Modern ATX power supplies do not provide the -5V line that the A3000 requires, and the don't provide the tick signal (though the jumper can be changed to use the internal vsync instead).   I had this confirmed from AmigaKit when I was looking to replace the PSU in one of my A3000's.  I couldn't source a good ATX PSU with the -5V line so I just went with Ian Stedman's ATX adapter, which has been working fine for quite a while now.

Hopefully someone didn't think they could interchange a +5V line for the missing -5V line on the adapter.

That is interesting as it was a power adaptor specifically labeled for the 3000..  (Or I wouldn't have bought it)
Here is the link to the Amigakit listing: http://amigakit.amiga.store/product_info.php?products_id=1164

???

Yes, I know, I have the same adapter here that I bought from AmigaKit.  It's specific in that the motherboard connector is for the 3000.  When I was confirming the voltage outputs on the connector before I plugged it in, I noticed there was no connection for the -5v pin. I emailed AmigaKit and they confirmed to me that 1) -5v is required and 2) modern ATX power supplies no longer include the -5v line and I should try to find an older ATX power supply that did include the -5v line.  I did find some old ATX power supplies that did have the -5v line from the late 90's and early 2000's, but most of the voltages weren't in spec any longer.  If you check the pin out for an ATX connector to the lines on the connector on your power supply, you'll notice there is no line for where the -5v pin should be. 
 

Offline Darin

Re: need help my A4000 won't start with new A4000 ATX PSU adapter
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2019, 04:53:20 AM »
As a general good suggestion that was passed down to me.  Always, always test the voltages on the motherboard power connector before plugging it in to your Amiga to make sure the right voltages are on the right pin.
 

Offline outlawal2

Re: need help my A4000 won't start with new A4000 ATX PSU adapter
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2019, 04:19:21 PM »

Well that is great information and would have been real nice to have that BEFORE I bought an adaptor that supposedly could be used with modern ATX power supplies.
Rather pissed that Amigakit sells these doorstops without providing the correct information.  Especially when they clearly are aware of the issue in the first place!

AMIGAKIT:   Not real impressed   >:(

 

Offline Darin

Re: need help my A4000 won't start with new A4000 ATX PSU adapter
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2019, 05:02:12 PM »
Yeah, it would be nice if they added to the product page something that says an ATX power supply with a -5V line is needed.   Internally the ATX power supplies have the -5V available, they just don't run the line to the connector any longer as PC motherboards don't use -5V.

A couple things I would try.  Test the pin voltages on the adapter to see what ones match the A3000 power spec by comparing to the original A3000 power supply connector voltages.  Especially what comes out of the -5V pin on the adpater. 

Amiga pin # Description
1                  +VID (this should be +5V)
2                  +5V
3                  +5V
4                  +5V
5                  No connect (or IIRC the A3000 PSU has +5V here, at least it was on mine)
6                  Gnd
7                  Gnd
8                  Gnd
9                  Gnd
10                Gnd
11                -5V
12                +5V_USER
13                TICK
14                -12V
15                +12V
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 05:26:15 PM by Darin »
 

Offline Darin

Re: need help my A4000 won't start with new A4000 ATX PSU adapter
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2019, 05:29:04 PM »

yup mine thankfully still starts up with original PSU


Oh, that's good!   I would try to find an ATX power supply where the blue line for -12V is more in the range of -11.8V to -12.2V.  The -11.32V your getting there may be too low for your A4000.