Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Amiga Kit Amiga Store Iridium Banner AMIStore App Store A1200/A600 4xIDE Interface

AuthorTopic: C-A Acquisition Corp. vs. Hyperion Ent.  (Read 5335 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline kolla

Re: C-A Acquisition Corp. vs. Hyperion Ent.
« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2019, 10:04:02 AM »
Of course he isn't saying that. It would remain part of the OS. I don't own the rights to ReAction.
It was never really part of the OS, it was always an additional package on top of the OS. I say that as someone who has been running OS3.9 without Reaction on 68000 systems for more than a decade. And from what I have read so far, even 3.2 will work perfectly fine without Reaction classes. Reaction is what people find “bloated” and “slow” with OS 3.5/3.9.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: C-A Acquisition Corp. vs. Hyperion Ent.
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2019, 10:28:33 AM »
It was never really part of the OS, it was always an additional package on top of the OS. I say that as someone who has been running OS3.9 without Reaction on 68000 systems for more than a decade. And from what I have read so far, even 3.2 will work perfectly fine without Reaction classes. Reaction is what people find “bloated” and “slow” with OS 3.5/3.9.
Err, what? So how is the palette preferences going to work without the color wheel gadget and the gradient slider gadget? How is the datatypes system to work without them? How is the icon editor to work? Just in case you confuse something: "Reaction" is not a "new subsystem" of the operating system at all, it is not isolated, and you cannot draw a line between "here reaction starts and here the os ends". It is all the same system to begin with, and "Reaction" does not invent anything anew. It is called "boopsis" and is part of intuition.

That is quite different from MUI, for example, which has its own system library, which loads its own components, and builds its own GUI based on its own logic and its own dispatchers. MUI reinvents the wheel. Boopsis don't.

What we call "Reaction" these days are just a collection of boopsi classes that use the intuition boopsi interface along with the exec library interface. There is no technical difference between the boopsis that came into the Os at CBM times, and those that arrived later and were implemented by Chris Aldi. Quite unlike MUI, it does not reinvent anything at Os level, just uses all the interfaces that are already present.

Why you want to draw a line between the original CBM boopsis and the boopsis provided by Chris (originally) and which were then further developed by multiple parties is beyond me.

You may want to argue that boopsis in general are too heavy weight for low end machines, mostly due to their "smalltalk" like dispatcher mechansim which goes through many indirection levels. That is certainly true, and one of the reasons why the GUI for 3.2 is based on an extended (scalable) gadtools version that uses boopsis only occasionally, but it still means that this gadtools interface uses boopsis (or "reaction" - there is not really a difference despite the name) after all where practible. In fact, as I already mentioned, this happened in 3.1 already. The colorwheel, the gradient slider, even the sketch pad of the icon editor and the pointer preferences: All these are boopsis. Or "reaction". No matter what you name them, it's all the same.

I would be just mad to ignore such contributions and leave them aside just for the name part, which is - as said - purely artificial.
 

Offline CBH

Re: C-A Acquisition Corp. vs. Hyperion Ent.
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2019, 02:31:49 PM »
Nobody status? What is this kind of argument?
Do you know what he does and what he did in the past?

I don't really understand these kind of extremist view on things. It is okay that you love Cloanto products, go buy them, and cheer for them, and let the rest do whatever they like and think differently. How can you call another human being like that because he chose to have an opposing view?

Minuous has been a long contributor to the Amiga community in general, supporting different OSes and architectures.

And not only that, he is the person who took the daunting task of porting back ReAction from PPC to 68k, and fixed a lot of bugs down the road, and optimized it in such a way that now works on a 68000 processor. And he started doing this alone, later we all jumped in to help him in the way each of us could.

If it was not for him, AmigaOS 3.2 would not have ReAction included.

He is a truly talented developer. We are fortunate to have him working on AmigaOS.

The extremist view is to see myself call someone who's swinging his willy around a nobody, and then assume I must be some big cloanto fan. You've got "Us vs Them" tribal mentality, which is ridiculous in software development. The only time "us vs them" is useful is class politics.

I can call him a nobody very easily because it's an accurate and fair response to what he said. He said if Cloanto gets in control of OS3 development he'll take his ball and go home, when his ball is not very important.

Let's be honest, his ball sucks. It's reaction, a package of boopsi classes who's inclusion does little more than use disk space. What uses it outside of the 3.9 prefs, uh... Aweb? Can't think of anything else.
 

Offline Minuous

Re: C-A Acquisition Corp. vs. Hyperion Ent.
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2019, 03:35:10 PM »
Why should I work for free to help make profits for a company I dislike? That would not make sense.

BOOPSI gadgets are the way forward intended by Commodore. The amount of disk space used by the BOOPSI classes is minimal, it all fits on one floppy with room to spare. The alternatives are GadTools which is very limited or hack jobs like MUI.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 03:38:35 PM by Minuous »
 

Offline TribbleSmasher

Re: C-A Acquisition Corp. vs. Hyperion Ent.
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2019, 03:44:48 PM »
Gadtools only lacks a little bit of layout/grouping.
 

Offline kolla

Re: C-A Acquisition Corp. vs. Hyperion Ent.
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2019, 03:56:04 PM »
I know perfectly well that Reaction is little more than a collection of third party boopsi classes, previously known as ClassAct, this is all well known. Bundling them with the OS doesn’t really change this much. The more you bundle into the OS, the more you need to coordinate, and the slower everything will go - this exactly the problem that OS4 has been struggling with, and now this mess is brought to OS3 as well.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Gulliver

Re: C-A Acquisition Corp. vs. Hyperion Ent.
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2019, 04:04:54 PM »
The extremist view is to see myself call someone who's swinging his willy around a nobody, and then assume I must be some big cloanto fan.

You call someone "nobody" because he has an opposing view to yours and takes a personal stand for it. You are willing to humillate this person. That displays some kind of unique devotion. You called it fanatism, not me.

You've got "Us vs Them" tribal mentality, which is ridiculous in software development. The only time "us vs them" is useful is class politics.

Not at all. In fact, I have a different opinion than both Minuous and you. But I can certainly respect the choice you both made without any effort.

I can call him a nobody very easily because it's an accurate and fair response to what he said.

That is where I see a problem. You should not justify that.

He said if Cloanto gets in control of OS3 development he'll take his ball and go home, when his ball is not very important.

Well, he can certainly choose the path he wishes, and you can also think of it the way you want.
 

Offline kolla

Re: C-A Acquisition Corp. vs. Hyperion Ent.
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2019, 04:29:16 PM »
@Gulliver
Oh please, it’s Minuous, he will not go anywhere. Cloanto winning in court will not stop him, instead he will go back to “boingbagging” his so called unofficial updates, hacks and patches. As will you. And Cloanto will do exactly nothing to stop him, or you.

Unlike Hyperion.

Which is the point.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: C-A Acquisition Corp. vs. Hyperion Ent.
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2019, 04:39:03 PM »
Unlike Hyperion.
Err, whom is Hyperion exactly stopping? In case you didn't notice, he's working on the Os. And many others. Amongst them me. I certainly don't feel "stopped" by anyone.

So nobody is stopping anyone.  The only one who is stopping you is yourself.

Have you ever considered that Hyperion  requires you to sign contracts for a reason? Could you consider that the same reasons also apply to Cloanto?
 

Offline CBH

Re: C-A Acquisition Corp. vs. Hyperion Ent.
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2019, 05:19:35 PM »
Why should I work for free to help make profits for a company I dislike? That would not make sense.

Cloanto pays it's developers. Why do you work to make profits for a company that doesn't?

It seems very strange to me - I understand wanting to contribute to a volunteer software project, a free software project, for free, but this is not one. Hyperion is a business not a charity, AmigaOS is a product it sells to make a profit. Your hard work makes someone else money, and you get nothing of it.

I wouldn't like a company that does that to me as a worker, and as an employer I recognize that people's work deserves compensation, they are not slaves or mugs to be taken advantage of. But Hyperion has never been a business with any commitment to ethics.

You call someone "nobody" because he has an opposing view to yours and takes a personal stand for it. You are willing to humillate this person. That displays some kind of unique devotion. You called it fanatism, not me.

Not at all. In fact, I have a different opinion than both Minuous and you. But I can certainly respect the choice you both made without any effort.

That is where I see a problem. You should not justify that.

Well, he can certainly choose the path he wishes, and you can also think of it the way you want.

No, I call him a nobody because he made a noise that is bigger than he can justify with his status.  In England we call that kind of person Ronnie Pickering.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 05:23:56 PM by CBH »
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: C-A Acquisition Corp. vs. Hyperion Ent.
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2019, 08:49:13 PM »
No, I call him a nobody because he made a noise that is bigger than he can justify with his status.  In England we call that kind of person Ronnie Pickering.
Who is bigger? Those who blame, or those that do?
 

Offline CBH

Re: C-A Acquisition Corp. vs. Hyperion Ent.
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2019, 09:29:56 PM »
I'm not particularly concerned about being a nobody myself, on account of I don't walk around threatening to withdraw the world's smallest contribution to anything in the entire history of human endeavour.

My advice from a nobody to another nobody is simple: if you want to threaten to take your ball home, make sure people actually want to play with it in the first place. We can all already download classact for free, for the one program that needs it.

« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 09:33:26 PM by CBH »
 

Offline Gulliver

Re: C-A Acquisition Corp. vs. Hyperion Ent.
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2019, 09:59:00 PM »
I'm not particularly concerned about being a nobody myself, on account of I don't walk around threatening to withdraw the world's smallest contribution to anything in the entire history of human endeavour.

How you label yourself or conduct in life is your own choice, an that should not be enforced upon others.

My advice from a nobody to another nobody is simple: if you want to threaten to take your ball home, make sure people actually want to play with it in the first place. We can all already download classact for free, for the one program that needs it.

You treated a person in a bad way, and if that was not enough you justify it and repeat it all over again.
 

Offline kolla

Re: C-A Acquisition Corp. vs. Hyperion Ent.
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2019, 10:43:22 PM »
And Minious has been treating people badly for years... decades...
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM460 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Minuous

Re: C-A Acquisition Corp. vs. Hyperion Ent.
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2019, 11:09:35 PM »
@CBH:

Please don't mischaracterize what I said; there is a difference between continuing to make further contributions and withdrawing existing contributions, and I never said anything about the latter.

@kolla:

Treating who badly how? When I disagree about I try to stick to the issues rather than launch personal attacks, unlike yourself. You've already been banned at other sites for such.