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AuthorTopic: Any interest in a crowdfunding for a WebKit based browser for OS4?  (Read 5576 times)

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Offline kreciu

Re: Any interest in a crowdfunding for a WebKit based browser for OS4?
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2018, 05:27:15 PM »
a) NinjaCyborg is just trolling for lulz

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Offline NinjaCyborg

Re: Any interest in a crowdfunding for a WebKit based browser for OS4?
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2018, 05:28:42 PM »
I see a few possibilities here:

a) NinjaCyborg is just trolling for lulz

b) he hasn't done his homework in terms of what is available already, what would be needed and what wanted

c) he has done his homework and came to the conclusion that the crowd around here is gullible enough and rife for another picking

Go **** yourself
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 06:16:37 PM by amigakit »
 

Offline NinjaCyborg

Re: Any interest in a crowdfunding for a WebKit based browser for OS4?
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2018, 05:33:50 PM »
1) The WebKit team I work with maintains the PlayStation webkit port for all their consoles
2) I ported Python to Amiga in the distant past and to Symbian OS
3) I worked many years at Symbian and know a lot about operating systems development, managing big software projects and porting browsers like Opera and WebKit to obscure systems. I've worked for some of the biggest names and run some of the world's most popular websites.
4) I have a strong fondness for the Amiga despite having been off the scene for over 15 years

However, if this is the reaction from Amiga community to having nice things, you can go **** yourselves
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 06:18:39 PM by amigakit »
 

Offline nbache

Re: Any interest in a crowdfunding for a WebKit based browser for OS4?
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2018, 05:43:27 PM »
also, why not simply help with updating odyssey to latest webkit engine. what might not be a trivial task, considering apparent endiannes issues becoming more problematic in later versions.
This sounds like a good idea, not least because of this slightly worrying statement in a previous post:

Quote from: NinjaCyborg
there is Amiga (and even 68k assembler) knowledge, albeit not up to date
Coding for OS4 is quite different from what it sounds like they have done for 68k Amigas in the past. Hopefully dealing with the Odyssey code can at least teach some of the best practices of today (although it may not be the optimal teaching tool, being ported from MorphOS, but at least better than old memories of 68k assembler coding on classic systems).

Best regards,

Niels
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: Any interest in a crowdfunding for a WebKit based browser for OS4?
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2018, 05:48:52 PM »
@NinjaCyborg

well you will need to grow some skin if you seriously want to deliver something.

the community has become wary being scammed for money in the past and being exposed to grandeur propositions on subject like this.

i dont think im going to participate in any crowdfunding especially in five digits figure, but i think i have asked some valid and constructive questions before.

despite not being a coder im working myself on an update to odyssey (webkit) and maintain a repository (fork of deadwoods sources). my source currently compiles for i386, ppc and m68k and has been tested working on i386. the other targets need to be debugged. then we might be talking about updating the webkit core, if experienced people help, that is.

@nbache

you certainly have had opportunity to see odyssey os4 code base. but in case you want to join in, there is a slack community working to deliver different projects to widest possible amiga(ng) platforms. among others there are people working on odyssey, either there or on new aros-exec.

https://amigaports.slack.com
https://ae.amigalife.org/index.php?topic=35.0

repos:
https://github.com/deadwood-pl/OdysseyWebBrowser
https://github.com/wawatok/OdysseyWebBrowser
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 05:56:51 PM by wawrzon »
 

Offline NinjaCyborg

Re: Any interest in a crowdfunding for a WebKit based browser for OS4?
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2018, 06:02:09 PM »
@wawrzon Nobody is asking for any money now, I just answered realistically to a question about what the budget would need to be. Perhaps you all don't understand how crowdfunding works, but no one person is going to be asked for five figures. If there were 5000 active amigaos4 users, who all paid $10, that would go a long way to getting professionals involved, not the amateurs you've had in recent years. And these are professionals - they write the YouTube, Hulu, iPlayer and countless other web and VOD apps you have on your PS3, 4 and Vita.

As for OWB, it's wildly out of date. The point is to give you all the ability to run html5, google docs, office365, gmail and even write new apps using an amiga version of Electron.

But hey, if you guys don't want it, that's fine, that's the message I'm getting from the market research I'm doing here. You'd all rather just snipe at each other.
 

Offline virgolamobile

Re: Any interest in a crowdfunding for a WebKit based browser for OS4?
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2018, 07:40:29 PM »
@NinjaCyborg

In the Amiga community we would ALL love to see what you are here proposing, that's for sure.

It looks strange to me that after few positive answers, it was enough having one skeptical answer and you simply seems to giving up on your "market research", assuming that "you all don't understand how crowdfunding works". Your attitude and sentences do not put potential donors on your side, that's for sure, at least that's what I feel reading this thread.

We had in the past not one, but various attempts of people trying to get money for exactly what you are proposing without delivering *anything* useful. People are sick and tired of of loosing money on poorly managed projects. For example you may start providing some proofs of what you are telling us on your reply #17.

In the end, please, if you are serious about what you are proposing, this community is willing to support the effort, but you should provide more details, and breath a bit more before answering.
 

Offline TribbleSmasher

Re: Any interest in a crowdfunding for a WebKit based browser for OS4?
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2018, 08:53:24 PM »
@NinjaCyborg
I share this opinion. Telling us you are a group of qualified devs doesn't make me pull out my wallet.
compile a 'working' browser GUI for AmigaOS should not take more than a couple of hours, put it on te table. ;)

Then we talk.
 

Offline NinjaCyborg

Re: Any interest in a crowdfunding for a WebKit based browser for OS4?
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2018, 09:28:04 PM »
No one is asking for any money before proof of capability. What is wrong with you people?
 

Offline TribbleSmasher

Re: Any interest in a crowdfunding for a WebKit based browser for OS4?
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2018, 09:33:55 PM »
Once bitten, twice shy?

Oh, of course the answer to your initial question is yes, there is interest.
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: Any interest in a crowdfunding for a WebKit based browser for OS4?
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2018, 09:40:14 PM »
@wawrzon Nobody is asking for any money now, I just answered realistically to a question about what the budget would need to be. Perhaps you all don't understand how crowdfunding works, but no one person is going to be asked for five figures. If there were 5000 active amigaos4 users, who all paid $10, that would go a long way to getting professionals involved, not the amateurs you've had in recent years. And these are professionals - they write the YouTube, Hulu, iPlayer and countless other web and VOD apps you have on your PS3, 4 and Vita.

As for OWB, it's wildly out of date. The point is to give you all the ability to run html5, google docs, office365, gmail and even write new apps using an amiga version of Electron.

But hey, if you guys don't want it, that's fine, that's the message I'm getting from the market research I'm doing here. You'd all rather just snipe at each other.

Don't take the earlier comments personally.  They're just still a bit angry over the TimberWolf/Firefox debacle.  There was a crowd funded effort to port FireFox to OS4 a few years ago and the programmers (the infamous Frieden brothers) promised to release their code as open source once they were fully funded and finished with the project.  It took them over 2 years and what they produced was a steaming pile.  And then it was another 2-3 years before they even released the sources, without any make files or other supporting libraries or documentation.  So no one could even pick up where they left off.  TimberWolf was extremely buggy and crash prone and later OS4 updates kept many users from even being able to run TimberWolf whatsoever.

The earlier smart-alec comments were probably made because they assumed you know about the entire fiasco that was TimberWolf.
 

Offline F1Lupo

Re: Any interest in a crowdfunding for a WebKit based browser for OS4?
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2018, 09:51:51 PM »
I'm definitely in if we find the right group to take on the task!
Yes I happily donated to the TimberWolf bounty years ago and was happy to use Timberwolf with all the add-ons for a few years fine before Update 1 came out and then it was unusable unfortunately :'( ..the Frieden Bros ended up releasing the source code to the community but nothing has happened for a while with Timberwolf sadly
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Offline wawrzon

Re: Any interest in a crowdfunding for a WebKit based browser for OS4?
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2018, 10:16:42 PM »
unfortunately
@wawrzonif there were 5000 active amigaos4 users
there aint that many. certainly there aint that many donors. you will probably should consider yourself happy if you will find a few hundred donors in the whole amiga community, including all offshoots. thats the reality of the situation.

@ferrellsl
Quote
Don't take the earlier comments personally.  They're just still a bit angry over the TimberWolf/Firefox debacle.
im not angry. i have not even supported this bounty as it was clear to me where it was going from the start with. im just actually trying to provide some context within which such a project could be approached.
 

Offline nbache

Re: Any interest in a crowdfunding for a WebKit based browser for OS4?
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2018, 10:57:51 PM »
@nbacheyou certainly have had opportunity to see odyssey os4 code base.
No, I have never seen it - and probably wouldn't be able to make much with it if I had. I was just using it as a way of stating that a fair bit of knowledge about current best  practices of coding for OS4 would be necessary.

Quote
but in case you want to join in
Wish I could. I have never coded much for AmigaOS, but I have programmed for a living for many years (on other platforms and in other languages than C) and have been a beta tester for OS4 from the start, taking an "academic" interest in what was happening with the system and its API during the last 15 years or so. Having now retired, I do have a dream of one day being able to develop for AmigaOS 4.x, but it would require a long learning path to be able to do it in practice. And at the moment, lots of other projects IRL keep getting in the way.

Best regards,

Niels
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: Any interest in a crowdfunding for a WebKit based browser for OS4?
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2018, 11:04:07 PM »
unfortunately
@wawrzonif there were 5000 active amigaos4 users
there aint that many. certainly there aint that many donors. you will probably should consider yourself happy if you will find a few hundred donors in the whole amiga community, including all offshoots. thats the reality of the situation.

@ferrellsl
Quote
Don't take the earlier comments personally.  They're just still a bit angry over the TimberWolf/Firefox debacle.
im not angry. i have not even supported this bounty as it was clear to me where it was going from the start with. im just actually trying to provide some context within which such a project could be approached.

@wawrzon
My comments were not aimed at you specifically.  I was replying to NinjaCyborg and forgot to put the @NinjaCyborg at the top of my post.  You've done a good job as far as context goes and I agree with you.  And there are others who are rightly cynical when someone out of the blue shows up here and wants to undertake such a huge project via crowd sourcing, and the cynicism showed in their comments.  I was going to write a smart-alec response myself to NinjaCyborg until I noticed how few posts he has made here.

Based on the number of posts by NinjaCyborg when he started this thread (less than 50) one can assume that he's not been actively following such Amiga events as Timberwolf or even OS4 for quite some time, if at all. So I can understand why he got his feelings hurt.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 11:10:08 PM by ferrellsl »