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AuthorTopic: The Os 3.1.4 Thread  (Read 80649 times)

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Offline giZmo350

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2018, 10:46:56 PM »
When might this be available for purchase?  :D
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Offline wawrzon

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2018, 10:57:10 PM »
Quote
I'll probably pick and chose from 3.1.4 components

Quote
so changing some libraries and careful use of the setpatch command should allow anything from 3.14 work perfect with an OS 3.9 install.
that, once assumed 3.1.4 kickstart come in a form that allows he regular user to cherry pick its components, which i doubt, because it would defeat its purpose, both conceptually and commercially.
people are able to manipulate the genuine kickstarts thanks to doobrey tools extracting and compiling in the particular modules, right. but this was a necessary hack, introduced years after they have been abandoned with no further support. if 3.1.4 was intended for the user to be recombined at will it would create support hell without limits.

speaking of dragging windows outside the screen, im wondering why is it so complicated. power windows did that, and very well (i have been using the hack for years). aros is doing it. hell, even os4 is able to do that.. well. that might have been a feature worth an update, while all of them, as far as i read, actually are already covered by hacks and patches.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 10:58:41 PM by wawrzon »
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2018, 11:07:04 PM »
@thor
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Even if Hyperion goes bankrupt, it surely does not affect the software on your system.

i think, what people are wondering about is, why invest so much work for a limited outcome (you call it a bugfix release yourself), one might not be able to build upon any further (due to contractual circumstances). see what (expectably) happened to p96 as example.
thats also probably what amigakit was pointing at. however this exactly is what you (understandably) do not want to discuss here, so consider it an off topic, alright.
 

Offline Gulliver

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2018, 11:19:58 PM »
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I have already performed the 3.9 + 3.1.4 integration several times: It requires some work, but it is not voodoo magic by any means.

Could you tell more about this? This what I'm going todo, so I'm interested.

No problem.  :)

Just give me a day or two, I need to first get back home, and do this procedure all over again, so that I take notes, and dont miss something when retelling it.  ;D
 
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Offline Gulliver

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2018, 11:30:21 PM »
When might this be available for purchase?  :D

Very soon as Thomas has already said.

It really depends on ironing out the last details and see that no other bugs creep out of their caves.  :D

 

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2018, 11:30:50 PM »
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Is it "future proof"? I beg your pardon. Amiga and "future"... If you want a future proof system, buy a PC or a smartphone. Actually, buy a new one every two years. (-:

I meant "future proof" in the sense of being a future proof code base in order to eventually extend the feature set to beyond that of OS3.9. If this is just a perfectionist project with no intention of taking it further and pushing past OS3.9 on 68k then I am not really interested. Perfectionism for perfectionism's sake is a pointless endeavour IMHO. We live in a fallen world and unless clean code actually gives you kicks then efficiency or features is normally the priority not simply eliminating ALL bugs just for the sake of it. AmigaOS is already efficient and features beyond 3.1.4 are available in OS3.9 so good luck to you but I'll be waiting for OS3.2.x before I'm on board.
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Online Thomas Richter

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2018, 06:09:03 AM »
I meant "future proof" in the sense of being a future proof code base in order to eventually extend the feature set to beyond that of OS3.9.
Os4 for classic also exists. Maybe that's more what you want.

How and why exactly should I make promises? I cannot give you any. If the product sells well, it would be fairly stupid not to make another after a while. If it does not sale well, there will not be. As simple as it is.

Will AmigaOs grow out of its legacy and overtake the world of operating sytems? No.

3.1.4 is *not* a revolutionary design, there are no revolutionary ideas in it. If you do not care about fixed bugs, but new features, this is not for you. For a >20 year old system, it is a bit late to care about new features anyhow.

Offline bubbob42

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2018, 03:04:42 PM »
As Thomas said, this product is an upgrade to OS3.1.4, not 3.9, for many reasons. We'll supply a rather lengthy FAQ, which will also cover that topic, so I won't go into detail here.

But I'd like to emphasize one thing: You can spend all day to discuss whether this thing is worth the trouble, waste of time and energy, complain about things OS3.9 did better 18 years ago, etc.. Or not.

What you'll get is what's possible under the circumstances. There has been no alternative, no "better", "future-proof" approach. Lot's of "DOs": We couldn't do more. It was either do or don't. Maybe someone could have done better, but he did not. Let's leave it at that. ;)

So, now you have another *option* to build your own system, nothing more. The glass is half full - why not have a sip? You may even like the taste. :)

 
 
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Offline boemann

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2018, 08:01:06 PM »
Another question (and thanks for the comprehensive answer to my last):  Is stderr redirection fixed ( or should I say implemented) both in the shell but also in dos.library / execute. Because it isn't working in 3.1.
 

Online Thomas Richter

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2018, 08:25:10 PM »
Another question (and thanks for the comprehensive answer to my last):  Is stderr redirection fixed ( or should I say implemented) both in the shell but also in dos.library / execute. Because it isn't working in 3.1.

3.1 never had stderr redirection. 3.9 had, with "*>foo". However, the problem is what programs do about it, because AmigaDos aka Tripos does traditionally not have a stderr stream. This was added somewhere later with v37 or even beyond, but programs had to explicitly write to process->pr_CES, and of course no program did, because it was traditionally not there. Even C standard libraries had not been adapted to make use of it, as far as I recall.

So in that sense, there is really nothing to fix, but that is not the fault of the Os. What *> does is that redirects stderr, and CONSOLE:, but whether that does actually make a difference is anybodies guess. For most programs, the answer is no.

This will not change in 3.1.4, but "simply" because we cannot touch all programs.

 

Offline boemann

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2018, 08:31:53 PM »
well my point is that even pr_CES or the tags for Error was never implemented afaict, so there is actually non functional API in 3.1- hence my question about it being fixed.

I know it's impossible to fix old programs, but first step would be the os actualy allowing it.

Anyway thanks for your answer - I know what to expect now - and still looking forward to buying it
 

Online Thomas Richter

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2018, 08:57:52 PM »
well my point is that even pr_CES or the tags for Error was never implemented afaict, so there is actually non functional API in 3.1- hence my question about it being fixed.
Well, please define "implemented". Yes, pr_CES is of course "implemented". It sits there, waiting to be used. I can ensure you that the shell also fills it if you redirect stderr with *>, but that doesn't help if programs do not pick it up. We cannot fix that, of course.

If the question is: Did we actually touch dos.library? No, not this time. We already attacked one dragon in 3.1.4. (which is graphics, now at 45.27), and that is one monster enough for me this time. There is a tiny patch for dos in SetPatch, and quite some improvements in dos handlers, but Tripos itself remained untouched. This time.

Offline Bennymee

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2018, 09:25:02 PM »
There is a lot going on concerning filesystems, harddrives and recovery.
Is there also something planned for the cd-rom driver cdo:  ?

Amiga 500, 1200, 4000, Amigaone, Morphos, CyberstormPPC, Blizzardppc, OS4.x
 

Online Thomas Richter

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2018, 09:38:57 PM »
Is there also something planned for the cd-rom driver cdo:  ?

No, nothing is planned, but a lot is done. CDFS is really all new. Speaks ISO, rockridge, Joliet and UDF, supports audio tracks and is multithreaded. There is no HFS and HFS+ support because the code for that was not in good shape, and there is no CDXL support either because I do not know enough on which of the many CD modes is right for that.

Offline NorthWay

Re: The Os 3.1.4 Thread
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2018, 10:21:32 PM »
One could have hoped the OS included STDIN: STDOUT: and STDERR: (or just IN: OUT: ERR:). Would have been more "Amiga way" to me.