Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Amiga Kit Amiga Store Iridium Banner AMIStore App Store A600 Memory

AuthorTopic: Which type of LCD screen is the best for gaming on the Amiga?  (Read 471 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nick_66

Hi all,

I have an external video convertor (RGB to VGA) for my Amiga and connected an old 4:3 HP LCD monitor to it but the result is dissapointing. Especially scrolling is not as smooth as on my old 1084 monitor. Note, the HP monitor is a standard office desktop monitor.

What kind of LCD monitor is best for gaming on the Amiga?
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: Which type of LCD screen is the best for gaming on the Amiga?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2018, 11:22:41 PM »
Working in IT I have dozens of monitors on my desk at any time. Smooth scrolling seems to be a pretty common complaint. I don't play a lot of games that rely on smooth scrolling (more of an RPG guy, myself), but I would recommend looking for one with a fast refresh, or an ultrasharp model, such as a Dell P-series (Professional) or U-series Ultrasharp model. Preferably one with a native 4:3 or similar aspect ratio (such as 17", 19", and 20" screens).

Of course at home my A500 is hooked up to a 55" TV, so I don't always follow my own advice. ;)
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline LoadWB

Re: Which type of LCD screen is the best for gaming on the Amiga?
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2018, 11:55:27 PM »
My first reaction to the question was "none."  I am hoping to be proven wrong.
 

Offline BLTCON0

Re: Which type of LCD screen is the best for gaming on the Amiga?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2018, 12:51:19 AM »
Quote from: Nick_66;837591
Hi all,

I have an external video convertor (RGB to VGA) for my Amiga and connected an old 4:3 HP LCD monitor to it but the result is dissapointing. Especially scrolling is not as smooth as on my old 1084 monitor. Note, the HP monitor is a standard office desktop monitor.

What kind of LCD monitor is best for gaming on the Amiga?


Short answer: None. Always use a CRT video monitor for smooth scrolling. Even non-video CRT ones aren't as good (e.g. good VGA ones) because they're usually meant to be run at 85-100 hz, so the persistence of their phosphor is lower, giving a more dark/dim image (not always satisfactorily compensated for via the monitor's settings).
An old CGA monitor from the PC world would work OK too.

Now, if you're set on an LCD:

1. You need proper 50 Hz support. That's not optional. So both your scandoubler AND the LCD monitor must PROPERLY support 50 Hz
What is "improper" support of 50 Hz? It's "accept a 50 Hz input but upconvert it to 60 Hz".
A scandoubler might do that to ensure the output always falls in the VESA standards range. Result: Jerkiness
A monitor might do that because its display is fixed for 60 Hz. Result: Jerkiness

2. You need a ridiculously low pixel response time to avoid the inherent ghosting/blurring LCDs exhibit with moving/scrolling images. If we loosely translate PAL blanking time into pixel response time, it's in the 1 ms or lower range. There exist monitors that fast but that's still not ridiculous enough, don't expect CRT perfection. Plus, these monitors are rather new, so there's a big question regarding their 50 hz support. And they're typically wide ones, no 4:3 or 5:4 there.
For the tried and true ones, the 4-5 ms they usually spec for WILL give motion ghosting. My 4 ms LGs certainly show it, especially with moving dithered/highly textured patterns (an LCD screen's worst nightmare).


So:
If your scandoubler can do 1:1, you don't need 15 Khz support from the monitor. Just proper 50 Hz support.
An example I can give is my old LG Flatron L1932P monitors, they do 50 Hz fine but at 4 ms motion is just acceptably clear, not crystal clear as on a video CRT.
If it can't do 1:1, throw it away and either get a better one (for maximum flexibility when picking monitors) or look for monitors that apart from 50 hz vertical they also support 15 Khz horizontal, such as some Benq models (BL702A, BL902A, BL912 IIRC). This wiki has a more extensive list.
 

Offline jj

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 4028
  • Country: wales
  • Total likes: 2
  • Gender: Male
Re: Which type of LCD screen is the best for gaming on the Amiga?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2018, 01:19:18 PM »
Quote from: BLTCON0;837597
Short answer: None. Always use a CRT video monitor for smooth scrolling. Even non-video CRT ones aren't as good (e.g. good VGA ones) because they're usually meant to be run at 85-100 hz, so the persistence of their phosphor is lower, giving a more dark/dim image (not always satisfactorily compensated for via the monitor's settings).
An old CGA monitor from the PC world would work OK too.

Now, if you're set on an LCD:

1. You need proper 50 Hz support. That's not optional. So both your scandoubler AND the LCD monitor must PROPERLY support 50 Hz
What is "improper" support of 50 Hz? It's "accept a 50 Hz input but upconvert it to 60 Hz".
A scandoubler might do that to ensure the output always falls in the VESA standards range. Result: Jerkiness
A monitor might do that because its display is fixed for 60 Hz. Result: Jerkiness

2. You need a ridiculously low pixel response time to avoid the inherent ghosting/blurring LCDs exhibit with moving/scrolling images. If we loosely translate PAL blanking time into pixel response time, it's in the 1 ms or lower range. There exist monitors that fast but that's still not ridiculous enough, don't expect CRT perfection. Plus, these monitors are rather new, so there's a big question regarding their 50 hz support. And they're typically wide ones, no 4:3 or 5:4 there.
For the tried and true ones, the 4-5 ms they usually spec for WILL give motion ghosting. My 4 ms LGs certainly show it, especially with moving dithered/highly textured patterns (an LCD screen's worst nightmare).


So:
If your scandoubler can do 1:1, you don't need 15 Khz support from the monitor. Just proper 50 Hz support.
An example I can give is my old LG Flatron L1932P monitors, they do 50 Hz fine but at 4 ms motion is just acceptably clear, not crystal clear as on a video CRT.
If it can't do 1:1, throw it away and either get a better one (for maximum flexibility when picking monitors) or look for monitors that apart from 50 hz vertical they also support 15 Khz horizontal, such as some Benq models (BL702A, BL902A, BL912 IIRC). This wiki has a more extensive list.


I guess a lot of this is not so much of an issue if your on an NSTC amiga though ?
“We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw

Xbox Live: S0ulA55a551n2
 
Registered MorphsOS 3.10 user on Powerbook G4 15"
 

Offline BLTCON0

Re: Which type of LCD screen is the best for gaming on the Amiga?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2018, 02:46:41 PM »
Quote from: JJ;837629
I guess a lot of this is not so much of an issue if your on an NSTC amiga though ?


Very true (*), since you're already in 60 hz (59.94 actually) territory. But the OP is in the Netherlands, so you can safely expect he uses PAL timings.

A small note on PAL and NTSC - since both standards are about video timing AND colour/audio encoding, but the Amiga doesn't use the colour/audio encoding part save in an RF modulator (it normally uses standard RGB output), it's slightly inaccurate to dub them "PAL Amigas" or "NTSC Amigas", these terms should be understood as "PAL-timed Amiga" or "NTSC-timed Amiga".
In fact, with some versions of Agnus able to change their timing scheme, two new modes emerge:
A normally "PAL Amiga" can run as a "nearly NTSC Amiga"
and a normally "NTSC Amiga" can run a "nearly PAL Amiga"

(*) Given therefore that most NTSC video monitors with RGB input (C= ones included) will happily sync down to 50 Hz and perfectly display an RGB signal at that frequency, an "NTSC Amiga" can run in "nearly PAL mode" some PAL-specific games for which an NTSC version was never made. If that is of interest, then proper 50 Hz support becomes relevant even for an "NTSC Amiga".
 

Offline Nick_66

Re: Which type of LCD screen is the best for gaming on the Amiga?
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2019, 08:14:30 PM »
Hi all,

Kinda late with my reaction!

I have a A500plus and A1200 system and for both I bought the Indivision scandoubler. This is kind of a project I am working on. Waiting for my new A500 case and keycaps from A1200 and restore both my Amiga's. Only thing is the monitor. CRT monitors are the best for gaming on the Amiga, but since CRT monitors are getting old and the plastic is yellowing I want to replace them with a good LCD monitor.

I will need a PAL monitor. I checked that Wiki page and it seems that the Acer G276HL is the best, but still cost me more then 200 euros! Are there alternatives with almost the same specs like the Acer and are cheaper?
 

Offline SHADES

Re: Which type of LCD screen is the best for gaming on the Amiga?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2019, 10:29:38 AM »
Any half decent LCD will do.
And one of these.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GBS-8220-CGA-to-VGA-Single-Output-Arcade-Game-HD-Video-Converter-Board/152510535611?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

It's $26 and scan doubles everything you need, just take RGB out of the AMI and this thing.
$10 more gets you HDMI
No need for those insanly expensive AMIGA ones.
It's not the question, that is the problem, it is the problem, that is the question.