Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Amiga Kit Amiga Store Iridium Banner AMIStore App Store A600 Memory

AuthorTopic: Why didn't more games use the keyboard?  (Read 142 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sammyfox

Why didn't more games use the keyboard?
« on: January 25, 2017, 02:16:11 PM »
I tried games like Mortal Kombat (both of them) on my amiga and I can't believe people tolerated such butchered and limited controls back then. Was there a technical barrier to using keyboard controls like on PCs? (on msdos I liked to use a ASZXQ and arrows scheme that is basically an inverted snes pad layout)
 

Offline Iggy

Re: Why didn't more games use the keyboard?
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2017, 02:22:43 PM »
Personally, I only favor this when its an option, not a default.
Although I can see the reasoning behind it for a game like Mortal Kombat where having several keys assigned to different tasks would useful.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Why didn't more games use the keyboard?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2017, 05:58:32 PM »
Fighting games are horrible with a keyboard. They're one of very few cases where keyboards don't work well.
 

Offline LuigiThirty

Re: Why didn't more games use the keyboard?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2017, 07:49:52 PM »
I know it's more annoying to read the keyboard using hardware on an Amiga (which involves manually pulsing the keyboard communication line to clock in scan codes) than it is on the PC which just stores key presses until a program reads them.
 

Offline JimmiG

Re: Why didn't more games use the keyboard?
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2017, 09:28:35 AM »
It seems joysticks were always the most natural device for playing games on Amiga. Maybe it's because many still hooked up their Amiga to their TV, just like the C64 and NES, rather than using a proper desk and monitor? With a joystick (or gamepad), you can sit comfortably in a couch/chair, even when the computer itself is on the floor in front of the TV.
 

Offline darkage

Re: Why didn't more games use the keyboard?
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2017, 10:10:52 AM »
Quote from: JimmiG;821254
It seems joysticks were always the most natural device for playing games on Amiga. .


yep especially when the machine was mainly marketed as a games machine.    I only remembered using the keyboard when I didnt have joysticks or later on when playing something like Leisure Suit Larry.
 

Offline JimmiG

Re: Why didn't more games use the keyboard?
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2017, 10:48:21 AM »
Quote from: darkage;821258
yep especially when the machine was mainly marketed as a games machine.    I only remembered using the keyboard when I didnt have joysticks or later on when playing something like Leisure Suit Larry.


True, but PC gamers scoff at controllers and consider keyboard and mouse the only way to play games. There are lots of "gaming keyboards" and mice being marketed as well. It's kind of weird that joysticks were the de-facto control scheme on Amiga.
 

Offline darkage

Re: Why didn't more games use the keyboard?
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2017, 10:52:18 AM »
Quote from: JimmiG;821261
True, but PC gamers scoff at controllers and consider keyboard and mouse the only way to play games. There are lots of "gaming keyboards" and mice being marketed as well. It's kind of weird that joysticks were the de-facto control scheme on Amiga.


Yep I remember all my PC friends using pretty much keyboard only.    When they did have a joystick it would be a analog one that you had to calibrate first.
 

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: Why didn't more games use the keyboard?
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2017, 01:21:33 PM »
I reckon the games which forced you to use the keyboard most on an Amiga were flight sims. Tornado ADV was certainly overboard in that respect. Had some nice detailed scenes in it too. I guess most 3D games had something to show, and they mostly used analogue joysticks as well as mouse.

Some had rudder foot controls mapped to a joystick, so you could use foot controls.

But yeah, I think the Amiga... was just terrible for letting you remap controls. Not very reliable if most people are booting from floppies, that was the issue.

If the controls are all hard set, that saves resources. Times were hard back then, resources and time spent faffing around with floppy disks just stopped you playing the game at all. Keyboard remapping has been possible with the OS for a long time, but never with games that ignore the OS. Which is 95% plus of arcade Amiga games. Precious few would go there...
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 6, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Offline Minuous

Re: Why didn't more games use the keyboard?
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2017, 09:30:45 PM »
Quote from: sammyfox;820749
Was there a technical barrier to using keyboard controls like on PCs?


Yes, there are some technical limitations when several keys are being held down. See http://amigadev.elowar.com/read/ADCD_2.1/Hardware_Manual_guide/node019E.html
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 09:33:54 PM by Minuous »
 

Offline BozzerBigD

Re: Why didn't more games use the keyboard?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2017, 12:52:46 AM »
Quote from: sammyfox;820749
I tried games like Mortal Kombat (both of them) on my amiga and I can't believe people tolerated such butchered and limited controls back then. Was there a technical barrier to using keyboard controls like on PCs? (on msdos I liked to use a ASZXQ and arrows scheme that is basically an inverted snes pad layout)

Are you for real? My PC owning 'friends' would attempt to play Mortal Kombat on the PC with an analogue joystick back in the day :laughing:

The only thing the Amiga was missing was CD32 support. 2-button joypad support was present on MK2 which was better than most. Why we had to tolerate pathetic single button fighting games back then I'll never know. The keyboard should not even be considered for fighting games. PC gamers were morons in the early 90s and even preferred Commander Keen to Amiga platformers :lol:
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."

John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios
 

Offline slaapliedje

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 833
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 2
Re: Why didn't more games use the keyboard?
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2017, 04:07:32 AM »
Quote from: Thorham;820758
Fighting games are horrible with a keyboard. They're one of very few cases where keyboards don't work well.

Only exception I can think of to this rule was Karateka.  While not really what most would consider a fighting game toady, it definitely was a predecessor.

The terrible games are the ones that require both a Joystick and a Keyboard...

I can readily think of at least Flashback on the Amiga and Gateway to Apshai on the Atari 8-bit and Xenon 1 on the Atari ST.  Gauntlet (all versions on all platforms with single button joysticks) also had that issue where you had to reach out and press a key for the magic.

I think the main reason PC games mostly used the keyboard is because A) they had a proprietary connector, when back in the day any of the computers used that standard DB9 controller.  That only changed really on the consoles for the NES, and then the Saturn I think was the first Sega system that didn't use DB9 (probably because Atari decided to sue them).  And B) because they were expensive, terrible analog things up until USB arrived.  And of course by that time, people actually WANTED analog controls.

Also, if you think about it, a lot of the 8-bit/16bit era games were either arcade conversions or similar, where of course the joystick was king.  DOS really didn't get a whole lot of the arcade conversions, and usually when they did, they were terrible.

Oh, and the reason for Gaming Keyboards and Mice... I have 14 buttons on my Roccat Tyon (oddly, I don't game that much, but holy crap for production usage it is AWESOME!), and my Roccat Ryos MK Pro is fantastic for gaming because you don't really have to press that hard on a key for it to do something, less input 'lag' I guess you could say since you don't have to slam down the key like you do with a lot of the spongy keyboards out there.  Getting knuckle pain in my old age makes it actually tolerable to type again with mechanical keyboards.
A4000D: Mediator 4000Di; Voodoo 3, ZorRAM 128MB, 10/100mb Ethernet, Spider 2. Cyberstorm PPC 060/50 604e/420.
 

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: Why didn't more games use the keyboard?
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2017, 07:59:38 AM »
Quote from: slaapliedje;821311
... Getting knuckle pain in my old age makes it actually tolerable to type again with mechanical keyboards.

It's a factor, beyond the 30s you really do have to pay attention to early symptons of arthritis. Cod liver oil capsules and similar Omega 3 boosters recommended.

Probably didn't help that I spent a lot of time early on with mechanical typewriters. They hurt at the time, let alone now.:hammer:
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 6, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Offline slaapliedje

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 833
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 2
Re: Why didn't more games use the keyboard?
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2017, 12:42:02 PM »
Good idea, I will have to try that out and see if it helps.  Those mechanical typewriters are murder, that's for sure!
A4000D: Mediator 4000Di; Voodoo 3, ZorRAM 128MB, 10/100mb Ethernet, Spider 2. Cyberstorm PPC 060/50 604e/420.
 

Offline sammyfox

Re: Why didn't more games use the keyboard?
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2017, 12:45:15 PM »
Quote from: Thorham;820758
Fighting games are horrible with a keyboard. They're one of very few cases where keyboards don't work well.


I beg to differ. the MK games always had simple motions for their special moves, like down and forward and such. On a keyboard these are much easier to pull off than say, anything in street fighter.