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AuthorTopic: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"  (Read 13233 times)

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Offline matthey

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2015, 08:03:40 AM »
Quote from: nicholas;797255
Any Amiga program should be using the OS provided Maths libraries anyway Jim so as long as Hyperion provide libs with the same public interfaces but internally using code specific for this weird FPU then most stuff should be OK. Theoretically anyway.


The math libraries are ok for light use of floating point but they are a major bottleneck for heavy floating point use. Modern powerful processors use the FPU (and/or SIMD unit) directly which is much more efficient. It is too bad that what are left of embedded PPC processors have incompatible FPUs. They might as well switch to an incompatible integer unit while they are at it to get some standardization and consistency.
 

Offline BSzili

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2015, 09:32:03 AM »
Quote from: apsturk;797237
Wow,
Does anybody really think Acube and A-Eon are so dumb that they would spend money time and all the rest and not have thought through every bit of what they are doing. They are the only ones that make NG hardware and both have products out and work hard to advance things in that regard. Remember 2 years ago just after Amiewest 2013 they announced a hardware partnership. This is good news all across the board for everyone. So I am one who says GREAT JOB!!! and thanks for all your efforts both Acube and A-Eon. Some on this site should just stop with the I know better than everyone but have no track record to back it up garbage. Thanks again Acube and A-Eon. You build it I and others that really do care about this hobby buy it and everyone wins.  

even the know it all naysayers win but again it is because of the people that spend money and support the work for AmigaNG. If you dont have the money to play in the sand box then get out of it  instead of pissing in it and on the people working in it.


I have spent far FAR more money this year in 2015 by a long shot than it costs to buy a new X1000 in just donations to AmigaNG software and other projects. So keep talking crap as the producers and backers move things forward. How about you put your money in and join us or go find another hobby that like the glass is half empty talk.

I play to win and I will.
I have an A=Eon AmigaOne X1000 and will have a X5000/40 and the new mb from Acube and will keep up with software donations and buy all the new software and spend more of my money. Talk is cheep. My lips don't flap in the wind and I am not cheep.
TL;DR A company making a bad decision? That's completely unheard of! :eek:
I see the jimmies have been rustled.
 

Offline Hattig

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2015, 10:01:58 AM »
The P1022 uses e500v2 series cores.

There are three revisions of the e500 cores: v1, v2 and mc.

v1 and v2 do not support the classical FPU, but the mc does. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC_e500

Wikipedia states: "The P10xx series, P2010 and P2020 are based on the e500v2 core, P204x, P30xx and P40xx on the e500mc core, and P50xx on the e5500 core"

So choosing the P10xx, P201x or P202x would be a worse decision than picking P204x, P30xx, P40xx or P50xx (or even T1). Obviously the IEEE libraries will support things, but software compiled to hit the FPU directly is going to be trapping all over the place, until it's recompiled.

The I/O on a P3 series chip would appear to match the needs of a motherboard better - the 18 SERDES lines means more PCIe, SATA and GigE, whereas the P1022, once you've added 2 SATA, 1 GigE leaves 3 PCIe lanes.

These chips are OLD. We're talking about chips that were on the market five, six years ago. It seems strange to start using them on a new product.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2015, 10:04:13 AM »
Quote
Does anybody really think Acube and A-Eon are so dumb that they would spend money time and all the rest and not have thought through every bit of what they are doing.

perhaps "dumb" is not the right word. but there is a history of questionable decissions. as example the so called minimig+. do i need to dig further?
 

Offline Niding

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2015, 11:47:27 AM »
It would be intresting to hear the decisionprocess when they decided on the CPU, if for no other reason, to get an idea about their future plans.

olegil made a comment on AW "Wouldn't worry much about drivers, the QorIQ peripherals are fairly simple to support.".

And noticed during the interview with one of the Fridens that hes considering Chrome instead of Timberwolf.

Either way, with Cloanto talking/working with Toni with regards to proper PPC emulation, I can see AOS software sales (what there is available) go up a little bit.
Regarding proper PPC emulation; will that tap into MorphOS availability?
Would be intresting if we could install up to date versions of MorphOS/AROS/AOS via Amiga Forever, even if the installer require you to have a registered version inputting your details etc.
 

Offline eliyahu

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2015, 12:48:09 PM »
Quote from: Niding;797269
It would be intresting to hear the decisionprocess when they decided on the CPU, if for no other reason, to get an idea about their future plans.
indeed. there may have been other, non-amiga-related reasons. i guess we just need to wait for the 'official' announcement for the details and why. since this topic has peaked everyone's interest around here, it's one of the questions i'll try and get answered at amiwest.

Quote
Either way, with Cloanto talking/working with Toni with regards to proper PPC emulation, I can see AOS software sales (what there is available) go up a little bit.
Regarding proper PPC emulation; will that tap into MorphOS availability?
Would be intresting if we could install up to date versions of MorphOS/AROS/AOS via Amiga Forever, even if the installer require you to have a registered version inputting your details etc.
i certainly hope so. 'faking' things a little to allow more RAM for the CSPPC than was possible in HW would go a long way. and maybe get support for the UAE RTG driver, or at least artificially increasing the available VRAM on a P-IV card. that'd be terrific.

we already have the ability to run AOS4 and AROS in UAE, which is nice. it would be even nicer to add MOS to that list, especially since one of the devs apparently maintains an internal PUP build.

-- eliyahu
"How do you know I’m mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn’t have come here."
 

Offline Niding

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2015, 01:00:44 PM »
AOS is available via AF/emulation, but like with many things Amiga, it require the enduser to follow long "how to do this step by step" guides that might or might not work.
And without solid prior knowledge about the system(s), its usually not obvious why the guide didnt work. Usually the user did something wrong, but what and how?
AF/Amikit for example; select Download, and then answer yes and upgrade a few times and 3 minutes later you have a pimped out version of Workbench 3.
Personally I wont be deterred by userunfriendly procedures, but not everyone have that attitude, espesially for something they initally just take as their hobby or tour down memorylane of their youth.

Its how AOS PPC installation should be made too. Lately Ive been dabbling with my A1200 both hardware and software. Quite a few programs be it hardware support/drivers throws "require MUI", "missing abcxyz" library or wrong version.
Its quite annoying, but on the flipside, it forces me to re-learn navigating around the system again.
BUT its not really what you want OS wise, even at hobby level, if you want more people to use it. Trevor and others have made it quite clear its a hobby, even a "serious" one.
And the mantra for all OS's is development of software AND being able to actually support the coders with money thru purchases (for Daniel/Daytona that means coffe and sigarette money).
Then the bar of entry needs to be lowered; aka make it easy Amiga Forever style to use any OS.
Make it "plug and play" easy, people might even end up staying ;)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 01:06:15 PM by Niding »
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2015, 01:16:55 PM »
Quote from: Niding;797269
And noticed during the interview with one of the Fridens that hes considering Chrome instead of Timberwolf.

prepare for another bounty porting chrome to os4 in the coming years then.
 

Offline Daytona675x

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2015, 01:19:18 PM »
Nice board, although I don't like the price. It would be fantastic if it would be between 500 and 600 € instead, then it could be the entry system I suppose many of us are waiting for. Nevertheless a step into the right direction IMHO.
AmigaOS 4.1 FE (sam440ep, sam460ex, X5000, Tabor,  R200 / RadeonHD), MorphOS 3.9 (PowerMac G4 733MHz R200), AROS (x86), A1200 (060 80MHz Indivision MK2), A600 Vampire2 / Furia, A500, CDTV
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Offline Iggy

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2015, 01:34:12 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;797273
prepare for another bounty porting chrome to os4 in the coming years then.

Chrome is not open source.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

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"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

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Offline OlafS3

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Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2015, 01:35:44 PM »
Quote from: Daytona675x;797274
Nice board, although I don't like the price. It would be fantastic if it would be between 500 and 600 € instead, then it could be the entry system I suppose many of us are waiting for. Nevertheless a step into the right direction IMHO.

for 500 or 600 EUR you get much better hardware, it is even then vastly overprized. 1.2 Ghz in 2015/2016? It is a option for AmigaOS fans but outside this small circle there will be not much interest.
 

Offline Iggy

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2015, 01:36:39 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;797255
Any Amiga program should be using the OS provided Maths libraries anyway Jim so as long as Hyperion provide libs with the same public interfaces but internally using code specific for this weird FPU then most stuff should be OK. Theoretically anyway.

No few apps are going to bother with math libraries when the instructions can be executed directly.
While I appreciate your intent to reserve judgement, this board holds no interest for me.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2015, 05:25:25 PM »
Quote from: OlafS3;797279
1.2 Ghz in 2015/2016?

Hey now, that's like, cell phone speeds.  ;)

Great to hear about new boards, but more disappointing is the FPU issue.  Hooray more fragmentation in the Amiga market!  :(
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
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Offline matthey

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2015, 06:10:41 PM »
Quote from: Hattig;797263

So choosing the P10xx, P201x or P202x would be a worse decision than picking P204x, P30xx, P40xx or P50xx (or even T1). Obviously the IEEE libraries will support things, but software compiled to hit the FPU directly is going to be trapping all over the place, until it's recompiled.


Trapping direct FPU instructions would be a fraction of the speed of direct FPU support. Using the IEEE math libraries would be much faster (maybe half the speed of direct FPU use). Are developers going to compile for an incompatible FPU? It is sad that A-Eon is this desperate to keep PPC alive and affordable. Now PPC will not only be incompatible with the 68k and Amiga custom chips but also the existing PPC platform. The new board is too weak and incompatible to appeal to the classes and too incompatible and expensive to appeal to the masses. Full speed ahead with incompatible embedded PPC processors though :(.
 

Offline B00tDisk

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Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2015, 06:22:09 PM »
Dammit, I saw "PPC board" and assumed they meant board for an A2000, 3000 or 4000 or even 1200.

tl;dr came here was disappoint
Back away from the EU-SSR!