Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Amiga Kit Amiga Store Hollywood MAL AMIStore App Store A600 Memory

AuthorTopic: Tower 57 Kickstarter - AOS and MorphOS confirmed  (Read 139 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Niding

Tower 57 Kickstarter - AOS and MorphOS confirmed
« on: August 22, 2015, 10:32:18 AM »
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/514621648/tower-57

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/514621648/tower-57/posts/1330913

Today's update shines a light on the biolab, but first a quick announcement for our Amiga-loving backers. We've reached an agreement with a developer to handle the Amiga ports, which means we can now make it an official stretch goal! The mark is set at a low 1.000 Euro (I really want to make it happen so I'll be pitching in some personal funds as a backer of my own project).

The dev who will be handling the port (with my support of course!) in the event that we reach the goal is Daniel 'Daytona675x' Müßener (who is known for coding the NG-Amiga Battle Squadron remake-ports, the Cherry-Darling games and who's currently also working on Warp3D).

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=40477&forum=2#766911

http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7032&forum=11
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 10:39:27 AM by Niding »
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Tower 57 Kickstarter - AOS and MorphOS confirmed
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2015, 10:50:42 AM »
Quote from: Niding;794391
We've reached an agreement with a developer to handle the Amiga ports
Does that mean AGA+68020?
 

Offline Niding

Re: Tower 57 Kickstarter - AOS and MorphOS confirmed
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2015, 10:53:27 AM »
Quote from: Thorham;794392
Does that mean AGA+68020?

Ill let Daniel 'Daytona675x' Müßener answer that since hes the coder responsible for the "amiga" versions, tho considering Cherry Darlings latest games they have been for AOS4 Im just assuming its for the "NG" brand.

That said; I would love to play this game on my A1200/30 too ;)
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Tower 57 Kickstarter - AOS and MorphOS confirmed
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2015, 10:57:32 AM »
Quote from: Niding;794393
I would love to play this game on my A1200/30
Shouldn't be rocket science to get that working properly if written in assembly language from scratch with some reduction in the number of colors used in the graphics. Not going to happen, of course :(
 

Offline Daytona675x

Re: Tower 57 Kickstarter - AOS and MorphOS confirmed
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2015, 11:25:04 AM »
@Thorhan:

sorry, but 020, 030, 0x0-whatever: you must be joking :)

Quote
Shouldn't be rocket science to get that working properly if written in assembly language from scratch with some reduction in the number of colors used in the graphics.
No? Of course that would be rocket science :) No, actually it would be esoteric and no science...
Check out the trailer again and for a start just count the number of simultanously moving objects of some more hefty scenes.
Not to mention that the game's logical playfield resolution is 480 x 270 and other small details like that.

Quote
Not going to happen, of course
Exactly!
This game is too much for an 68k AGA machine. Don't let the retro look fool you!
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 11:27:10 AM by Daytona675x »
AmigaOS 4.1 FE (sam440ep, sam460ex, X5000, Tabor,  R200 / RadeonHD), MorphOS 3.9 (PowerMac G4 733MHz R200), AROS (x86), A1200 (060 80MHz Indivision MK2), A600 Vampire2 / Furia, A500, CDTV
[Dev Videos][Facebook][Old Wings Development Diary]
 

Offline Niding

Re: Tower 57 Kickstarter - AOS and MorphOS confirmed
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2015, 11:28:42 AM »
Quote from: Daytona675x;794396
@Thorhan:

sorry, but 020, 030, 0x0-whatever: you must be joking :)

No? Of course that would be rocket science :) No, actually it would be esoteric and no science...
Check out the trailer again and for a start just count the number of simultanously moving objects of some more hefty scenes.
Not to mention that the game's logical playfield resolution is 480 x 270 and other small details like that.

Exactly!
This game is too much for an 68k AGA machine. Don't let the retro look fool you!

Regardless, already pledged AND happy to see you take the Amiga versions. Soon I will have as many Cherry Darling games as I have Blizzard Entertainment games ;)

EDIT; And I know its not a Cherry Darling game, I just made that "stretch" comment since you are the guy doing the conversion ^^
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 11:37:38 AM by Niding »
 

Offline Daytona675x

Re: Tower 57 Kickstarter - AOS and MorphOS confirmed
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2015, 11:36:04 AM »
@Niding:
:) Will be a great game, well worth every pledge for sure!
Note however that this has exactly nothing to do with Cherry-Darling. Just like the Battle Squadron port had nothing to with C-D.
AmigaOS 4.1 FE (sam440ep, sam460ex, X5000, Tabor,  R200 / RadeonHD), MorphOS 3.9 (PowerMac G4 733MHz R200), AROS (x86), A1200 (060 80MHz Indivision MK2), A600 Vampire2 / Furia, A500, CDTV
[Dev Videos][Facebook][Old Wings Development Diary]
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Tower 57 Kickstarter - AOS and MorphOS confirmed
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2015, 12:05:49 PM »
Quote from: Daytona675x;794396
sorry, but 020, 030, 0x0-whatever: you must be joking :)
Absolutely not. You're assuming I'm talking about a 1:1 port. I'm talking about a souped-down version. Something like Chaos Engine on steroids, not a perfect port. Should have made that clear in my previous post.
 

Offline Daytona675x

Re: Tower 57 Kickstarter - AOS and MorphOS confirmed
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2015, 12:10:27 PM »
@Thorham:
It's not possible, simple as that. It would have to be stripped down massively. Color reduction etc. is not enough. The visible playfield area would have been reduced. The number of enemies etc. would have to be stripped down extremely. And that's just the most obvious things, the top of the ice berg (there's other stuff like for example the music would probably have to be remade using 4 Paula channels, because for ogg-music there won't be CPU time, etc. etc.)
You'd end up with a completely different game. Which again means: complete level redesign, etc.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 12:13:50 PM by Daytona675x »
AmigaOS 4.1 FE (sam440ep, sam460ex, X5000, Tabor,  R200 / RadeonHD), MorphOS 3.9 (PowerMac G4 733MHz R200), AROS (x86), A1200 (060 80MHz Indivision MK2), A600 Vampire2 / Furia, A500, CDTV
[Dev Videos][Facebook][Old Wings Development Diary]
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Tower 57 Kickstarter - AOS and MorphOS confirmed
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2015, 12:26:13 PM »
Quote from: Daytona675x;794400
It's not possible, simple as that.
What's not possible is to make the game the same. Didn't I say that in my previous post?

Quote from: Daytona675x;794400
The number of enemies etc. would have to be stripped down extremely.
How much? You can have a few dozen software sprites on screen at any one time. The problem is more with that flame thrower.

Quote from: Daytona675x;794400
the music would probably have to be remade using 4 Paula channels, because for ogg-music there won't be CPU time
Easy. Down sample to 28khz, and store as native 12 bit stereo. Now you can also mix in three sound effects per stereo side (hence the 12 bit and not 14). The audio files will end up big, but who cares? It's not as if it would have to run off a floppy disk.

Basically, the problem I have with this is that you're dismissing it completely without thinking it through completely (that's what it looks like). You're just saying it's completely impossible without really knowing how close you could get  (again, that's what it looks like).

That said, I'm not saying anyone should try it, but it would be nice to find out how close you'd be able to get (always much closer than nay-sayers would have you believe, of course).
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 12:28:32 PM by Thorham »
 

Offline Yasu

Re: Tower 57 Kickstarter - AOS and MorphOS confirmed
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2015, 02:53:19 PM »
You would in any case have to write it in ASM. This means a complete rewrite of all C++ code. Just that would be a very time consuming task and thus very costly, either monetary or the free time by unpaid programmers.

One reason the Amiga died as a commercial computer was piracy. The guys behind Pinball Illussions said it would be their last game because 75.000 expected sells would just break even. Everybody loved that game, but most gamers didn't pay for it.

Remember, the game came on a few disks but still needed to sell 75.000 copies to just break even. That says a lot about the amount of work going into game development, especially when programming in ASM. Today we have a lot of helpful tools that makes ports to different platforms easier and also gives programmers a lot of shortcuts. But not with ASM. It's as daunting as ever.

Do not underestimate the workload for such a project.

Offline Pyromania

Re: Tower 57 Kickstarter - AOS and MorphOS confirmed
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2015, 03:19:45 PM »
What no A500 512K support!
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Tower 57 Kickstarter - AOS and MorphOS confirmed
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2015, 04:14:50 PM »
Quote from: Yasu;794407
You would in any case have to write it in ASM.
Absolutely. I'm almost tempted to write a software sprite engine just to see how many software sprites you can get on screen without things getting slow.

Quote from: Pyromania;794408
What no A500 512K support!
Oh lord :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 04:17:12 PM by Thorham »
 

Offline adonay

Re: Tower 57 Kickstarter - AOS and MorphOS confirmed
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2015, 04:45:27 PM »
Quote from: Thorham;794401
What's not possible is to make the game the same. Didn't I say that in my previous post?


How much? You can have a few dozen software sprites on screen at any one time. The problem is more with that flame thrower.


Easy. Down sample to 28khz, and store as native 12 bit stereo. Now you can also mix in three sound effects per stereo side (hence the 12 bit and not 14). The audio files will end up big, but who cares? It's not as if it would have to run off a floppy disk.

Basically, the problem I have with this is that you're dismissing it completely without thinking it through completely (that's what it looks like). You're just saying it's completely impossible without really knowing how close you could get  (again, that's what it looks like).

That said, I'm not saying anyone should try it, but it would be nice to find out how close you'd be able to get (always much closer than nay-sayers would have you believe, of course).


Not to sound rude Thorham : But since you know all off this why dont YOU make such a game for a 68030 or is this  just some kind of retarded trolling you do just for fun . The comunity should be happy about any port that can and will be done for any of the systems .
%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! like this scare away developers.
A1200 ACA 1230
 

Offline Daytona675x

Re: Tower 57 Kickstarter - AOS and MorphOS confirmed
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2015, 04:58:12 PM »
@Thorham

Quote
Absolutely. I'm almost tempted to write a software sprite engine just to see how many software sprites you can get on screen without things getting slow.
FYI: a game is a little bit more than just a synthetic blitting test demo. If you want your test to be somewhat realistic to a minimum degree at least and to reveal more than just "whoot, he knows how to move.l", then not just 16 colors please! And transparency too please. And clipping. And not just 8x8 pixel objects. And run an AHI audio stream in the background to simulate your audio idea. And add some good long dummy-loops per entity to somewhat simulate the cycles needed for at least basic game logic.

Oh lord :rolleyes:

@Pyromania
Quote
What no A500 512K support!
:) Well, no port of this game here at least.
But: there's hope! Ask Thorham if his almost done blitting-system can be quickly turned into that "Chaos Engine on Steroids". Should be a matter of some days, after all it's all extremely simple and easy, right? And although his "engine" might be designed for >= 020, I bet it can be quickly stripped down to run on an A500, no doubt on that :)

@Thorham

Okay, enough fun.
Seriously: I suppose everybody here would like a fresh "Chaos Engine"-like game for classics. Would be awesome! And if you think you can do it (or help doing it), that's great!
But this topic here is about a 1:1 port of the game "Tower 57". And not about an AGA version stripped down beyond recognition (and after all I guess we at least agree that it definitely would be that way).

Please let's keep this thread on topic to help funding this game.

If you want such a "Chaos Engine" Plus for AGA, then please start a new topic for that.
However, be warned: you may think that it's all simple stuff etc. etc., but it is not. Everybody who has written a game will tell you that. I can do the 1:1 NG-Amiga ports quickly, that's true. But a 1:100 port down to AGA is a completely different story and would take lots of man-months of work for sure.
Don't understimate the work involved in stuff like that (and don't overestimate an 68k machine's power).
« Last Edit: August 22, 2015, 05:39:14 PM by Daytona675x »
AmigaOS 4.1 FE (sam440ep, sam460ex, X5000, Tabor,  R200 / RadeonHD), MorphOS 3.9 (PowerMac G4 733MHz R200), AROS (x86), A1200 (060 80MHz Indivision MK2), A600 Vampire2 / Furia, A500, CDTV
[Dev Videos][Facebook][Old Wings Development Diary]