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AuthorTopic: Surface 3 - New direction, higher prices and crappy i3  (Read 6930 times)

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Offline SysAdmin

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Quote from: yssing;764756
And here I was thinking, that I should get a lifetime membership of amiga.org.
It is not suitable for the SysAdmin to post stuff like this.
Anyway glad I did not throw money after amiga.org


Up to you, but your post is off topic. Amiga.org has always had an altermative  OS section and you are welcome to skip threads you have no interest in. Many Amiga.org owners own more than one system including Windows and or Mac/Linux and don't mind livley discussions of them. While some may see this thread as bashing in fact the MS Surface so far has been a epic failure. The only thing it has succeeded at is upsetting Microsoft's OEM PC Partners and made them rapidly make low cost Chromebooks.  Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember tying you down, beating you and forcing you to read this thread. Also, don't worry about not donating to Amiga.org. That always was your choice to make.
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Offline SysAdmin

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One nice thing about the Surface Pro 3 is the included pressure sensitive pen that has integrated one button launch of OneNote and 256 pressure levels. You can also use pressure sensitive pens on iPad & iPad Mini with Wacom's professional-grade pressure sensitivity (2,048 levels) but they will cost you $80 to $99 extra.

http://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Intuos-Creative-Stylus-CS500PK0/dp/B00FC7DOCW/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1400704721&sr=8-3&keywords=ipad+wacom+stylus

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AO1MH60/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=M3KV17QOEVYI&coliid=I1NA23XATFHA30&psc=1

A few got excited that the Pro 3 is $100 cheaper than the Pro 2. They easily achieved this by swapping out the nice i5 processor for the crappy i3. Even the original Surface Pro that's almost 2 years old had an i5 so this is a step back.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 09:44:02 PM by SysAdmin »
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Offline yssing

I read amiga.org and other sites for amiga related news, yes, the thread might be in "other opererating systems" but still the main focus should be on amiga and not MS bashing and apple fanboy'ing.

Yes I have other systems than amiga, but for news on those systems I go else where.

And I "like" your attitude towards this sites users, keep it up.
 

Offline CritAnime

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Quote from: SysAdmin;764762
A few got excited that the Pro 3 is $100 cheaper than the Pro 2. They easily achieved this by swapping out the nice i5 processor for the crappy i3. Even the original Surface Pro that's almost 2 years old had an i5 so this is a step back.

You are getting far too hung up on the fact it has a i3 in it. Lots of laptops come with i3 in that, for day to day stuff, is perfectly fine. A business looking to replace a fleet of aging laptops will not go "oh the i5 is so much more powerful lets get that!" they will look at the cost and go for the cheapest option. Especially if they have no need for i5 speeds.
 
You are hardly likely to hand a i5 or i7 powered computer to someone that is only going to be running powerpoint or wordprocessing. It is pointless.
 
Also do your math. $799 from $999 is not $100. Try $200.

Offline gertsy

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Quote from: SysAdmin;764735
Looks like the regular Surface RT tablets will be discontinued thus Surface will now start at $799 instead of $499.


Probably best before you write stuff up that you have a good read and understand the subject matter a little better.
 RT was the Original non-intel "Windows RT" version of the Surface.
With the second release of the Surface MS decided to drop the RT name from the device. Making it just the Surface.
The intel version "Surface Pro" has stayed with that name.
There has been no substantial price change of the release price of either model through all versions and releases.

I assumed you'd want to correctly represent the device because of your keenness to keep us up to date with its ongoing failure. As opposed to other similar tablet releases that fail to get a mention here.
 

Offline CritAnime

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Quote from: gertsy;764770
I assumed you'd want to correctly represent the device because of your keenness to keep us up to date with its ongoing failure. As opposed to other similar tablet releases that fail to get a mention here.

Don't be daft. It's Microsoft so everything is fair game. You don't need research. just bash away and it's all good.

Offline SysAdmin

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Quote from: CritAnime;764768
You are getting far too hung up on the fact it has a i3 in it. Lots of laptops come with i3 in that, for day to day stuff, is perfectly fine. A business looking to replace a fleet of aging laptops will not go "oh the i5 is so much more powerful lets get that!" they will look at the cost and go for the cheapest option. Especially if they have no need for i5 speeds.
 
You are hardly likely to hand a i5 or i7 powered computer to someone that is only going to be running powerpoint or wordprocessing. It is pointless.
 
Also do your math. $799 from $999 is not $100. Try $200.

When Surface Pro 2 failed to sell at $999 they reduced it to $899 and it has been that price for some time.

http://www.cnet.com/news/whats-new-with-the-microsoft-surface-pro-comparing-surface-pro-2-specs-vs-new-the-surface-pro-3/

Surface Pro always had an i5 so playing processor games by switching it to an i3 and bragging that it's cheaper is a so Microsoft. Everyone is different but I would never buy or want a machine with an i3. Apple offers no machines with an i3 for a reason.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 12:45:41 AM by SysAdmin »
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Offline CritAnime

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Quote from: SysAdmin;764772
When Surface Pro 2 failed to sell at $999 they reduced it to $899 and it has been that price for some time.
 
http://www.cnet.com/news/whats-new-with-the-microsoft-surface-pro-comparing-surface-pro-2-specs-vs-new-the-surface-pro-3/

fair enough, the articles I have seen have had the surface 2 at $999 and places are still selling them for $900+. So I appologise for that.
 
Quote
Surface Pro always had an i5 so playing processor games by switching it to an i3 and bragging that it's cheaper is a so Microsoft. Everyone one is different but I would never buy or want a machine with an i3. Apple offers no machines with an i3 for a reason.

And thats why it is your opinion. I could say I don't have a need to buy a iPad so why the hell should everyone else. As you say everyone is different. But they are not aiming this thing at a consumer level. Again why would a company that doens't need i5 power buy i5 equipment at $100 more. MS have brought a new price into it to be more competative in the business sector.

Offline Duce

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Apple have offered plenty of machines with i3's.  The fact that they currently don't is more a Haswell refresh issue than i3's simply not being powerful enough.  My father, who works for one of the largest telco companies in Canada recently got his newest laptop for work, and you guessed it, it has an i3 in it and runs just fine for what he needs.  The company chose to spend extra money on SSD's on all these new machines vs. going for the i5 option, just like I would have if I'd been doing it.

I've got one in an older iMac and it's completely adequate for what I need.  If I'd needed more grunt, I could have upgraded to an i5 or i7, just like one can with the Surface 3 devices should they need more power.

By your logic, Apple are a bunch of money grubbing, screwing bastards for offering less powerful options for either the same price or more, similar to the 5c and the new iPad variants, no?

Might be wise to get some therapy for the MS blind sided-ness.  Most people just don't use what they don't like vs. writing up National Enquirer "news" posts interjected with their own opinions and "facts".
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 01:14:25 AM by Duce »
 

Offline Iggy

Quote from: CritAnime;764768
You are getting far too hung up on the fact it has a i3 in it. Lots of laptops come with i3 in that, for day to day stuff, is perfectly fine. A business looking to replace a fleet of aging laptops will not go "oh the i5 is so much more powerful lets get that!" they will look at the cost and go for the cheapest option. Especially if they have no need for i5 speeds.
 
You are hardly likely to hand a i5 or i7 powered computer to someone that is only going to be running powerpoint or wordprocessing. It is pointless.
 
Also do your math. $799 from $999 is not $100. Try $200.

Um, I can buy an i3 laptop for $300, so I want this why?

Maybe with an AMD processor and a better integrated GPU...

After all, I may not want big cpu power, but what about decent gaming capability?
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Offline Duce

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Completely different beast, Iggy.  It's not being made nor marketed for those wanting a $300 laptop, nor is it marketed towards gamers and gaming.

They are going for the enterprise market and driving the Surface 3 machines as laptop replacements to engineers, doctors, IT people, etc.
 

Offline SysAdmin

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@Duce

I've never seen Apple offer an i3 in one of their machines. Maybe I missed it when it happened. If you watched the Surface Pro 3 presentation Microsoft targeted the MacBook Air not the iPad. Apple has not upgraded the Air's Display in over 3 years and it's looking dated in 2014. MS found one of Apple's shortcomings that's for sure. By targeting the iPad in the original Surface launch MS bit off more than they could handle. The iPad juggernaut annihilated the Surface and help fuel a almost 1 billion dollar loss for Microsoft's Surface division. They don't want to repeat that mistake so beating iPad is no longer a goal. The Air while still selling well is getting old and has a dated display. They hope by targeting that they get some traction with Surface Pro 3. While they made no mention of Surface RT being cancelled (Renamed just Surface 2 from the older Surface RT) rest assured it's days are numbered.

They gain nothing by saying it's cancelled while still having a huge amount of them sitting in warehouses unsold. Also, if they said that Surface RT (Surface 2) is cancelled now it would send a chill through their developer community. Developers would stop developing RT Apps immediately. By saying nothing about Surface RT they hope to change the focus to Surface Pro 3 and it's ability to run almost all x86 Windows applications. With less than a 2% share of the Tablet market or less than one day of iPad sales they are desperate to do anything they can.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 01:26:23 AM by SysAdmin »
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Offline Duce

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http://www.macworld.com/product/586734/21-5-inch-core-i3-imac-3-06ghz.html

Exact model I have, still works just fine for the minimal amount I use it.
 

Offline CritAnime

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Quote from: Iggy;764786
Um, I can buy an i3 laptop for $300, so I want this why?
 
Maybe with an AMD processor and a better integrated GPU...

You are looking this wrong. Lets put the surface thing to one side along with pricing. Sys was getting hung up on the fact it has a i3 and was saying it was crappy (implying it was not up to task.) For corporate use, which they are aiming at, it would be a perfectly fine CPU choice for day to day corporate stuff. Hell the i3 is a perfectly fine CPU for a lot of things. Maybe not gaming but....
 
Quote
After all, I may not want big cpu power, but what about decent gaming capability?

Again you are looking at this from a consumer perspective. they are aiming these things at the corporate sector. Gaming is not going to be their primary consern is it, unless they are in the gaming industry. Word processing, spreadsheets, power point all don't need masses of CPU power to work. You don't need massive GPU's as the Intel intergrated processor will work fine.

Offline Iggy

Quote from: Duce;764787
Completely different beast, Iggy.  It's not being made nor marketed for those wanting a $300 laptop, nor is it marketed towards gamers and gaming.

They are going for the enterprise market and driving the Surface 3 machines as laptop replacements to engineers, doctors, IT people, etc.

Funny, but I don't see those people using tablets, and this offers few advantages over a laptop.
So, do you really think engineers, doctors, and IT people WANT a device like this?
I know people in all three fields, and I think I'd have a hard time selling them this device (and having previously sold electronics, I'm pretty sure of this).
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