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AuthorTopic: Steve Jobs parked in Handicapped spaces and kicked old ladies?  (Read 4238 times)

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Offline Iggy

Re: Steve Jobs parked in Handicapped spaces and kicked old ladies?
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2014, 10:07:29 PM »
Quote from: Sean Cunningham;763756
It's either ignorant or disingenuous to poo-poo the LISA and Jobs while enjoying this website, any website, while enjoying an Amiga, a GUI, MorphOS, movies with visual effects,  CG animated features, smart phones in America...

I could go on.

You could...but I'd have a hard time reading further from the laughter.
You certainly do give this guy way too much credit.
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Offline Duce

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Re: Steve Jobs parked in Handicapped spaces and kicked old ladies?
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2014, 10:33:14 PM »
Apple would have hit their pinnacle of tech innovation with the Newton if Jobs didn't come back.

Seriously, all their tech while he was gone was utter, regurgitated crap, lol.  Sculley drove Apple into the ground, and while there's a lot of gripes to be made about Jobs on a personal level, he DID get them back on the path.  he was an arsehole, but he also was a perfectionist.  10 different variants of overpriced, underpowered Quadra's wouldn't have done it for Apple under Sculley.

Anyone saying Apple would have done the iPod without Jobs' crew at the wheel is insane, and that project alone got them to their dominant, albeit elitist uber hipster position they now hold.

Without Jobs they would have just made another cookie cutter MP3 player versus inventing the ipod, which virtually destroyed the competition of the day, as did the iphone and ipad when they came out.

Jobs and Ive saved Apple from a very rapid. very public and very painful death.  Sculley would have destroyed what was left of Apple in a matter of months, and their market value shows it in spades from back then.  I remember when the ipod came out, I had a $600 20 GB Nomad Jukebox I just loved.  I tried an ipod when they came out and never used the Nomad again, literally - the ipod was just so, so much better.

That being said, Jobs was no inventive genius.  He wasn't an engineer, but he did know how to absolutely put the fear of God into his crew in regards to making very good products.
 

Offline Iggy

Re: Steve Jobs parked in Handicapped spaces and kicked old ladies?
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2014, 11:06:04 PM »
Fear of Steve Jobs = Fear of God
Therefore, Jobs = God? :angry:

I don't really get the whole iPod thing.
But then I've never really liked the MP3 format.
Whenever possible, I've left audio uncompressed or used FLAC.

But let's give credit where due, the success of the iPod and iTunes is remarkable (and, for me, a little hard to grasp).

Then again, the company does know how to market slickly polished, appliance like electronics.

That probably explains why the only Apple product I've found vaguely interesting was the Mac Pro.
Its about the only Apple product with real hacker appeal.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

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"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline SysAdmin

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Re: Steve Jobs parked in Handicapped spaces and kicked old ladies?
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2014, 11:48:32 PM »
@Sean Cunningham

Apple has done very well for themselves. But Jobs can't be thanked or credited for the Amiga existence. He rejected it at the time and preferred the black and white slow as hell overprice Classic Mac. I'm sure Apple benifited  and learned a thing or two from the Amiga over the years. Jobs went out of his way to never mention the Amiga. Hoping to wipe its ever existing from everyone's memory. The Woz was a little kinder about mentioning Amiga.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 11:52:17 PM by SysAdmin »
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Offline Iggy

Re: Steve Jobs parked in Handicapped spaces and kicked old ladies?
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2014, 12:15:01 AM »
You have to like Wozniak.
Unlike Jobs, Woz is a true hacker (and the designer of their original hardware).

Of the three common 68K based machines of my youth, the Amiga, the ST, and the Mac, the Mac is the system that holds the least appeal for me.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline commodorejohn

Re: Steve Jobs parked in Handicapped spaces and kicked old ladies?
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2014, 01:17:20 AM »
The Mac incorporated a lot of really interesting, innovative ideas in its day. Unfortunately, most of the really good stuff either never caught on with anyone else (the Resource Manager and the forked filesystem,) or has since been forgotten (intuitive, heavily standardized UI) - especially now that Mac OS is just BSD with a shiny skin on it.
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Offline Valan

Re: Steve Jobs parked in Handicapped spaces and kicked old ladies?
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2014, 03:54:36 AM »
There are bad and good stories about Steve Jobs that span his lifetime but we don't really consider how he changed over the years.

He admitted that he made plenty of mistakes and changed his mind often.

He hired superb people as his execs and the successful ones stay or return for long periods, much higher than the silicon valley average.

I think his greatest decisions were to allow Jonny Ive to really hone the product design craft,  to  be part of the process and to give freedom to Tim Cook when he first joined Apple.

However, Apple now seems more balanced with Tim Cook, who seems to be almost the mirror image of Steve Jobs. Tim has done to management what Steve did to products. If Steve let the managers manage then Tim seems to let the producers produce.

I'd love to see Tim demo a product he users day to day not as the CEO but as a user. Apparently he really likes to use the AppleTV daily so I hope to see him demo the new system.
 

Offline Minuous

Re: Steve Jobs parked in Handicapped spaces and kicked old ladies?
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2014, 05:49:28 AM »
Quote from: Sean Cunningham;763756
any website, while enjoying an Amiga, a GUI, MorphOS, movies with visual effects,  CG animated features, smart phones in America...

Neither Jobs personally nor Apple invented any of those things. Apple have always made overpriced rubbish products, and that didn't change when Jobs returned. The most significant change he made was to more or less completely take away the rights of the users of his products, eg. DRM everywhere, no filesystem, no USB ports, disallowing rollback of OS updates, disallowing open source, paying $99 to run your own software on your own device, telling you what languages you can and can't use, etc. If he had retired/died sooner it would have been a better thing for the industry and for society in general.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 07:24:50 AM by Minuous »
 

Offline Sean Cunningham

Re: Steve Jobs parked in Handicapped spaces and kicked old ladies?
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2014, 06:38:00 AM »
Quote from: Minuous;763787
Neither Jobs personally nor Apple invented any of those things...

Here's a history lesson for you then.  Also, a suggestion to read a little more carefully.  I'm mostly talking about Jobs himself, though you do have Apple to thank for the proliferation of the smart phone in America.  Not the bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! that Motorola and everyone else had been pedaling while Asia had been enjoying even smarter phones than we have now since the '90s at least.

The Web began life on NeXT.

Regardless of the "black hardware" being a niche within a niche, OpenStep powered the proliferation of large scale web development.  And now every Mac is running NeXT software which is and always has been what Linux would like to be on the desktop some day.  Only the most unenlightened point at the failure of the black hardware as truly significant.  He won and actually accomplished more in the end than simply starting a new company to compete with the company that he founded that fired him.

One could argue that The Web would have been invented on something else.  Newsflash, it wasn't.  Speculate all you want about woulda-shoulda-coulda.

Pixar started life as a department of Lucasfilm but Lucas didn't see a future in what Ed Catmull and John Lassetter and his crew were doing so they spun off with the help of Jobs who would end up owning 70% of the company initially and then 100% some years later after repeated capital investment to keep it going while they continued developing Photorealistic Renderman, which popularized procedural shading, vastly increased the quality of shading in general, pushing forward the art and science of CGI as a whole.  PRman would power not only the first ever feature length animated film but the first ever computer generated image to be widely judged as indistinguishable from a photograph as well as the highest levels of photoreal visual effects for over a decade with virtually no competition.

One of my disappointments with the initial release of OSX was the fact that Photorealistic Renderman was no longer part of the OS like it was on NeXT.  On my NeXTStation Turbo Color it was built in and offered a lot of functionality that wasn't found in the SGI, Sun or Mac versions of Renderman.  By this time though, I think Pixar was in the black to nearly $5B in cash thanks to the successes of their films distributed by Disney and a single seat of Renderman to every other customer cost roughly twice the pricetag of the most expensive Mac you could buy at the time so they couldn't just go around giving it away anymore like when Jobs was trying to sell "black hardware".

Whatever to the rest of that rubbish you're talking about.

It's all kinds of ironic and funny to me so many Amigans talking trash while "next generation" Amigas are often what one could consider old Mac hardware.  I see the Amiga equivalent to Sharia Law is alive and well, hah-hah.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 06:51:27 AM by Sean Cunningham »
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: Steve Jobs parked in Handicapped spaces and kicked old ladies?
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2014, 06:57:45 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;763777
You have to like Wozniak.
Unlike Jobs, Woz is a true hacker (and the designer of their original hardware).

Of the three common 68K based machines of my youth, the Amiga, the ST, and the Mac, the Mac is the system that holds the least appeal for me.


True, and it's too bad that Woz didn't and still doesn't realize what a tool he was for Jobs.  He still doesn't understand that Jobs exploited his work and left him standing in the shadows, but that is what Jobs excelled at....stealing the work of others and taking credit for it.
 

Offline gertsy

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Re: Steve Jobs parked in Handicapped spaces and kicked old ladies?
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2014, 08:44:51 AM »
Quote from: Sean Cunningham;763788

...hah-hah.


Don't you mean "ha-ha"?

When he kicked old ladies he had runners and a turtle-neck on yeah? If so, what a monster.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 08:47:18 AM by gertsy »
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Steve Jobs parked in Handicapped spaces and kicked old ladies?
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2014, 10:04:33 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;763780
The Mac incorporated a lot of really interesting, innovative ideas in its day. Unfortunately, most of the really good stuff either never caught on with anyone else (the Resource Manager and the forked filesystem,) or has since been forgotten (intuitive, heavily standardized UI) - especially now that Mac OS is just BSD with a shiny skin on it.
Actually of the original Mac... Only the GUI was really interesting...

And modern Mac are not just "BSD with a shiny interface", they are in fact NeXTStep machines. Vastly superior to the original Mac.

Offline yssing

Re: Steve Jobs parked in Handicapped spaces and kicked old ladies?
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2014, 10:29:00 AM »
The GUI was not an apple invention, they "borrowed" that from xerox.

Althoug using the name Lisa, Jobs never really acknowledged having a daughter, even though her name is Lisa.

Jobs almost caused Apple to go belly-up.

Apple was never first with any thing, but they were good at "borrowing" form others and selling it as their own.

Apple became what they advertised wouldn't happen.. 1984
 

Offline commodorejohn

Re: Steve Jobs parked in Handicapped spaces and kicked old ladies?
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2014, 02:40:32 PM »
Quote from: bloodline;763793
Actually of the original Mac... Only the GUI was really interesting...

And modern Mac are not just "BSD with a shiny interface", they are in fact NeXTStep machines. Vastly superior to the original Mac.
So superior, in fact, that they've dropped back to a core OS from the '70s.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
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"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline Thorham

Re: Steve Jobs parked in Handicapped spaces and kicked old ladies?
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2014, 03:33:54 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;763799
So superior, in fact, that they've dropped back to a core OS from the '70s.

What's wrong with that? Toilet paper was introduced in 1857, and we still use it :p
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 03:36:08 PM by Thorham »