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AuthorTopic: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1  (Read 18479 times)

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guest11527

  • Guest
Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2014, 07:05:47 PM »
Quote from: buzz;771212
People resort to binary patches in Amigaland because the source is not available, the author doesn't care, the software has been discontinued and so on.  
Is that any different for open source? Here APIs are very fragile, and change over time quite rapidly. Thus, any unmaintained source is usually quite worthless.... Anyhow, it's a mixed bag. Every model has advantages and disadvantages. But in one way or another: For intuition, there are people around that would have sources. For BenchTrash, I can ensure you that the author *is* around and happy to fix bugs when reports are made. And I find it openly completely unacceptable to patch around, even *if* I had made a bug. Nobody is perfect.
Quote from: buzz;771212
Had the source been available for your code, you could have received a nice source patch in the mail which would have been considerably easier wouldn't it ?  
The deal has always been like this: You tell me what you want to do, and I tell you what I think about it. If we agree, you get the sources. This model worked well in the past, and yes, I have released sources for developers. I don't think it works any different for AmigaOs. At least it worked like this for me. The difference is simply this: Ask!
Quote from: buzz;771212
As I have already said, getting the source can be very difficult - it's a lovely idea to talk sure, but not everyone is listening (as I have already mentioned when trying to fix issues with existing software on the Amiga before)
If the author is not around anymore, or the maintainer at least, then yes, certainly. What the original intention of the author was, we cannot know. Sell the software maybe? Completely legidimate, if you ask me. What is anoying, of course, if the authors have lost interest, yet do not hand out anything.

But that's not the case here. In none of the cases here. Sources of BenchTrash are around, and sources for intuition are around.
Quote from: buzz;771212
It's your choice to licence your software however you want though of course.

Certainly. As I said already, it's a mixed bag.
 

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2014, 07:09:47 PM »
Quote from: Cosmos;771222
This library was compiled by a very bad compilator : Dice ? Aztec ?

If you know, please tell me...

Greenhill, actually, AFAIK. Pretty ancient beast, and unfortunately, the source of V40, as is, is pretty hard to port to anything other. It uses a couple of features of this compiler that should have better been avoided. No, it's not a particularly good compiler, though I doubt the difference is actually measurable, intuition is pretty much high-level.

Not clear who cleaned up the mess for Os 4.x, but its some major undertaking. It's not that the style is really bad, but the tool dependency certainly is.
 

Offline HammerD

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2014, 09:13:43 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;771225
Greenhill, actually, AFAIK. Pretty ancient beast, and unfortunately, the source of V40, as is, is pretty hard to port to anything other. It uses a couple of features of this compiler that should have better been avoided. No, it's not a particularly good compiler, though I doubt the difference is actually measurable, intuition is pretty much high-level.

Not clear who cleaned up the mess for Os 4.x, but its some major undertaking. It's not that the style is really bad, but the tool dependency certainly is.


It's too bad we couldn't organize some official BB3 or BB4 - I know there is unofficial ones, but as you say, it is fairly complex, talking to people, asking, organizing.  With no parent company to do this it makes it rather difficult.

I've had issues with BB3 and BB4 that I can't really explain, for me the most stable release is OS 3.9 BB2.   I can't really tell what other updates and patches can cause issues.  And really even with BB3 and 4 there is not a significant enough difference for me to really notice so even though I want to update I usually regret it if I do, so I always fall back to OS 3.9 BB2.

I do appreciate your recent updates though - and everyone's efforts.   It is very nice to see, as I find myself strangely using OS 3.x more than 4.x or MorphOS these days...
AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2014, 12:30:18 AM »
Thanks!  I'm a bit behind on these but this one is working fine in preliminary testing on my highly patched A2000 system.  Note that I had to stick it behind LoadResident, as for whatever reason it wasn't firing behind LoadModule.  No big deal, it's working now.  :)
 
 Question - whatever happened with that updated graphics.library you were working on a year or two back?  I seem to recall it had a lot of promise then just disappeared?  Hope I haven't already asked you this question, memory's a big rusty these days!  ;)
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline Cosmos

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2014, 05:51:21 AM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;771355
Question - whatever happened with that updated graphics.library you were working on a year or two back?  I seem to recall it had a lot of promise then just disappeared?  Hope I haven't already asked you this question, memory's a big rusty these days!  ;)

Still working on it from time to time... I have a very very low life condition, so it's a bit hard for me to get my mind concentrate for coding well...


No new version of the intuition yesterday : I was working on a new hack CyberStorm MK2 running now at 105 Mhz...

Pictures on my Warp3D blog this day...



:)

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2014, 08:54:11 PM »
Quote from: Cosmos;771107
One bug report about BenchTrash prefs : it's an issue from this proggy, not from my new intuition.library version...

Sorry, but that's an issue with your intuition hack. I checked now the source code.  

The corresponding code segment of BenchTrash computes a word-based offset and passes this offset in the form of two 16-bit integers into intuition, namely into DrawImage(). Please check the autodocs, the function takes two *WORDS* and not two *LONGS*, which is a different thing. Only the lowest 16 bits of the arguments are assumed to be valid.  

 Before you're saying that the C "integer promition rule to int" should apply, I suggest that you should familiarize yourself with the calling conventions and the freedoms a C compiler has. An "int" can be both 16 bit (Aztec) or 32 bit (SAS) wide (or, as a matter of fact, even wider if the compiler deems this necessary, though no Amiga compiler picks this choice), thus any type of promition that may or may not take place is the matter of the configuration of the compiler and not in the freedom of the intuition to assume that promotion to 32-bit LONG (and not int) has been performed.  

 I followed a bit the intuition internals, so this problem is not entirely your fault.  

Interestingly, the internal intuition function declares the prototype for DrawImage taking int arguments (!) not WORD (!) arguments, so the problem stems apparently from the fact that the original authors of intuition did not match the external prototype strictly to the internal function, and it seems that the final fix for intuition was only made in an inofficial and non-published version of intuition that was fixed for SAS/C instead of the Greenhill compiler. This version never made it to the 68K's, though. In both versions, however, DrawImage() runs into DrawImageState() which again packs the offsets as two 16-bit entities into a message (intuition aka boopsi aka smalltalk-message, not exec message) and sends this to the corresponding image object (aka, calls its dispatcher). Thus, it remains 16 bit at this point as initially declared, so whether promotion takes place or not is utterly irrelevant *for the original intuition*, despite the fact that the internal prototype does not fit.  If that creates any trouble with your modifications, I suggest that you review your code.  

In one way or another, please remove now the hack of a program you do not own from your pages. At least for my program. Even though I strongly disagree with hacking up intuition like this, especially as it creates problems you have experienced, I'm at least not its owner, so I cannot really complain as the intuition author. I can claim as the BenchTrash author, and that's what I'm doing here. Fix the source at its origin and match your code to the official prototype.
 

Offline Minuous

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2014, 06:11:53 AM »
Quote from: HammerD;771235
I've had issues with BB3 and BB4

What version was this, some old beta version I suspect?

Quote
that I can't really explain

You could try. I do take bug reports seriously, however "can't really explain" is not enough info.

(BTW just to clarify for readers, Cosmos intuition.library is not part of BB3/4, at least for now.)

Quote
sources for intuition are around.

Do you have a download link? Or I can "just ask" H&P or someone and I will be sent official AmigaOS source code?! I doubt this... :-(
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 06:21:04 AM by Minuous »
 

Offline Cosmos

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2014, 06:27:08 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;771589
Sorry, but that's an issue with your intuition hack. I checked now the source code.  

The corresponding code segment of BenchTrash computes a word-based offset and passes this offset in the form of two 16-bit integers into intuition, namely into DrawImage(). Please check the autodocs, the function takes two *WORDS* and not two *LONGS*, which is a different thing. Only the lowest 16 bits of the arguments are assumed to be valid.  

 Before you're saying that the C "integer promition rule to int" should apply, I suggest that you should familiarize yourself with the calling conventions and the freedoms a C compiler has. An "int" can be both 16 bit (Aztec) or 32 bit (SAS) wide (or, as a matter of fact, even wider if the compiler deems this necessary, though no Amiga compiler picks this choice), thus any type of promition that may or may not take place is the matter of the configuration of the compiler and not in the freedom of the intuition to assume that promotion to 32-bit LONG (and not int) has been performed.  

 I followed a bit the intuition internals, so this problem is not entirely your fault.  

Interestingly, the internal intuition function declares the prototype for DrawImage taking int arguments (!) not WORD (!) arguments, so the problem stems apparently from the fact that the original authors of intuition did not match the external prototype strictly to the internal function, and it seems that the final fix for intuition was only made in an inofficial and non-published version of intuition that was fixed for SAS/C instead of the Greenhill compiler. This version never made it to the 68K's, though. In both versions, however, DrawImage() runs into DrawImageState() which again packs the offsets as two 16-bit entities into a message (intuition aka boopsi aka smalltalk-message, not exec message) and sends this to the corresponding image object (aka, calls its dispatcher). Thus, it remains 16 bit at this point as initially declared, so whether promotion takes place or not is utterly irrelevant *for the original intuition*, despite the fact that the internal prototype does not fit.  If that creates any trouble with your modifications, I suggest that you review your code.  

In one way or another, please remove now the hack of a program you do not own from your pages. At least for my program. Even though I strongly disagree with hacking up intuition like this, especially as it creates problems you have experienced, I'm at least not its owner, so I cannot really complain as the intuition author. I can claim as the BenchTrash author, and that's what I'm doing here. Fix the source at its origin and match your code to the official prototype.

What ??

The bug is from the bsr.w JL_3_1A42 & beq.w JL_3_1A24 !

Since no tst after the bsr, the beq take the CCR from the jsr -$72(a6) savestackmove who is wrong... I have removed these useless savestackmove, so your BenchTrash bug now...

You have to add a CCR Z by yourself (moveq #1,d0 is perfect) at the end of JL_3_1A42 after the jsr -$72(a6) because R_DrawImage return none : it's a bug from you...

No shame to code bug, I code bug too and all coders bug sometimes...


@Thomas Richter

I'm in a rage you cannot imagine : I think you are a satanist who want to destroy my works, my dreams and my reputation...

For this type of issue, private message is available but you want to f**k me in public here...

I really don't like that... Be carefull with me, I can be very very bad...




:(

Offline Cosmos

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2014, 09:15:26 AM »
intuition.library v40.86 beta 6

  - R_OpenWindowTagList now SMART_REFRESH mode
  - R_GetDefaultPubScreen optimized
  - a lot of tiny subroutines inlined
  - 9256 bytes saved


==> http://leblogdecosmos.blogspot.fr/p/coding.html



:)

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2014, 01:31:23 PM »
Quote from: Cosmos;771638

Since no tst after the bsr, the beq take the CCR from the jsr -$72(a6) savestackmove who is wrong... I have removed these useless savestackmove, so your BenchTrash bug now...

Ok, so now I understand. The problem is not that the arguments are not correct, but the return condition is not correct. Why didn't you say so in first place? Finally, thank you. It is a matter of making a proper bug report.  

The "useless stack moves" reserve stack space for a RastPort, and no, it is not "useless". If you don't do that, you trash the stack under the stack pointer.

Anyhow, you created quite a mess. Maybe the most important problem is the wrong copyright. You cannot know this, but BenchTrash is of today *not* (c) Amiga. Copyright went back to me, so IOWs, you are assigning my work to somebody else by this patch... This is exactly the reason why I do not want third parties to redistribute work without permission. You cannot know everything about the tiny details, which is exactly the reason why you shouldn't mess with somebody else's work.  Same goes to intuition: This is a copyrighted work. What you do here is, quite simply, illegal.  
Quote from: Cosmos;771638
I'm in a rage you cannot imagine : I think you are a satanist who want to destroy my works, my dreams and my reputation...
Reputation? I beg your pardon, Cosmos, but you are building a "reputation" by illegally patching somebody else's work and redistributing a reverse-engineered version of intuition, a work you do not have any rights on? What exactly do you expect to happen? Or to put it in a different way, which type of "reputation" do you want to establish? Why don't you just talk to people *before* you start to patch?
 

Offline Cosmos

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2014, 01:42:45 PM »
Silly guy as always : the law is a lie to rob the people "legally" : so, I do what I want...

You (and everyone else) can put your rights in your a** very deeply...



:(

guest11527

  • Guest
Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2014, 03:49:52 PM »
Quote from: Cosmos;771650
Silly guy as always : the law is a lie to rob the people "legally" : so, I do what I want...

You (and everyone else) can put your rights in your a** very deeply...

So, I suppose, you then wanted to establish your reputation as a thief and ignorant to begin with? Ok, in that case don't worry - it worked just perfectly fine.

One way or another, the situation is as it is, and no, it doesn't get more legal by Amiga not publishing it or you not willing to talk to them, or anyone. Yes, it is a sad story, but the situation does not exactly improve by activities like the ones you did.

Actually, the whole reason by AmigaOs is in such a sad state is that a lot of people actually just took code instead of asking, which caused a lot of disruption and needless waste of energy. There would have been the chance to help, but instead you keep destroying it.
 

Offline thommys

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2014, 04:02:44 PM »
I think i know why Cosmos is banned from eab.
Maybe amiga.org ban him too.
 

Offline kamelito

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2014, 05:32:45 PM »
To me Cosmos wants to help the 3.x community left behind and he is having fun doing so.
He harms no one so why don't you let him alone? I'm sure that you have better things to do.
"Remember when computing was fun?..."

Kamelito
 

Offline kolla

Re: New improved intuition.library version from the Kickstart 3.1
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2014, 06:02:15 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;771649
illegally patching somebody else's work and redistributing a reverse-engineered version of intuition


Excuse me? I do not see anything illegal about what Cosmos is doing, which from what I have seen, is to reverse engineer, do his changes and distribute patches, so that others can apply his patches to their originals. That is not the same as distributing reverse-engineered version of intuition.

Other than that, I am fully with Buzz, in the open source world things are _much_ easier, suggesting that it isn't just displays a whole deal of ignorance and backwards attitudes.
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