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AuthorTopic: New AGA SDL Development  (Read 17075 times)

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Offline AmigaClassicRule

Re: New AGA SDL Development
« Reply #90 on: May 17, 2013, 02:45:14 AM »
Quote from: magnetic;735264
Man, just when I thought we were close to Netsurf AGA for classics... :(  Surely a bounty would inspire someone to do this?

Actually I was hoping for Zelda for classic Amiga AGA but I guess I am dreaming here too.
 

Offline chris

Re: New AGA SDL Development
« Reply #91 on: May 17, 2013, 09:40:57 AM »
Quote from: wawrzon;735241
i trust you sdl is slow but have not seen any proof. depends on implementation i guess.


I have faith that Novacoder's SDL won't be slow.  That's not the problem here - the issue is that NetSurf's Framebuffer GUI is not designed for operating systems with a proper GUI toolkit.
"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar picture is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz
 

Offline Crumb

Re: New AGA SDL Development
« Reply #92 on: May 17, 2013, 09:53:17 AM »
Quote from: wawrzon;735241
if.. if.. if...... believe me, id prefer the same like you but neither from os4 nor mos camp there is enough good will to synchronize.

Perhaps you have a distorted view because Chris is trying to help and he even performed changes in his code to make it easier to adapt to OS3.x. Itix and Fab are always helpful, Fab for example always helps porting his apps to other OSes like AROS and OS4.x. Put some lines of classic amiga code and Piru will always help to optimize and iron out bugs. I don't think Kas1e doesn't have good will helping OS3.x users. But keep in mind they already did a choice and you can't force them to compile code for OS3.x specially if they no longer use these systems.

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aros and genuine amiga people (68k) would come along but usually lack skills.

Until Jason and Toni Willen there were quite a lot of users who didn't care much about 68k nor compatibility with it.

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and when you complain about bernd, id prefer he renamed the lib, but since he didnt everybody is free to resign on soft compiled against it and stay with 48.x (already a trouble). i myself always tried to go for libnix first, whatever...

The problem is that he created an artificial incompatibility because OS4&MOS have the most active coders and now you can be sure they won't help debugging any v60 ixemul app. Adapting AROS posix library to AmigasOS3.x would have been much less harmful. Don't get me wrong, it's great than someone codes for OS3.x and I can understand he choose to release his own version but that caused more fragmentation in our already fragmented community.

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i trust you sdl is slow but have not seen any proof. depends on implementation i guess.

Just open SDL OWB on OS4 and compare it to OWB-MUI. Or just open Netsurf SDL on a real 060+RTG miggy. Download my tool and play with it and you'll see how easy is creating a Reaction GUI. To compile stuff you'll probably have to write:
gcc mygui.c events.c -o mygui.exe -noixemul
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: Club de Usuarios de Amiga de Zaragoza (CUAZ)
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: New AGA SDL Development
« Reply #93 on: May 17, 2013, 01:03:06 PM »
Quote from: chris;735289
I have faith that Novacoder's SDL won't be slow.  That's not the problem here - the issue is that NetSurf's Framebuffer GUI is not designed for operating systems with a proper GUI toolkit.


you mean like the framebuffer gets wholly rerendered when something within the content chenges? like an animation or text input into a form? this is of course an angument, but then as you see there is none who can implement your frontend on 68k.
 

Offline Fab

Re: New AGA SDL Development
« Reply #94 on: May 17, 2013, 01:18:54 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;735312
you mean like the framebuffer gets wholly rerendered when something within the content chenges? like an animation or text input into a form? this is of course an angument, but then as you see there is none who can implement your frontend on 68k.

That's what makes scrolling or anything dozen times slower than it should be...
When i started OWB porting, i had a try at the SDL backend of OWB for fun, and it was absolutely terrible (on PPC), since it was also rendering the whole buffer for any damaged area.

Even if you keep SDL, you should at least do it properly and modify it to only updated damaged areas, that would really increase performance.

Apart from this, i think you really overestimate the work to do to adapt it to MUI or Reaction (they already exist! And the Reaction version is recent and more optimized). So just go for it, one step at a time.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: New AGA SDL Development
« Reply #95 on: May 17, 2013, 01:20:05 PM »
Quote from: Crumb;735291
Perhaps you have a distorted view because Chris is trying to help and he even performed changes in his code to make it easier to adapt to OS3.x. Itix and Fab are always helpful, Fab for example always helps porting his apps to other OSes like AROS and OS4.x. Put some lines of classic amiga code and Piru will always help to optimize and iron out bugs. I don't think Kas1e doesn't have good will helping OS3.x users. But keep in mind they already did a choice and you can't force them to compile code for OS3.x specially if they no longer use these systems.
no, im quite calm about it actually. i have had good contact to most of the people you mentioned and while they have not much interest in original amiga left, they were always open, helpful and collegial, i value them and the attitude, including kas1e. if only the whole scene were like them. i am also not demanding anything from them or you for that matter. their and your comments may be a guidance, but all of us must comprehend the reality of the situation. and this is that for instance with all the help of the above people i hardly can code a line, even if i helped up and help in a number of projects. lately i tried to compile odyssey for aros 68k with the help of deadwood, jason and fab. and what came out of it? nothing!

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Until Jason and Toni Willen there were quite a lot of users who didn't care much about 68k nor compatibility with it.
its still like this, but it is wrong, aros could be a great repleacment for the original os but it still needs improvements.

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Just open SDL OWB on OS4 and compare it to OWB-MUI. Or just open Netsurf SDL on a real 060+RTG miggy. Download my tool and play with it and you'll see how easy is creating a Reaction GUI. To compile stuff you'll probably have to write:
gcc mygui.c events.c -o mygui.exe -noixemul

may look at it but pretty much know that i cant handle it. its not only the gui. netsurf needs also to have chris' plotter to work on 68k.
 

Offline NovaCoder

Re: New AGA SDL Development
« Reply #96 on: May 17, 2013, 01:35:48 PM »
Quote from: Fab;735313
Even if you keep SDL, you should at least do it properly and modify it to only updated damaged areas, that would really increase performance.


Yep, done this already.
Life begins at 100 MIPS!


Nice Ports on AmiNet!
 

Offline chris

Re: New AGA SDL Development
« Reply #97 on: May 17, 2013, 01:59:34 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;735312
you mean like the framebuffer gets wholly rerendered when something within the content chenges? like an animation or text input into a form? this is of course an angument, but then as you see there is none who can implement your frontend on 68k.


I have no idea whether that is the case or not.  What I meant was it doesn't support multiple windows, menus, drag'n'drop, window resizing, loading/saving(?), clipboard(?), etc.
"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar picture is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz
 

Offline OlafS3

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Re: New AGA SDL Development
« Reply #98 on: May 17, 2013, 03:57:12 PM »
we discovered the same with the z.library where obvious 68k and AmigaOS are identical, whereas MorphOS created a incompatible one (AROS devs solved it by creating a new one with different name). The mess is not only caused by classic people but also by NG people. Developers are not very interested in Crossplatform compatibility because they (in most cases) develop only for one platform.
 

Offline NovaCoder

Re: New AGA SDL Development
« Reply #99 on: May 26, 2013, 05:33:36 AM »
First NetSurf AGA BETA released which uses this new SDL library  ;)
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 12:35:03 AM by NovaCoder »
Life begins at 100 MIPS!


Nice Ports on AmiNet!
 

Offline AmigaClassicRule

Re: New AGA SDL Development
« Reply #100 on: May 26, 2013, 07:05:25 AM »
Quote from: NovaCoder;736008
First NetSurf AGA BETA released which uses this new SDL library  ;)

BETA Thread


I cannot get it from that website specified and I cannot find it in aminet.
 

Offline NovaCoder

Re: New AGA SDL Development
« Reply #101 on: May 26, 2013, 07:26:38 AM »
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;736009
I cannot get it from that website specified and I cannot find it in aminet.


http://eab.abime.net/index.php
Life begins at 100 MIPS!


Nice Ports on AmiNet!
 

Offline AmigaClassicRule

Re: New AGA SDL Development
« Reply #102 on: May 26, 2013, 07:51:13 AM »
Quote from: NovaCoder;736010
http://eab.abime.net/index.php

I do not have rights to The Zone.
 

Offline kamelito

Re: New AGA SDL Development
« Reply #103 on: May 26, 2013, 09:56:20 AM »
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;736011
I do not have rights to The Zone.

 You need to create an account and log in.  Kamelito
 

Offline AmigaClassicRule

Re: New AGA SDL Development
« Reply #104 on: May 26, 2013, 05:21:48 PM »
Quote from: kamelito;736013
You need to create an account and log in.  Kamelito

You do not get it...I already have account. It just these files are located in The Zone and The Zone have special privileges that I do not have with my current account. In the end I just need to wait until NovaCoder releases it into Aminet that is all.