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AuthorTopic: What Makes a Good Game?  (Read 1883 times)

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Offline rvo_nl

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Re: What Makes a Good Game?
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2013, 08:21:16 PM »
I'd say it really depends on the type of game. (although being fun is ofcourse the first requirement) For example, I like it when '3d games' give me plenty of freedom to do things my way (gta, elder scrolls, hitman etc) while for say, a driving game, proper simulation and a wide range of cars is more important.
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Offline XDelusion

Re: What Makes a Good Game?
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2013, 08:37:59 PM »
Quote from: Delta;728138
I would say its the "immersion" experience.  When a game is good you totally forget about the outside world.  

Feeling of accomplishment when you finish a level or a zone is also great.

Feeling of having full control on your character.  This is the worst with 3D shooters, when there is an explosion you feel like your character has parkinson disease and that pisses me off.  Also the damn never ending movie-like scenes where you only watch and can't do nothing.  

On a different style, why is Angry Birds so popular?  Its a challenge to make all the blocks fall and there is numerous ways to achieve it.  It has funny characters with funny noises and its for kids as well as adults, guys or gals.


Noted: I am looking for a way to skip the story in my project should the player desire to do so.

As for Angry Birds... I have no idea why it is so huge. Maybe because even people with no gaming skills can play it and feel like they are a good player?! :)

Just to show you how far the Angry Bird flu has spread...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXQ2hBdMt40
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline Delta

Re: What Makes a Good Game?
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2013, 09:31:24 PM »
Quote from: XDelusion;728164

As for Angry Birds... I have no idea why it is so huge. Maybe because even people with no gaming skills can play it and feel like they are a good player?! :)
Just to show you how far the Angry Bird flu has spread...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXQ2hBdMt40


Sad thing about these "mobile" games is they could have existed (or did) 20 years ago on Amiga but now suddendly they are considered good games because you can play them on your phone.

As for skills since you mention it I consider myself an average skilled video games player but if I get killed right away 3 times in a row while trying a new game then its over, I won't go back to it ever.  There is a lot of games on the market so if I can't have fun right away, its rejected :)
-=Delta
 

Offline CritAnime

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Re: What Makes a Good Game?
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2013, 09:43:59 PM »
To me the two main indicators of a good game is if it plays well and it is fun.
 
By plays well I mean the controls actually work. So many times I have played a game that should be a great blast to play but the controls let it down too much. And fun is pretty self explanatory :lol:
 
Thing is for me graphics don't factor into how much I would enjoy a game. A game could be visually bland or even dated in terms of technical aspects. A game can be difficult too and it wouldn't bother me. So long as the game is fun to me then I couldn't give a hoot lol.

Offline XDelusion

Re: What Makes a Good Game?
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2013, 09:52:05 PM »
Quote from: Delta;728170
Sad thing about these "mobile" games is they could have existed (or did) 20 years ago on Amiga but now suddendly they are considered good games because you can play them on your phone.

As for skills since you mention it I consider myself an average skilled video games player but if I get killed right away 3 times in a row while trying a new game then its over, I won't go back to it ever.  There is a lot of games on the market so if I can't have fun right away, its rejected :)


 I'll be sure to ease players into the game play then in the first level or two, but by level three I'm going to turn up the heat...

...but with a little exploration, players will find items to help balance out the difficulty.
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline Mrs Beanbag

Re: What Makes a Good Game?
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2013, 10:44:33 PM »
On a platform game the first thing that has to be right is the controls, the way the character moves in response to the joystick. Responsiveness plus the right amount of inertia to make it feel "solid" and it can be fun enough just to run and jump around.
Signature intentionally left blank
 

Offline XDelusion

Re: What Makes a Good Game?
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2013, 11:18:37 PM »
Quote from: Mrs Beanbag;728187
On a platform game the first thing that has to be right is the controls, the way the character moves in response to the joystick. Responsiveness plus the right amount of inertia to make it feel "solid" and it can be fun enough just to run and jump around.


And what are your thoughts on Platforming in First Person? :)
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline Lord Aga

Re: What Makes a Good Game?
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2013, 09:08:38 AM »
Quote from: XDelusion;728123
It is a broad question, and I wanted broad answers. :)
And yes, I am just kind of getting a feel from the community what their tastes are...
...in relation to my AB3D FPS.

I've been following your work, and, needless to say, I am a great fan :)
Now, let me try to help as much as I can...

First, a couple of broad answers :)
Every game needs the "right amount of levels". Well, except those which have no levels :crazy: You can't make, like, four levels, and then leave the player disappointed. Nor can you make 256 levels, and make everyone die of boredom somewhere around level 173. First AB3D is the example of perfection in that regard. Just make a well rounded game, and then, if you have more ideas, add them with a mission pack, or as a slightly updated sequel.
Then, you need to have some memorable stuff ! It can be anything really. Like some immortal tunes we are still humming some 100 years later. But not everyone is talented and music making can be kinda tough. Still, it could be a really cool sound effect. Record yourself or a friend for a really scary/funny monster effect. Invent a really unique/original weapon. Make it ultra powerful and fun to use, but make it ultra scarce also. Add a dash of humor, put up an "alien toilet" sign inside of the alien fortress, or an Amiga inside a computer room. Put hidden messages throughout the game. Let them tell a side story. Funny or dramatic. Happy or sad. Put an extra effort in one of the bosses. Make it super cool. It is impossible for all bosses to be super cool, but that one just might be, so everyone will remember him. Invent names and artifacts. But don't just splurt names like Xaxxzorx. It's on the wrong side of silly and reveals a lack of imagination. Mix artistic elements. Is a game 3D or pixel art ? Have a talented friend draw some cool pictures with pen and paper. Scan them and show them between the levels. Mixing art types goes a long way in describing an imaginary world to your audience. Everyone will remember "that game with cool drawings". Add some voice acting to the game. We are not so  limited with RAM today. Make some memorable quotes for your audience.

Now, for the FPS specific. DON'T make a "save anytime" feature. It completely destroys suspension and fear factor. Save should be possible only between levels. Or just use codes for that purpose. Once again, AB3D got it just right. DON'T ever never ever do enemy re-spawning. It's annoying as hell and unrealistic. It could be done only as a part of a story/level design. Like there's an alien teleport and they keep popping out until you shut it down/destroy it. But re-appearing enemies for no reason is a big no-no.

Quote from: XDelusion;728173
I'll be sure to ease players into the game play then in the first level or two, but by level three I'm going to turn up the heat...
...but with a little exploration, players will find items to help balance out the difficulty.

This is the right way to go. It should not be mandatory to explore the whole level, but if you find it too difficult, you can snoop around and find that one grenade that will ease up the fight a bit.
Level design. As harsh as the constraints might be, try to make the command room look like a command room. Cafeteria, locker room, ammo depot, shooting range, prison, engine room, medi-block... They should have some distinguishable details. Not just be a room with an explaining sign on it.

Whoaaa man, have I got myself yapping with no end. Well, I have much more to say, but I don't want to risk annoying people :)
If anyone needs me, I'll be in my bunk :)
Glory to the loud-mouthed Scotsman !
 

Offline polyp2000

Re: What Makes a Good Game?
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2013, 09:26:01 AM »
Quote from: Astral;728107
3D shooters aren't games :D

I can honestly say I have never played any 3D shooter that I have enjoyed. In fact, I find them downright boring. Maybe this is a bit of a melodramatic broad comment...but "they are all the same game with different graphics"!


Come on .... - Not even Duke Nukem ?

Offline Mrs Beanbag

Re: What Makes a Good Game?
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2013, 02:51:53 PM »
Quote from: XDelusion;728195
And what are your thoughts on Platforming in First Person? :)
Quite simply, "no".
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Offline Mrs Beanbag

Re: What Makes a Good Game?
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2013, 02:57:58 PM »
Quote from: Lord Aga;728226
Now, for the FPS specific. ... DON'T ever never ever do enemy re-spawning. It's annoying as hell and unrealistic. It could be done only as a part of a story/level design. Like there's an alien teleport and they keep popping out until you shut it down/destroy it. But re-appearing enemies for no reason is a big no-no.
This is not FPS specific. Respawning bad guys are a pain in any genre. I hated Zool for that. They'd re-appear the instant their origin went off-screen; often, simply jumping straight up would be enough to make an enemy you'd just killed appear again and get you on the way down. Infuriating.
Signature intentionally left blank
 

Offline fishy_fiz

Re: What Makes a Good Game?
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2013, 03:12:17 PM »
There's no absolutes here. Everybody has different tastes and different things they deem "fun". In my opinion its easier to put a finger on what makes a bad game, and try to avoid that.
In my humble opinion however:

Variety, but not in excess is important. Too little variety there's little motivation to keep going. Overdo it however and there's never a sense of cohesion.
Learning curve. Give a player a level or 2 to come to grips with the game controls and basic mechanics. Again, dont overdo it though, or a person will just start thinking, "enough already, I just wanna get on with the game".
Im also a fan of a good storyline. Doesnt have to be the best story, but something engaging for me helps me me want to continue a game to see how the story pans out.
Audio. Especially for a dark, atmospheric FPS shouldnt be underestimated. For A grade modern gaming this atmosphere can to a degree be created with visuals, but for older games/game engines sound adds more. We have natural sensory responses to audiovisuals, so try to have at least one or the other adding to atmosphere.
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

Re: What Makes a Good Game?
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2013, 03:17:51 PM »
Quote from: Astral;728107
I can honestly say I have never played any 3D shooter that I have enjoyed. In fact, I find them downright boring. Maybe this is a bit of a melodramatic broad comment...but "they are all the same game with different graphics"!


To each his own as they say, but this is exactly the same with any genre.
Platformers, 2d shooters, racing games, rts games, etc., etc.

The devil is in the details. This is what separates games that are on the surface 80%+ (figure chosen at random) the same.
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline Linde

Re: What Makes a Good Game?
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2013, 05:21:46 PM »
Quote from: Delta;728170
Sad thing about these "mobile" games is they could have existed (or did) 20 years ago on Amiga but now suddendly they are considered good games because you can play them on your phone.

What's actually sad about that? Phones just happen to be a pretty good platform for this type of casual games. If I had a 15 minute commute I'd rather spend it playing Angry Birds than something heavier like Baldur's Gate or whatever, simply because the latter requires a greater attention span and more time to really indulge in its awesomeness. In my opinion, both are good games, but in many ways for totally different reasons. Whatever I think of the whole weird hype around Angry Birds doesn't really make or break the game in terms of quality.
 

Offline Linde

Re: What Makes a Good Game?
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2013, 05:36:21 PM »
Quote
DON'T ever never ever do enemy re-spawning. It's annoying as hell and unrealistic. It could be done only as a part of a story/level design. Like there's an alien teleport and they keep popping out until you shut it down/destroy it. But re-appearing enemies for no reason is a big no-no.

I think Doom nailed that pretty well (especially compared to Doom 3 :)). To use your own terminology, it adds to the fear factor and suspense when done right. But I don't see realism in games as an inherently good thing. If it's unrealistic, so what? The whole premise of FPS games since the birth of the genre is unrealistic. You can't run and jump carrying five rifles. You can't restore your health instantly by walking into a white box. I can't think of a single realistic FPS I've spent any relevant amount of time with. Shooters that do aim for complete realism mostly end up having a completely arbitrary level of realism that makes every unrealistic element of the game pop out in a really disenchanting way.