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AuthorTopic: New to Whdload what's The crack?  (Read 7882 times)

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Offline kedawa

Re: New to Whdload what's The crack?
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2013, 11:11:35 PM »
Google doesn't need some type of textlink to snoop.  Anything that shows up in their DNS gets analyzed.
 

Offline F1Lupo

Re: New to Whdload what's The crack?
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2013, 06:32:03 PM »
@ spirantho

ah I see now & thta's why I personally don't trust this 'cloud' stuff for perosnal info. I thought it was on your HD & the bot somehow got it.

anyhow good tom see things got settled in the end and unfortunate to know that google or any 'bot' is capable of taking stuff from 'cloud' storage like that
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Offline kickstart

Re: New to Whdload what's The crack?
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2013, 07:07:35 PM »
Quote from: lempkee;721931
you've missunderstood this one, the guys complaining doesn't even own any Amiga's and just want to bitch whenever possible, you know it's those guys who seem so "into it" but at the same time its those that jumped ship and left the Amiga nearly if not more than a decade ago.

Anyway, Whdload for life!.
I have been one of the largest contributors and supplied em with over 1000 orginal games.


Nice speech but im just talk about the run alone on lotus turbo challenge NOT of whdload, whdload is cool and i have it registered.
a1200 060
 

Offline superfrog76

Re: New to Whdload what's The crack?
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2014, 06:07:49 AM »
Honestly, I have my own opinion on the whole WHDLoad, which is not really a good one.

So far, I am all for supporting software: if someone makes a new software, I may buy it if I need it; but things with WHDLoad are different....

And just to give some background: I make quite a lot of money, so 40 dollars are not a big deal in the end (I spend probably half of it every day at lunch...so I just have 2 salads for 2 days and I can pay for it), and I have always purchased original games and Amiga software, when it was sold in stores. I am so adamant on these things (being a developer on Windows OS, sadly, but this is what sell nowadays), that if my original would get damaged, I would buy again the same game.

At first, I thought that WHDLoad was free; like many things nowadays on the Amiga; then I realized that it was a sort of shareware...well, I live with Winrar trial since 2001 probably; it gives you the bothersome message and then it just works; I told myself that I can live with the delay message.

Then I figured out that the software cause errors on the games on purpose, or lock the OS forcing you not only to reboot, but to power cycle to clean the memory. Unless you pay the ....registration.

Again, it is fine to "force" people to buy your product, but I see it as quite aggressive behavior...I would be fine with a finite amount of run, then you need the license, if it is not slapped on my face.

The second issue that I have is legal: the whole WHDLoad depends on games, which are basically still covered by copyright. AFAIKT, nobody gave written authorization to the guys that write WHDLoad, to sell an application that allow people to run their games on the hdd, and make profit out of it.
Altho they are making money on this, and the fact that the application is totally useless, unless you have games to install, reinforce the point that it is a derived app, depending from a copyrighted piece of software. Different from a  plugin that you may use in an app like 3dsmax, because it won't add any new feature to the application itself (the ability to run on hd is an os paradigm, once is in memory the OS can't care less if it came from a floppy block or a HD block).

So to me, if it was free, and request donation as many do, I would be all for it, but since it is a product that force you to pay a hefty amount of money, to use games that in most cases are covered by copyright, makes me feel uncomfortable.
Being Amiga stuff, most of the SW houses are either dead, or don't care anymore, this may mitigate the issue, from a legal standpoint, but I feel morally obliged to not buy this piece of software.

I mean, take the work done by classicWB, and they really deserve kudos and money, for giving a great service, for taking the time in packing applications and utilities, in something easy to install and use. Altho they didn't write the applications itself, they supply a service that is quite useful and worthy of appreciation.

This is obviously my idea; I have my beliefs and I follow them, independently if we are talking of a dead platform or not. I prefer to have my 200 floppy, with the games that I like, install the games that has an installer, and continue to use the Amiga without WHDLoad.
Pretty sure that most of you will not grasp my motivations, so feel free to continue to support whatever you consider legit and useful to your purposes...they will not close and stop to make WHDLoad, just because I don't want to buy or use it :)
 

Offline spirantho

Re: New to Whdload what's The crack?
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2014, 07:13:40 AM »
I can see your point of view. But if WHDload hadn't had so much work put into it, the whole Amiga scene would have been massively deprived. Remember WHDload doesn't just install to HD. it also fixes most games to work on expanded systems.
It is a moral minefield as to the pricing and making profit from commercial games, but the benefits gained FAR outweigh the dubious nature of hacking the games in the first place. I'm all for protecting people's IP but in this case it doesn't cost anyone anything and allows us with pumped-up Miggies to still enjoy those games.

I'm right behind the WHDload guys in this one, and they deserve money for the amount of work they've put in which allows us to keep playing great Amiga games, even after the original disks have gone bad.It even lets us use our original disks on AmigaOS 4 machines (with a Catweasel :) )
--
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Check out my shop! http://www.mutant-caterpillar.co.uk/shop/ - for 8-bit (and soon 16-bit) goodness!
 

Offline superfrog76

Re: New to Whdload what's The crack?
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2014, 07:40:10 AM »
Spirantho, I agree that a lot of work went into WHDLoad, but at the same time, I would like to point out as example, the impact between WHDLoad, and Amiga forever. Which is totally in favor of the latter IMO.

WHDLoad gave the real amiga users, the chance to run games that would not run on the hd, and in some cases, make them run on configurations which would never be able to run certain games. AF on the other side, put a ton of work to make the emulated Amiga available to the masses....they both use the games written by others, but to me, AF value is much higher than WHDLoad; looking at what it does and what kind of impact has.

They cost almost the same..., but one sell you the right to use the original roms and run games/WB; while the other allow you to run games that would run  on floppy, in the worst case....or run games that honestly, are a minimal part of the whole catalog of Amiga games. Among the 2, I see value in AF, but not in WHDLoad, to justify that price.

On the moral issue, I think it is pretty much a personal opinion...most of the games running on the Amiga (emulated or real) are cracked anyway...if someone has no problems to download a ton of cracked games, has even less problems to pay someone to play them from the HD; if you catch my point. I don't have cracked images; the only ADF that I have are of the games that I had on floppy, and that I still have (except some cases, where the game itself does not exist anymore, altho the receipts that I paid are still somewhere in my archive for sure).

Far from blaming anyone! This is how I am, I do not criticize, judge or do the sermon, just because I act in this way. I am simply marking the fact that once that you go on a certain route (cracked games), then the whole subsequent reasoning may be warped by the first choices made.

In a certain way, also the crackers that cracked the games put a lot of work in what they did...altho some do work for the love of doing it, others for gaining money.

Maybe I am just too old fashioned :)
 

Offline spirantho

Re: New to Whdload what's The crack?
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2014, 10:38:55 AM »
I think the work done for WinUAE is probably pretty similar to the work done for WHDLoad, to be honest. They both took a truckload of work. AmigaForever I'm not sure about, I don't know it well enough to comment, but WinUAE is the guts of it.

You need to remember that WHDLoad isn't just the program that you're paying for - it's all the different installs. Hacking into a game, removing the copy protection, fixing compatibility and putting in onto the HD is a lot of work for one game, and how many does WHDLoad do? Tons!

As usual it's horses for courses, though - some will find more use in AF, some (like myself) find more use in WHDLoad. I think either is well worth the cash, especially as it's a fairly small wodge of dough that's required to register WHDLoad given the work gone into it.

Buy both of them. :) In fact, register all that shareware you've been using for the last year thinking "I really ought to get round to registering that someday" - we nearly all have at least one piece of shareware like that!
--
Ian Gledhill
ian.gledhill@btinternit.com (except it should be internEt of course...!)
Check out my shop! http://www.mutant-caterpillar.co.uk/shop/ - for 8-bit (and soon 16-bit) goodness!
 

Offline nicholas

Re: New to Whdload what's The crack?
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2014, 11:13:48 AM »
Quote from: superfrog76;757987
Spirantho, I agree that a lot of work went into WHDLoad, but at the same time, I would like to point out as example, the impact between WHDLoad, and Amiga forever. Which is totally in favor of the latter IMO.

WHDLoad gave the real amiga users, the chance to run games that would not run on the hd, and in some cases, make them run on configurations which would never be able to run certain games. AF on the other side, put a ton of work to make the emulated Amiga available to the masses....they both use the games written by others, but to me, AF value is much higher than WHDLoad; looking at what it does and what kind of impact has.

They cost almost the same..., but one sell you the right to use the original roms and run games/WB; while the other allow you to run games that would run  on floppy, in the worst case....or run games that honestly, are a minimal part of the whole catalog of Amiga games. Among the 2, I see value in AF, but not in WHDLoad, to justify that price.

On the moral issue, I think it is pretty much a personal opinion...most of the games running on the Amiga (emulated or real) are cracked anyway...if someone has no problems to download a ton of cracked games, has even less problems to pay someone to play them from the HD; if you catch my point. I don't have cracked images; the only ADF that I have are of the games that I had on floppy, and that I still have (except some cases, where the game itself does not exist anymore, altho the receipts that I paid are still somewhere in my archive for sure).

Far from blaming anyone! This is how I am, I do not criticize, judge or do the sermon, just because I act in this way. I am simply marking the fact that once that you go on a certain route (cracked games), then the whole subsequent reasoning may be warped by the first choices made.

In a certain way, also the crackers that cracked the games put a lot of work in what they did...altho some do work for the love of doing it, others for gaining money.

Maybe I am just too old fashioned :)

Amiga Forever free loads on the hard work of others and sells you the right to use ROMs that as an Amiga owner you already have the right to use. It also puts money in the pocket of that shyster Bill McEwen who destroyed any chance the Amiga had of making a comeback.

WHDLoad on the other hand is all the work of its authors.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline superfrog76

Re: New to Whdload what's The crack?
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2014, 11:24:00 AM »
WinUAE was written from the ground up to support UAE on windows; it is a frontend somehow, but has also more features than a simple skin on screen.
AF is another frontend, which goes on top of Winuae; it gives you rating system for the games, screenshots, manuals, box arts and much more (using their custom file system called rp9).

WinUAE is a lot of work; if you ever wrote an application for windows :) Same goes for AF. I am not sure about how much work goes into making an installer for Amiga; I leave the explanation to someone that knows this, to avoid and say something incorrect :)

I get your point; it is kinda like a person that write a game from the ground up, and a person that writes a mod...you won't really compare the work needed to make a full game, compared to a mod for a pre-existing game.

I know that it is not as simple, but I see similar patterns here. I never objected the usefulness of the WHDLoad project; just the moral premises and the fact that is priced as much as an application+roms+license to use an OS (WB is included in AF).

Then consider how many games you play ;) I count about 200 games, that I actually am interested in, and probably 40 that I play now and then...I understand that it is cool to have 4 Gb of games on WHDLoad, but it is not as important to me, due the fact that I don't use them, don't need them and I never purchased ALL the existing Amiga games :P

I do have AF already; I buy it every other year, since the beginning, but now that I have got again a real Amiga, I am more into buying software that can be useful to me :) For WHDLoad I don't think that I will buy it; I don't even have it on my partition, since I use the floppy :)

Maybe one day, they either stop to sell it, or change their method of distribution, from license based to donation based. In that case I may see an advantage in have it.
 

Offline nicholas

Re: New to Whdload what's The crack?
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2014, 11:32:09 AM »
Quote from: superfrog76;757995
WinUAE was written from the ground up to support UAE on windows; it is a frontend somehow, but has also more features than a simple skin on screen.
AF is another frontend, which goes on top of Winuae; it gives you rating system for the games, screenshots, manuals, box arts and much more (using their custom file system called rp9).

WinUAE is a lot of work; if you ever wrote an application for windows :) Same goes for AF. I am not sure about how much work goes into making an installer for Amiga; I leave the explanation to someone that knows this, to avoid and say something incorrect :)

I get your point; it is kinda like a person that write a game from the ground up, and a person that writes a mod...you won't really compare the work needed to make a full game, compared to a mod for a pre-existing game.

I know that it is not as simple, but I see similar patterns here. I never objected the usefulness of the WHDLoad project; just the moral premises and the fact that is priced as much as an application+roms+license to use an OS (WB is included in AF).

Then consider how many games you play ;) I count about 200 games, that I actually am interested in, and probably 40 that I play now and then...I understand that it is cool to have 4 Gb of games on WHDLoad, but it is not as important to me, due the fact that I don't use them, don't need them and I never purchased ALL the existing Amiga games :P

I do have AF already; I buy it every other year, since the beginning, but now that I have got again a real Amiga, I am more into buying software that can be useful to me :) For WHDLoad I don't think that I will buy it; I don't even have it on my partition, since I use the floppy :)

Maybe one day, they either stop to sell it, or change their method of distribution, from license based to donation based. In that case I may see an advantage in have it.

Maybe one day you'll change your software to be donation based too?

No? Why not?

And yes I've written mission critical software for windows (And UNIX, Linux, AS/400) so I know what goes into writing software.

The effort and skill that went into slapping AF together is nothing compared to WHDLoad.

I don't play games very often btw
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline superfrog76

Re: New to Whdload what's The crack?
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2014, 11:33:10 AM »
Quote from: nicholas;757994
Amiga Forever free loads on the hard work of others and sells you the right to use ROMs that as an Amiga owner you already have the right to use. It also puts money in the pocket of that shyster Bill McEwen who destroyed any chance the Amiga had of making a comeback.

WHDLoad on the other hand is all the work of its authors.


Well, they don't free load; they bought the license to have their name on that stuff, and paid royalties; which I don't think that WHDLoad did for any of the thousands of games available :)

I have the Amiga again now; but before I didn't...so I found the AF offer, legit and fitting my case. I was without the Amiga until I could get one again, so now I don't really need AF anymore (except when I am traveling and do not have the miggy with me).

Amiga was killed by so  many people; mainly from whoever took the games and distributed them...no income for programmers means that nobody sell stuff....which brings to a death of the hardware, because nobody likes to sell hardware without software available :)

I understand your negative feelings, but keep in mind that AF is Cloanto (the guys that made C1 Text and many other apps in the past); which has nothing to do with Amiga inc and their poor choices ;)

WHDLoad is all work of their authors, but without games doesn't do anything...AF is also work of their authors; and without roms and WB would still run (you would basically have a big DB of Amiga games, with pictures, music, box arts and manuals). I am comparing them just for the similar case in which they exist: they both piggyback on some other products, and somehow needs them to have a meaning...to exist.
 

Offline nicholas

Re: New to Whdload what's The crack?
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2014, 11:38:11 AM »
Quote from: superfrog76;757998
Well, they don't free load; they bought the license to have their name on that stuff, and paid royalties; which I don't think that WHDLoad did for any of the thousands of games available :)

I have the Amiga again now; but before I didn't...so I found the AF offer, legit and fitting my case. I was without the Amiga until I could get one again, so now I don't really need AF anymore (except when I am traveling and do not have the miggy with me).

Amiga was killed by so  many people; mainly from whoever took the games and distributed them...no income for programmers means that nobody sell stuff....which brings to a death of the hardware, because nobody likes to sell hardware without software available :)

I understand your negative feelings, but keep in mind that AF is Cloanto (the guys that made C1 Text and many other apps in the past); which has nothing to do with Amiga inc and their poor choices ;)

WHDLoad is all work of their authors, but without games doesn't do anything...AF is also work of their authors; and without roms and WB would still run (you would basically have a big DB of Amiga games, with pictures, music, box arts and manuals). I am comparing them just for the similar case in which they exist: they both piggyback on some other products, and somehow needs them to have a meaning...to exist.

WinUAE is GPL software and the  
Kickstart and Workbench come with every Amiga ever sold.

All AF does is take those things are free to all of us and slap on a crappy frontend and a price tag.  They are leeches.

I own a copy of it so I know what it consists of.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline superfrog76

Re: New to Whdload what's The crack?
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2014, 11:39:46 AM »
Quote from: nicholas;757997
Maybe one day you'll change your software to be donation based too?

No? Why not?

And yes I've written mission critical software for windows (And UNIX, Linux, AS/400) so I know what goes into writing software.

The effort and skill that went into slapping AF together is nothing compared to WHDLoad.

I don't play games very often btw


I may change my software distribution paradigm; depends from the choices made at certain point in time....I participated in drivers for linux distributions too; and I never asked for a penny...I wrote utilities and never tried to make money on them, because it was quite dumb to me to ask for 1 buck for a utility used by sys admins for their operations.

If I write an application for Amiga, I would not sell it. Even less if it would need some other software for which I do not own rights to use, nor I was authorized to modify.

IF I can get the code of AF and WHDLoad, I may be able to tell how much effort goes in it, but without see the code; I can simply theorize and assume; which does nothing good in the end.

The effort was never under discussion btw
 

Offline superfrog76

Re: New to Whdload what's The crack?
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2014, 11:48:12 AM »
Quote from: nicholas;757999
WinUAE is GPL software and the  
Kickstart and Workbench come with every Amiga ever sold.

All AF does is take those things are free to all of us and slap on a crappy frontend and a price tag.  They are leeches.

I own a copy of it so I know what it consists of.


Yes, GPL, which is different from a copyrighted game, which has to be disassembled, reverse engineered, to remove protections and make it work and install with WHDLoad. That's one of my problems in dealing with such software.

AF takes roms and AmigaOS 3.0, for which has paid licenses and rights to distribute them, to people that do not have an Amiga...by law you are required to either own the rom and the software, to use it on an emulator, or you need to buy a license, like the one that AF has. I fail to see the "leeching" here.

The front end takes time to be written; as easy as it could be, the fact that me or you would be able to make a similar frontend with the same features with visual studio, doesn't mean necessarily that is a small feature, don't you think?

I am not defending them, just pointing out that they did legally everything right, and even made the effort to make a frontend for Amiga enthusiasts. After all these people used to write software for Amiga, so they care about it, don't you think?

Now, since I have a real Amiga again, the point in using it is limited, but think about many people that wants to have LEGALLY a copy of the roms and AOS; they can actually do it thanks to AF.

Or is better to get all fro free on bit torrent? In which case I fail to see why then WHDLoad should be different.

Anyway; I simply opened up my inner thoughts here; I don't want to discourage anyone to buy WHDLoad, since it seems loved by so many people. I just want to be sure that I don't break the law in any way, or somehow break my ethical code.
 

Offline nicholas

Re: New to Whdload what's The crack?
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2014, 11:51:47 AM »
Quote from: superfrog76;758000
I may change my software distribution paradigm; depends from the choices made at certain point in time....I participated in drivers for linux distributions too; and I never asked for a penny...I wrote utilities and never tried to make money on them, because it was quite dumb to me to ask for 1 buck for a utility used by sys admins for their operations.

If I write an application for Amiga, I would not sell it. Even less if it would need some other software for which I do not own rights to use, nor I was authorized to modify.

IF I can get the code of AF and WHDLoad, I may be able to tell how much effort goes in it, but without see the code; I can simply theorize and assume; which does nothing good in the end.

The effort was never under discussion btw


Really?

You wrote:
Quote
'WinUAE is a lot of work; if you ever wrote an application for windows Same goes for AF.


You think the crappy VB-esque front end they put together is even close to the work put into WinUAE which is free of charge and without which AF would have no product, yet you moan about WHDLoad not working without the games people have already paid for.

As I said, they are leeches that freeload on the work of others.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini