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AuthorTopic: Building A Website  (Read 4848 times)

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Offline Karlos

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2012, 11:44:43 PM »
Quote from: Kesa;694505
Good point. Maybe you should consult with Karlos. I think he did a version of this website designed to be used by classic miggies.

Well, I'm more of a web application developer and server-side / backend at that. The "site" you are referring to is a proxy application that simply sits between your oldschool amiga browser and this site. There's very little HTML involved, 99% of what it does is regular expression text processing...

Anyway, to reiterate, a text editor and some basic grasp of HTML is all you need to get started making web pages.
int p; // A
 

Offline scuzzb494

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2012, 11:45:11 PM »
This page from my website was created totally on the Amiga...

http://www.commodore-amiga-retro.com/amiga/a_moa_01.htm

The image was captured on the Amiga using a screen grabber application, from DPaint V. And then converted from IFF to PNG using PPaint 6.4 The page edited using CED and uploaded using mFTP

Offline _ThEcRoW

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2012, 12:29:05 AM »
The thing i hate the most on webpages are the abuse of javascript, that is the tendency from years till now. I have seen pages that had an insanely amount of library and script calls, only to show an image or piece of text. Javascript is one thing that is needed too drop, for better browsing and security.

@commodorejohn

Checked your page and liked the simple, but completely functional layout. I liked it!
Amiga 1200 desktop. Apollo 030/50 Mhz 8mb ram + ClassicWB + Wb 3.1
Amiga 500 + ACA500Plus + 16gb CF | ECS Power!!!
C64 DTV + Keyboard mod. Waiting for a 1541 disk ve...
Mac Mini G4 1.42Ghz 1gb OSX(tiger)/Morphos 3.7 Registered
C64mini + usb drive with loads of games...
 

Offline commodorejohn

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2012, 12:50:58 AM »
Quote from: _ThEcRoW;694834
The thing i hate the most on webpages are the abuse of javascript, that is the tendency from years till now. I have seen pages that had an insanely amount of library and script calls, only to show an image or piece of text. Javascript is one thing that is needed too drop, for better browsing and security.
Ugh, yes. Unfortunately I don't think it's possible to drop it completely, as there are some legitimate uses for in-browser scripting, but it's so widely and horribly abused that the only way I can browse the web without wanting to pull my hair out is to use NoScript and unblock only the sites where I have no choice but to allow it...

Quote
@commodorejohn

Checked your page and liked the simple, but completely functional layout. I liked it!
Thanks :) I tried to come up with something minimalist, my previous attempt was a bit of a mess. I figured, if it renders usably in Links, it's probably a passable design...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2012, 06:48:44 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;694814
Really? I'd have thought that tables, properly applied (and by "properly applied" I mean "used to organize tables of information, and not as a poor man's layout tool,") would if anything be an aid to specialty readers...


Listen to Karlos. There are so many benefits from keeping the content separated from the layout/graphical design, you do that in CSS. Tables are not evil per se, they are great at what they are meant for — presenting a set of data in the shape of a table with columns and rows. But using tables for layout and graphical design in a web page is as kosher as using rolled up tin-foil as electric cabling when building a new house, or using glued together straws from McDonalds as your plumbing. Even if it might work, you simply don't do that, even the thought is insane, and has been so for a *veeery* long time now...
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2012, 07:49:14 AM »
Quote from: Karlos;694830
Anyway, to reiterate, a text editor and some basic grasp of HTML is all you need to get started making web pages.


...and when your site validates all-green here (preferably as XHTML 1.0 Strict if possible, for best accessibility)...

http://validator.w3.org/
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

...you have come from start to finish! :)

A good source for reference info:
http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asp
http://www.w3schools.com/css/default.asp
http://www.w3schools.com/css3/default.asp
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline jsixis

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2012, 01:59:20 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;694815
Historically, the complete opposite tends to be the case, though newer screen readers have gotten rather better at parsing badly-formatted stuff. Regardless of which, a clean, well structured HTML document is always going to be far more accessible than a soup of nested tables.

Other reasons for avoiding table based layouts, especially nested tables, are the impact they have on page render speed. More often than not, they tend to require repeated recalculation of the page or complete retrieval of the page markup before the page can be laid out.



 BS I run a website and after the index page it is all tables and loads faster then most video cards can draw it. http://www.cowtownmusic.com/musicians.html
 

Offline Karlos

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2012, 02:13:02 PM »
Quote from: jsixis;694860
BS I run a website and after the index page it is all tables and loads faster then most video cards can draw it. http://www.cowtownmusic.com/musicians.html


The only reason your page is fast is because you are using tables for what they were intended - displaying tabular data. There's not much "tables for layout" evident in your HTML markup.

Speaking of which, you might want to tidy that up a bit, it's pretty bad.

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cowtownmusic.com%2Fmusicians.html
int p; // A
 

Offline Templario

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2012, 03:03:51 PM »
To handle pictures as change the size, format, visual effects as Grey scale, sharpen, rotate, etc., and runs on Amiga 68k with graphic card is available AHIW 1.02 here:
http://www.morguesoft.eu/Paginas/Downloads.htm

And soon with new features too as watermark or put text in your pictures for example the url of your site.
Amiga 500 with ROMs 1.3-2.05 and M-Tec AT 500 with hard disk and 4MB Ram.
WinUAE + Original OS 3.5&3.9
Sam440ep 800 MHZ + OS 4.1 F.E.
Sam460ex 1 GHz + OS 4.1 + Update 6. K.O.
MacMini 1.5 GHz + MorphOS 3.9
PowerBook G4 1.65 + MorphOS 3.9
 

Offline Rebel-CD32

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2012, 02:04:48 AM »
I've made a bunch of web pages on my Amiga over the years, and even now if I were to make a new one I'd still use WebPlug and IBrowse to create and test it because I like my sites to be compatible for other Amiga users too.

I used to own and drive a 1988 Holden Camira and found other guys online who drove them and we started a bit of a club, and from there I made a website with information and support for other owners of these old bombs. I gave up on the site several years ago after I rolled my Camira, so the site was left unmaintained and eventually disappeared. I found one of my backups of the site and uploaded it for you to see. I'll also take a screenshot of the site in IBrowse and Chrome to show how they look beside each other.

http://home.exetel.com.au/amiga/CamiraOrg/

I used tables and frames, and learned everything I know about HTML from CU Amiga magazine tutorials and reading through other sites source code.

Here's the screenshot from my A1200:

« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 07:06:13 AM by Rebel-CD32 »
Amiga user forever.
 

Offline koaftder

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2012, 08:00:42 AM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;694845
Listen to Karlos. There are so many benefits from keeping the content separated from the layout/graphical design, you do that in CSS. Tables are not evil per se, they are great at what they are meant for — presenting a set of data in the shape of a table with columns and rows. But using tables for layout and graphical design in a web page is as kosher as using rolled up tin-foil as electric cabling when building a new house, or using glued together straws from McDonalds as your plumbing. Even if it might work, you simply don't do that, even the thought is insane, and has been so for a *veeery* long time now...


Got to admit that doing effective design with CSS has a higher learning curve than just plain old HTML. It's pretty often that people just getting their feet wet have no idea where to start and when they try to layout elements they wind up with wildly bizarre stuff on the screen. DIVs in weird places, overlapping, bizarre flow problems, etc. Bad CSS layouts have a tendency to work right on one class of browsers and look screwed up on others. Folks run into these frustrations early on and often simply dismiss it all as overly complicated. Then they go back to spending tens of hours creating unmaintainable, rats nest table based abominations that look like something from the late 90's.

Same thing on the Javascript side of the fence. They have no idea where to start so they plod on slogging through tutorials, which are usually written by idiots and morons, trying to do animations, UI stuff and Javascript from scratch, and it never works right. They then conclude that JS is an abomination, unnecessarily complex and go back to either straight up static design, or trying to crank out rats nests of table crap with 5,000 line PHP cluster fscks.

They don't know how to do REST stuff with JSON, make use of JQuery, or start off with one of the 20 billion CSS templates laying around.
 

Offline jsixis

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2012, 01:09:20 AM »
http://www.cowtownmusic.com is 100% built by an amiga, pretty dated as I did it 12 years ago.