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AuthorTopic: Building A Website  (Read 4878 times)

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Offline Gulliver

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2012, 07:16:09 AM »
Well, if you want to use an Amiga you could also use some of the Amiga web page creation programs such as Webplug, Pagemonster, Metalweb, etc

On the other hand, I remember back in 1995 we had a client that wanted to build his big company website. At that point in time, web designers were non existant marketwise in my country. So we hired a graphic designer who created the website just as a set of images. I remember spending lot of time reducing their colors just to cope with the low bandwith Internet had those days, and adding the basic html tags with a text editor to build the actual GIF based website :D
 

Offline nyteschayde

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Re: Building A Website
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2012, 07:22:15 AM »
Heavy use of tables and imagery are how old sites were made pretty. I remember doing them well.

Quote from: Gulliver;694535
Well, if you want to use an Amiga you could also use some of the Amiga web page creation programs such as Webplug, Pagemonster, Metalweb, etc

On the other hand, I remember back in 1995 we had a client that wanted to build his big company website. At that point in time, web designers were non existant marketwise in my country. So we hired a graphic designer who created the website just as a set of images. I remember spending lot of time reducing their colors just to cope with the low bandwith Internet had those days, and adding the basic html tags with a text editor to build the actual GIF based website :D
Senior MTS Software Engineer with PayPal
Amigas: A1200T 060/603e PPC • A1200T 060 • A4000D 040 • A3000 (x2) • A2000 Vamp/V2 • A1200 (x4) • A1000 (x3) • A600 Vamp/V1 • A500
 

Offline Amiten

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2012, 01:37:11 PM »
Amiten TV - Amiga Channel
http://www.youtube.com/clubamiten
 

Offline persia

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2012, 02:06:59 PM »
But the website would be far more useful if you used html and put it on the net.

Quote from: Piru;694500
You can create websites with pen and paper, or any text editor.
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Offline persia

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2012, 02:11:49 PM »
I had to put something up on a site quickly the other day and used a table, made me cringe.  If anyone asks me, it's one of my student assistants who did it. ;)

Quote from: nyteschayde;694533
Yeah, nobody really uses tables if they can help it these days. Thats the main reason I have so much trouble even contemplating writing a site that's Amiga-pretty. That and not being able to use CSS.
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Offline commodorejohn

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2012, 03:59:12 PM »
It amuses me how modern web designers react to tables like vampires to crucifixes :D
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline vox

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2012, 01:18:32 AM »
Quote from: TheMud;694499
Ok. Maybe this is a stupod question. But if you dont ask you'll never know :-)

Is it possible to build complete websites with the Amiga ? My A-4000 is bored and I want to let it work a little again. Could I make a site like this I have made a complete game site before. But on my make with Dreamweaver - Thats easy... :-/ But want to program a complete site now.

Is there flash support for Amiga ? Or something that lets flash work ?


For AmigaOS 3.x only graphic editor is old MetalWeb
http://aminet.net/search?name=MetalWeb
and some small tools
http://magliery.com/HTMLEditors/amigalist.html

If you use OS4 there is Amaya for it
http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=network/misc/amaya.lha

If you really know HTML you can use text editors. See old discussion here
http://www.amiga.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-552.html
http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5206&forum=3&post_id=69586

Anyway, no Java, no Flash, no fanciness
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Offline nyteschayde

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Re: Building A Website
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2012, 06:10:08 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;694605
It amuses me how modern web designers react to tables like vampires to crucifixes :D

Using tables takes extra typing, and provides much less flexibility in CSS; primarily because those elements (THEAD, TBODY, TR, TD) are less susceptible to styling.

The same or a more flexible layout can be had with a couple of DIVs or SPANs in combination with CSS. Even using display: table|table-cell on non table elements can be more flexible and enjoyable than coding up a bunch of behemoth table elements.
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Offline zylesea

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2012, 11:31:23 AM »
Quote from: TheMud;694499
Ok. Maybe this is a stupod question. But if you dont ask you'll never know :-)

Is it possible to build complete websites with the Amiga ? My A-4000 is bored and I want to let it work a little again. Could I make a site like this I have made a complete game site before. But on my make with Dreamweaver - Thats easy... :-/ But want to program a complete site now.

Is there flash support for Amiga ? Or something that lets flash work ?


You can do much web stuff on Amiga. A few things don't work (flash, java applets) and there are no up to date WYSIWYG editors, but other fine tools. I actually like CubicIDE/webworld. I do all my stuff with that. It's enough for my needs (see e. g. http://www.via-altera.de).
I don't do complex things though, just plain html/css (plus a very little php).
I like creating pages with an editor but I also tested big frameworks like Joomla (backend is nicely usable with OWB). Eventually I found them too heavy and complex for my basic needs, hence I stick with rather easy and hand coded html/css as long as I don't need a big site.
Without a browser that is CSS capable it is rather a PITA today. A few years ago (before Sputnik and OWB) I did all my things table based - works, but is nowhere flexible and reproducible as CSS is.

Offline takemehomegrandma

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2012, 11:49:47 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;694605
It amuses me how modern web designers react to tables like vampires to crucifixes :D


For *very* good reasons...
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline commodorejohn

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2012, 03:30:05 PM »
Quote from: nyteschayde;694756
Using tables takes extra typing, and provides much less flexibility in CSS; primarily because those elements (THEAD, TBODY, TR, TD) are less susceptible to styling.

The same or a more flexible layout can be had with a couple of DIVs or SPANs in combination with CSS. Even using display: table|table-cell on non table elements can be more flexible and enjoyable than coding up a bunch of behemoth table elements.
That's a fair point from a "how to approach a new design" perspective, but I still don't quite get the horror with which tables in existing sites are reacted to...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline Karlos

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2012, 09:43:21 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;694780
That's a fair point from a "how to approach a new design" perspective, but I still don't quite get the horror with which tables in existing sites are reacted to...

That's perhaps because you aren't visually impaired. Proper site design, in which the logical structure of the document comes first and layout is achieved purely via CSS produces pages that are far more accessible to Braille output devices and other non-visual browsers.

I've made use of tables for layout in the past for personal projects, but never for any sort of public facing site, except when rendering data which are by their very nature, tabular.
int p; // A
 

Offline commodorejohn

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2012, 09:52:09 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;694812
That's perhaps because you aren't visually impaired. Proper site design, in which the logical structure of the document comes first and layout is achieved purely via CSS produces pages that are far more accessible to Braille output devices and other non-visual browsers.
Really? I'd have thought that tables, properly applied (and by "properly applied" I mean "used to organize tables of information, and not as a poor man's layout tool,") would if anything be an aid to specialty readers...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline Karlos

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2012, 09:57:09 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;694814
Really? I'd have thought that tables, properly applied, would if anything be an aid to specialty readers...


Historically, the complete opposite tends to be the case, though newer screen readers have gotten rather better at parsing badly-formatted stuff. Regardless of which, a clean, well structured HTML document is always going to be far more accessible than a soup of nested tables.

Other reasons for avoiding table based layouts, especially nested tables, are the impact they have on page render speed. More often than not, they tend to require repeated recalculation of the page or complete retrieval of the page markup before the page can be laid out.
int p; // A
 

Offline djrikki

Re: Building A Website
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2012, 11:03:34 PM »
If I wanted to develop a website using Amiga, and particularly AmigaOS4+ I'd use AAMP with PhpMyAdmin installed, Codebench (looking forward to the HTML/CSS/PHP/FTP functionality!) and AmiFTP.

Suppose MorphOS users can use Scribble and an FTP client, not sure an AMP stack is available yet for MorphOS - feel free to correct me as my knowledge of MorphOS is next to non-existent.

Ofc lets not forget you could use a CMS-instead e.g. Drupal, WordPress and Joomla to name, but a few.  Drupal and WordPress are great in both a local install (yes I've tried them) and remote side - just a little on the slow side- especially WordPress.

Personally, I must admit I do use Dreamweaver, however I completely ignore the WYSIWYG side of it - I use a separate commercial product instead for building CSS.  Dreamweaver is useful for a) syntax highlighting and b) the help-as-you-type functionality.  From time-to-time I like to fallback to TextWrangler and Cyberduck as they are no-where near as resource-heavy.

RE: Table usage.  Another reason to avoid tables is for SEO reasons, Google in particular.

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« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 11:08:01 PM by djrikki »