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AuthorTopic: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community  (Read 19152 times)

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Offline Matt_H

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2011, 03:21:15 PM »
@ BigBenAussie

Keep it simple, you say? I'm interested in a new keyboard that looks exactly like this (or in black; branding not necessary) that I can plug into my Amiga's keyboard port or a USB port.
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2011, 03:50:26 PM »
áccording to this news item on aw.net
   
   http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6175
   
    ive opened an attempt on a dediacted poll as to investigate the common groud the amiga scene would agree as a contemporary solution if such was not available or not satisfactionary.
   
  http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=34807&start=0&post_id=643972&order=0&viewmode=flat&pid=0&forum=44#643972
   
 note that the poll doent appear on the aw front page.
   
    supporting natami and other 68k fpga solutions like fpgaarcade as well as custom amiga case design are an option. feel free to choose.
 

Offline Amiga_Nut

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #32 on: December 20, 2011, 04:13:46 PM »
Specification is simple.

I want a machine that costs no more than a PS3, but has superior abilities to a £1200 i7 PC gaming rig.

And it must not run on Mac OSX/Linux/Windows of any kind.

How you implement this is up to you, I don't care.

As for people asking for 68k based machine are you also stipulating such a low powered PoS system must cost less than £30? If not then are you on drugs?

Why would I want to run games at the speed of a 386/486 PC in 2011 you loonies! :roflmao:
 

Offline Duce

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Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2011, 04:25:24 PM »
They aren't being received much better on AW than they are here.

Perhaps the community got the hint when we were told by C-USA for a year now that "we aren't their target market" and insulted us, lol.
 

Offline anglosaxonusa

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2011, 04:46:08 PM »
Quote from: save2600;672000
Pretty much was going to be my response. I'd like to see all that jammed into an original A1000 case. A1000 keyboard and tank style mouse could be wireless too. CF and SD card slot could be hidden discretely behind a panel, where the 1050 normally sat.  :)

Yes.  Here's how that could be done cheaply:

Commodore USA buys Model-M clone keyboards from Unicomp.  The stock keyboard enclosure is jettisoned.  Commodore USA designs a replacement enclosure that is extended in the rear similar to the A1200 or A500.  Natami or other 68k hardware is integrated in the same enclosure as the keyboard.  The end result is that the new Amiga looks similar to a classic Amiga *and* has a bulletproof buckling spring keyboard mechanism.  In other words, it has the look and feel of a well built classic machine.  As a bonus, Model M parts are widely produced and readily available for repairs, etc.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 04:52:13 PM by anglosaxonusa »
 

Offline anglosaxonusa

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2011, 04:49:24 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;671999
Is he serious? Just in case he is, here's a 100% serious answer:

This "Numiga" project or whatever it winds up being called should be 68k-based. Whether that means an FPGA reimplementation like Natami or if there's some particular ColdFire model that doesn't have the existing ColdFire incompatibilities, or even a plain-old-silicon 68k CPU, I don't care. Just give me an 030/040 with an MMU and FPU running at a peppy clock speed.

It should feature audio and video hardware designed in the spirit of the Amiga chipset, i.e. providing capability through general openness and flexibility. I'm not going to get anal about whether it's truly custom or simply an array of existing parts, as long as it provides a similarly flexible-but-friendly approach to use. An OCS/AGA compatibility mode would be ideal, but if that's not possible, then it can be done in software, I guess.

It should not simply be "a Linux box." If CUSA is (as I've heard) legally prevented from bundling AROS with an "Amiga" branded product, they should at least provide the AROS devs with full hardware documentation so it can be easily ported, and direct buyers to check it out on their website and in the manuals (to whatever extent this is legally feasible.)

Above all, it should not be either a PC clone or an attempt to be a "modern" non-PC clone that puts keeping up with the Joneses ahead of being an interesting, elegant, and affordable system.

Give me something that fits those criteria, and I'll be first in line. I mean that.

+1

If you want the community's help, help the community bring back the 68k.
 

Offline XDelusion

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2011, 04:54:30 PM »
The ONLY way I will support the PC route is if Amithlon is somehow magically resurrected and allowed to develop upon the road map that was planned for it before it was killed off.
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline commodorejohn

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2011, 04:57:55 PM »
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;672063
I want a machine that costs no more than a PS3, but has superior abilities to a £1200 i7 PC gaming rig.
And while we're dreaming, I'd like a pony.

Quote
As for people asking for 68k based machine are you also stipulating such a low powered PoS system must cost less than £30? If not then are you on drugs?

Why would I want to run games at the speed of a 386/486 PC in 2011 you loonies!
No, I'm willing to pay a moderate sum for it. As for why, I don't care why you would want to, I want it because I find the idea a million times more interesting than some generic x86 box.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline Middleman

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2011, 05:18:27 PM »
I applaud Leo for coming out and asking this question. At least it is allowing everyone to vent their views and opinions (barring the negativity etc). As even I have my thoughts. If we can get past this…. :)

As I have said before, I have come to believe the Amiga line-up maybe should be split into two parts - a Classic Amiga (to please all retro fans) and a new x86 futuristic-looking Amiga PC either with native AmigaOS functionality built-in to the kernel for the mainstream market (lookup the latest Amithlon Revival Project with Linux kernel). Giving both choices to the market allows people to choose. But most importantly, makes the Amiga brand unique again and not just some 'clone'.

Personally I am in favour of two things. One system that is something akin to a retro A1200 AIO with a Natami/FPGA board or maybe a A1000 replica/A4000T replica - this is something I'd like to buy. An A1000/A4000T replica with a fully working X1000 based board could even be a neat idea.

For the second an x86 system, a new A500 based on the RG Marett designed casing with DVD slot loading drive would be a great model to have - that is something I seriously would like on my desk! If not, one based on your A1000 retro black unit would be ok, complete with the Model M keyboard and black optical wireless 1351 mouse, barring the open sockets on the bottom and huge Amiga logo (which should be shrunk). These would be great additions.

As for software for running these new 'old' machines esp. the Natami versions, I would suggest as companies you try to collaborate on some way where we as users could 'digitally download/buy' all the old games online to transfer them to the new systems (since disk drives are used less nowadays). Architecture is important but so is delivery. And we can't work our machines without software…

As for the x86 system, the bog standard Commodore OS is fine. But if there is a way for Amithlon/Umilator, AROS or AmigaOS to work on the x86 system then all the better….
 

Offline Amiga_Nut

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2011, 05:27:49 PM »
IMO If we are going to have rice pudding performance it must be cheap, ie as cheap as buying a crappy 4000/030 on ebay today (about £250).

As for the OS it has to have an option to look either like Workbench 1.x and Workbench 2.x
 

Offline dammy

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2011, 05:30:03 PM »
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;672063
Specification is simple.

I want a machine that costs no more than a PS3, but has superior abilities to a £1200 i7 PC gaming rig.


I think it's been made clear enough, total cost divided by number of orders (minimum of 500 total) is what the final cost is going to be.  You want exotic never been seen before hardware, expect to pay actual costs for it.  If you want the cost lower per unit, get more then 500 people to put their money where their mouths are.
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself.
 

Offline vox

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2011, 05:33:28 PM »
9. If Commodore USA does not perform the required work in 6 months of the project commencement date, then the 500+ customers have the option to withdraw immediately for a full refund of their prepayment.
14. In the meantime, Commodore USA will potentially continue with its current x86 based Commodore AMIGA plans, that will co-exist with the community's desired Commodore AMIGA branded product/s.


Six months you play, while they conquer with the "clone wars"
Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way! http://www.youtube.com/user/rasvoja and https://www.facebook.com/rasvoja
 

Offline Amiga_Nut

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2011, 05:33:52 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;672070
And while we're dreaming, I'd like a pony.


No, I'm willing to pay a moderate sum for it. As for why, I don't care why you would want to, I want it because I find the idea a million times more interesting than some generic x86 box.


Why not just buy a £200 A4000/030 from ebay then? Why bother.

As for the other comment, if I was paying i7 prices and essentially the entire dev cost is guaranteed via 500+ minimum pre-payments held in Escrow I expect something amazing. So if they did a machine costing £400-800 thats £200,000 to £400,000 waiting to be collected on day one, and that's ignoring future sales.

You know what, I think the best thing is if they just build reasonably priced replica cases for use with ATX/Micro ATX and sell them for a reasonable profit (ie max price £100 for the cases) and we can make our own Amiga's inside be it Natami or x86 + WinUAE.

Cases I would like recreated are A600, A1000, A1200, A3000. I can live with never seeing an A500 or A2000 case for the rest of my life.

(Commodore 486 PCs used Amiga 4000 cases anyway so not bothered).

My personal opinion though, apart from making cases and selling them to us, is Commodore USA just don't have the kind of talent in their employment to make a new Amiga. And seeing as this thread exists they don't really have the imagination either as we are being asked to tell them what they should make :)
 

Offline commodorejohn

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2011, 05:38:24 PM »
Quote from: Amiga_Nut;672077
Why not just buy a £200 A4000/030 from ebay then? Why bother.
Because A. I'd like to get actual new hardware that has a potential longer lifespan, and more importantly B. it doesn't have to be just what an A4000 is; NatAmi has already exceeded the capabilities of old Amiga hardware, and they're not even finished yet.

Quote
My personal opinion though, apart from making cases and selling them to us, is Commodore USA just don't have the kind of talent in their employment to make a new Amiga. And seeing as this thread exists they don't really have the imagination either as we are being asked to tell them what they should make :)
Probably not, but as long as we're talking hypotheticals, I'll give a straight (hypothetical) answer.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline lsmart

Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
« Reply #44 on: December 20, 2011, 06:18:33 PM »
Quote from: Transition;671998
1. The community must definitively decide, through polls or whatever, what exactly it wants a Commodore AMIGA from Commodore USA to be.

I don´t think this is ever going to happen. It´s hard enough to get two Amigans to agree on anything. You might get 500+ orders from them, if you present them with something nice, but I don´t think you can let them decide what it will be.

Being from germany myself I have refrained from ordering the new Commodore 64 and got something else instead, because there is always trouble with international shipping, so I wouldn´t buy anything unless it is distributed in the EU. I however run CommodoreOS (linux mint) on my laptop - exclusively at the moment, because the installer was buggy and deleted Windows from it, even though I selected to install in the other partition (which was the bigger one anyways and therefore preselected).

I wouldn´t make a product for the community - especially not on Amiga.org where you get funny flamewars between red / blue / Natami. The only thing the community agrees on, is that some time in the past, somebody at Amiga definitively got it right. But there is no consensus as to who or when - but Jay Miner is a strong candidate...

So if you really want to play it safe: Build an Amiga 1000 like machine with AGA & RTG in an A2000 tower case with a keyboard garage, let it run on a quad core G5 PPC and be binary compatible to Amiga OS3.9 in hardware and support Amiga OS4.1 and OpenGL and make it play HD 3D Video from BlueRay.:razz:

Oh and sell it for 500$ or below as most of us don´t have as much pocket money as we used to.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 06:21:19 PM by lsmart »