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AuthorTopic: Timberwolf Progress Update  (Read 14480 times)

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Offline jorkany

Re: Timberwolf Progress Update
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2011, 03:23:59 PM »
Quote from: magnetic;653135
Good news. This project is the MOST important amiga project going hw or sw.

Are you kidding?

Go find an old-time Amiga user who hasn't been keeping up with things the past ten years. Explain to them that if they buy either something called a SAM for about $1000, or wait an indeterminate amount of time for something else they can buy called an X1000 for about $3000 from another company they've never heard of, then they can run a browser based on an old version of FireFox. If they can contain themselves then explain how this brings a whole host of Mozilla technology to something called OS4.

Let us know how excited they get. Better yet record it and post it on youtube.
 

Offline magnetic

Re: Timberwolf Progress Update
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2011, 08:39:13 AM »
Well  not sure how to field the statements above but I can tell you that when I used to have a nice studio in nyc a lot of graphic designers, motion gfx guys, 3d guys, audio, musicians, etc saw my amiga and pegasos setup they were blown away. Some even wanted me to put together a system for them, but when they find out no name or "modern" webbrowser it became not so serious. Do you understand now? I'm not talking about fanboys when I said FF is the most important project.
bPlan Pegasos2 G4@1ghz
Quad Boot:Reg. MorphOS | OS4.1 U4 |Ubuntu GNU-Linux | MacOS X

Amiga 2000 Rom Switcher w/ 3.1 + 1.3 | HardFrame SCSI | CBM Ram board| A Squared LIVE! 2000 | Vlab Motion | Firecracker 24 gfx

Commodore CDTV: 68010 | ECS | 9mb Ram | SCSI -TV | 3.9 Rom | Developer EPROMs
 

Offline buzz

Re: Timberwolf Progress Update
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2011, 02:37:22 PM »
Quote from: magnetic;653338
Well not sure how to field the statements above but I can tell you that when I used to have a nice studio in nyc a lot of graphic designers, motion gfx guys, 3d guys, audio, musicians, etc saw my amiga and pegasos setup they were blown away

what specifically were they impressed with? I'm just curious as such people would no doubt want to see some graphics software no?

also "blown" away and then not interested because of no modern web browser, makes me think they weren't that blown away anyway. then they find out there is no modern graphics software, or that they can run blender but it's way slow compared to their mums £200 pc ;-)
 

Offline koaftder

Re: Timberwolf Progress Update
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2011, 03:04:44 PM »
Quote from: buzz;653031
Yeh. usual amiga attitude. Do the bare minimum when it comes to sourcecode releases. (either no source, or as little as they can get away with) if everyone did this of course, there would be nothing to port to the Amiga. I realised I made some similar comments in another thread, but the source thing does keep coming up.. The attitude sucks.


They're probably just trying to avoid embarrassment.
 

Offline haywirepc

Re: Timberwolf Progress Update
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2011, 01:13:38 AM »
I think taking an open source project, porting it to amiga and then refusing to release their own source is if not illegal, certainly unethical and immoral.
 
I don't know the legalities, but its just wrong.
 
Steven
 

Offline dwaldrop

Re: Timberwolf Progress Update
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2011, 01:48:33 AM »
I believe that the Firefox code is tri-licensed.  Mozilla, GPL and the more permissive LGPL.  LGPL allows for "non-dirivative: work to be released without source.  However, if I understand LGPL correctly, it defines such a program as one that links (i.e. a DLL) or uses the original code as library only.

I too am not a lawyer, but I would think that writing a browser based on the Firefox code would not apply as listed in the LGPL.

Very disappointing...
 

Offline djrikki

Re: Timberwolf Progress Update
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2011, 02:05:29 AM »
Blah de blah de blah.

Timberwolf isn't even finished or released yet.  Stop whinging.

The stance on the source code is perfectly clear for all to read, see last sentence.

http://www.amigabounty.net/?function=viewproject&projectid=44

And yes it is the single most important piece of new software coming to an Amiga near you soon - unless of course you know something we don't.  If that is the case please do enlighten us! :p

Offline buzz

Re: Timberwolf Progress Update
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2011, 02:08:12 AM »
Quote from: dwaldrop;653445

I too am not a lawyer, but I would think that writing a browser based on the Firefox code would not apply as listed in the LGPL.


I believe the Mozilla license allows new sources to be close/private. But it isn't particularly in the spirit of things.
 

Offline buzz

Re: Timberwolf Progress Update
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2011, 02:13:25 AM »
Quote from: djrikki;653446
And yes it is the single most important piece of new software coming to an Amiga near you soon - unless of course you know something we don't.  If that is the case please do enlighten us! :p

personally, I'm far more interested in the next Amiga demo release.

[edit]. porting it is an impressive feat of course, and I respect their abilities. But I guess my interests in the Amiga don't include browsing the web (Which my pc does perfectly well). For those that "only" have computers with the "Amiga" brand, im sure it will be useful. (you loons!).
« Last Edit: August 07, 2011, 04:17:23 AM by buzz »
 

guest7146

  • Guest
Re: Timberwolf Progress Update
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2011, 08:17:29 AM »
Quote from: buzz;653031
Yeh. usual amiga attitude. Do the bare minimum when it comes to sourcecode releases. The attitude sucks.

The creator(s) of any software have sole ownership of their project, and it is absolutely their choice whether they decide to release their work as open or closed source.  

I'm getting the impression that you're one of those people who believe that software writers have an obligation to release their work on an open source licence and that to do it any other way is somehow incorrect, unfair and unacceptable.  Would this be a fair summary of your feelings? You're not alone.  Lots of people seem to think this way.  Software development is the only sector that appears to attract this attitude, for some reason.

The reality is that there's no correct or incorrect way to licence software.  The developers take a decision about how they want to do it based upon the situation that suits them the best.  They're the ones who have spent significant amounts of their time on the project (time being the most valuable asset of all) and, as such, it is absolutely their prerogative.

Personally, I can't for the life of me understand why a user feels he has the right to critisise the decision, as it has nothing to do with him.  Unless he's spent his own precious time on the project (or perhaps financed it in another way, but time is the most precious investment of all), then really he has no say in it at all! This is absolutely fair.

I don't currently work on any Amiga related projects, but I do undertake some software and hardware development on other projects and I have a tendancy to release my work on an open source licence because that's what generally suits me the best.  But they are my projects and, on a project by project basis, it's absolutely my decision to make.  Nobody else has a say in it, and I don't feel that anyone else is in a position to take me to task on it.  Anyone who doesn't like my decision, is free to invest their own time on their own project and then the decision will be theirs instead.

And, at the end of the day, we should really think ourselves lucky (as users) that someone has invested their own personal time to bring the Firefox project to fruition.  Let's be honest, it didn't look as if anyone else was going to do it.

AH
 

guest7146

  • Guest
Re: Timberwolf Progress Update
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2011, 08:28:35 AM »
Quote from: buzz;653118
it's an incredibly complicated thing to port, and quite probably beyond me for sure,

Yes, you're right, porting Firefox is a big project.  If it weren't, someone else would have done it already.  This means that it requires a huge investment in terms of time, and as I've already mentioned, time is precious.

You said that you thought the project was beyond you.  It's probably not beyond you (assuming you're of average intelligence which is a fair assumption to make), but in order for you to have any chance of getting to grips with the project you'll first need to learn to program.  You don't necessarily need a degree in the subject, but you certainly need to aggressively self study.  And I don't mean by getting yourself a "learn to program in X in 24 hours book".  I'm talking about a 10 year aggressive investment in learning - that's how long it takes to become a good programmer, the same as any other specialty.

After that you can start on the Firefox project, and that'll be another x number of years of investment.

That's a big investment, I think you'll agree.

AH
 

Offline buzz

Re: Timberwolf Progress Update
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2011, 08:34:20 AM »
Quote from: AppleHammer;653481
The creator(s) of any software have sole ownership of their project, and it is absolutely their choice whether they decide to release their work as open or closed source.  

I'm getting the impression that you're one of those people who believe that software writers have an obligation to release their work on an open source licence and that to do it any other way is somehow incorrect, unfair and unacceptable.  Would this be a fair summary of your feelings? You're not alone.  Lots of people seem to think this way.  Software development is the only sector that appears to attract this attitude, for some reason.


not at all. my point is not the license that people choose for their own work, but that Amiga developers love to utilize other peoples open source, and do their best to avoid releasing the changes. in this case, they are using a clause in the mozilla license to not release their "new parts". yes it is their decision to make, but it isn't in the spirit of things, and especially since Amiga developers benefit so much from all the open source available, it seems crap they never manage to give anything back (or to share code with the other amiga platforms). and we are also talking about a commercially dead platform here (in any real sense, im sure many will not agree) where people quite often ditch projects and are never to be seen again, so I do think open source can help in some cases.
 

guest7146

  • Guest
Re: Timberwolf Progress Update
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2011, 08:34:36 AM »
Quote from: buzz;653448
But I guess my interests in the Amiga don't include browsing the web

I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on you here - because I'm not - but I had to comment on this last statement as well.

If you're saying that you don't really care about browsing the web on the Amiga, then presumably you couldn't care less whether Firefox is ported or not?

That being the case, why do you care about the licence it is released under, if you wouldn't care if it had never been released?

AH
 

Offline buzz

Re: Timberwolf Progress Update
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2011, 08:36:17 AM »
Quote from: AppleHammer;653483
That's a big investment, I think you'll agree.

Sure - and I am actually a developer who invests a LOT of his free time in open projects. (almost all actually!)
 

Offline buzz

Re: Timberwolf Progress Update
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2011, 08:40:55 AM »
Quote from: AppleHammer;653485
That being the case, why do you care about the licence it is released under, if you wouldn't care if it had never been released?


Because I put a lot of time into developing on open projects, benefit greatly from open source in general in the software I run (and have the ability to fix it), and dislike the general attitude with amiga development, excluding AROS, where the others do their best to not share any code. There have been plenty of things in the Amiga world that if they had been open source, the situation would now be better. From Filesystems to tcp/ip stacks, to browsers.