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AuthorTopic: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems  (Read 10661 times)

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Offline Franko

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2011, 09:35:35 PM »
These old 100% Amiga CD's are a treasure trove of interesting old news snippets... :)
 

Offline Digiman

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2011, 10:22:40 PM »
We have AROS now so who cares?
 

Offline trekiej

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2011, 10:39:10 PM »
Could anyone provide a block diagram of what they think an Amithlon system might look like?
I still have some interest in it. Even if it is for nastalga.
Amiga 2000 Forever :)
Welcome to the Planar System.
 

Offline Nearly-Right

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2011, 12:05:48 AM »
Quote from: Franko;643409
Anywhere on the net where folk can find more info about it and see just how far it was developed before it disappeared.. :)

Take a look at: http://www.garycvl.f2s.com/amithlon.html

and: http://amithlon.sourceforge.net/

and: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/amithlonopen/

The main Amithlon Kernel is still being developed by milanca

and the main Kernel files are here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/amithlon/files/

and there's even info about Amithlon on the web archive: http://web.archive.org/web/20011117042413/www.amithlon.net/

Pages load a lot slower, but the information is better having access to than not being availlable
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 01:42:45 AM by Nearly-Right »
 

Offline Franko

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2011, 12:10:03 AM »
Quote from: Nearly-Right;643635
Take a look at: http://www.garycvl.f2s.com/amithlon.html


Thank's for that... :)

Just had a quick look and I'll read it all later. Been quite interesting finding out about Amithlon (especially some of the stuff on the old 100% Amiga Cds)... :)

From what I've learned about it so far it was a very promising system that met an untimely end... :(
 

Offline trekiej

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2011, 01:00:25 AM »
Is there enough parts to rebuild it?
Amiga 2000 Forever :)
Welcome to the Planar System.
 

Offline EDanaII

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2011, 01:03:02 AM »
@ Heiroglyph:
Quote
Long story short, that's why I'm looking at reviving Amithlon without the IP problems but I was curious as to what people liked/disliked about the original.


You have that skill set? If so, then I'm impressed.

I'm no expert here, so I may be talking out my S, but... if you can do this, consider two options: first, use what AROS has already got and just build a workbench that can behave like Amithlon. I doubt it's as simple as that, considering the issues that Emumiga is having.

Probably the better option, however, is to parallel Bernie's work. This creates something closer to Anubis, which I personally favor, because of the driver and memory protection issues.

But, like I said, I'm probably talking out my S. :)


Quote
It's a shame, he's an awesome developer and has great ideas. Plus he's just too nice to have that happen to him. Where is karma when you need it?


I remember Bernie from his Comp.Sys.Amiga daze. He had quite an attitude back then and I, Aram Iskenderian and Luca Diana, among others, got into many a heated argument with him. I think he was, as with many, pretty disappointed over the that state of things back then. I'm certainly glad he decided to use his powers for good and not evil with Amithlon and, yea, it's a shame everything ended up the way it did.
Ed.
 

Offline Heiroglyph

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2011, 01:30:42 AM »
I can do it, I write more complicated things for a living, I'm just seeing if it's really worth the time investment.

The main missing bits are the glue between the emulation and AmigaOS that give you native x86 code and direct hardware access.  Luckily those are pretty straightforward after seeing the headers you compile against and the patches to UAE and the Kernel.

The things I'm still weighing out are how much to emulate vs. pass through to the Amiga side (all PCI? SCSI? USB?) and which OS to use as a base.

Bernie was already rethinking how devices were handled for v2 and seemed to be going more emulated to increase compatibility. (No special Amiga side drivers to write)

Linux is a proven host but isn't interesting IMHO.  The big benefit there is that Bernie already patched the kernel so that you could get a lot of the memory mapped to the correct locations for a speed increase, but is that even needed with multi-core computers with memory faster than the CPU's Amithlon was designed to run on?

There are just a lot of variables to take into account before I decide to commit to it so I thought I'd gauge interest.
 

Offline B00tDisk

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Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2011, 02:12:22 AM »
Quote from: Heiroglyph;643656
I can do it, I write more complicated things for a living, I'm just seeing if it's really worth the time investment.

The main missing bits are the glue between the emulation and AmigaOS that give you native x86 code and direct hardware access.  Luckily those are pretty straightforward after seeing the headers you compile against and the patches to UAE and the Kernel.

The things I'm still weighing out are how much to emulate vs. pass through to the Amiga side (all PCI? SCSI? USB?) and which OS to use as a base.

Bernie was already rethinking how devices were handled for v2 and seemed to be going more emulated to increase compatibility. (No special Amiga side drivers to write)

Linux is a proven host but isn't interesting IMHO.  The big benefit there is that Bernie already patched the kernel so that you could get a lot of the memory mapped to the correct locations for a speed increase, but is that even needed with multi-core computers with memory faster than the CPU's Amithlon was designed to run on?

There are just a lot of variables to take into account before I decide to commit to it so I thought I'd gauge interest.


Bernie has mentioned that you can compile and run x86 apps on the Amiga emulated by Amithlon - I'd always hoped that meant (back when Amithlon was active, mind you) that someone would tackle some of the "must have" applications and we'd get the best of all worlds: an Amiga OS and killer, modern apps.  

If somehow someone managed to revive Amithlon and make that again possible...wow, that would be neat.
Back away from the EU-SSR!
 

Offline XDelusion

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2011, 02:27:56 AM »
Quote from: Digiman;643609
We have AROS now so who cares?


Because Aros has shown no signs that it is going to move past alpha stage any time soon. Amit lon like MorphOS brought smiles to my face where as Aros has brought sadness. give it another 10 years and we'll see.
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline Heiroglyph

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2011, 02:46:17 AM »
@B00tDisk:
If I remember correctly, there were native versions of ImageFX, Aladdin 4D and a few other Amiga apps, but not a lot of new ports.

@XDelusion:
I agree that Aros has been going pretty slow, but you have to give the guys a LOT of credit for starting from nothing.

Toni and Jason get a lot of credit recently for giving the Amiga version a huge boost, but they all deserve a lot of recognition.
 

Offline HammerD

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2011, 02:56:19 AM »
Speaking of Amithlon, I just finished updating my pages on Amithlon over at http://www.hd-zone.com/amithlon/

It includes the latest information on Kernel 4 and the new drivers and hardware support.
AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!
 

Offline amigadave

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Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2011, 03:07:03 AM »
If you have the talent to seriously revive Amithlon, then why not use that talent to improve AROS instead?  I am sure the AROS community is always looking for more talented programmers to help them out.
How are you helping the Amiga community? :)
 

Offline haywirepc

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2011, 03:13:29 AM »
Also remember that os3.x is closed sourced. Amithlon loads the os 3.x system files on top of its emulation/translation to x86 layer.
 
This means you won't likely get far with ox3.x closed to your development and improvement efforts.
 
In short, without os3.x sources, its a dead end.
 
Steven
 

Offline Heiroglyph

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2011, 03:13:43 AM »
I'm on the AROS mailing list and have source code access, but this is my fun project for after work and for some reason working on AROS just isn't interesting to me.

I've even made donations because I believe in it, but it just doesn't pique my interest.