Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Amiga Kit Amiga Store Iridium Banner AMIStore App Store A1200/A600 4xIDE Interface

AuthorTopic: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems  (Read 10662 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Heiroglyph

Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« on: June 08, 2011, 03:56:29 AM »
I skipped over Amithons heyday and got into it later, but I'm very interested in it.

Would you still use something similar?

What would a modern version need to change?
 

Offline trekiej

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2011, 04:02:40 AM »
I do not think it is as necessary as it was before.
I do not know if I would use it or not.
I am writing this from Icaros Desktop 1.3.
I would be currios to see how it performed, etc.
Amiga 2000 Forever :)
Welcome to the Planar System.
 

Offline commodorejohn

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2011, 04:21:29 AM »
Enlighten me, as I wasn't part of the community for its heyday and can't find a lot of description on just what the heck it is. As near as I can make out, it's an x86-based Amiga emulator that runs on bare metal, rather than inside an OS?

Assuming this is correct: I don't really see why I'd want this. The numbers I've found seem impressive (450MHz 040 on a 1GHz x86? Nice.) But removing it from the context of a host operating system seems to lose the main advantage of an emulator (easily installed and operated side-by-side with a modern operating system) without approaching the coolness factor of custom hardware.

(Also, it sounds like it doesn't support the chipset? That's...pretty weak, really. But that may be old information - like I said, Google isn't telling me a lot.)
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline Franko

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2011, 04:41:24 AM »
@ CommodoreJohn

There was some stuff about it in the old magazines before they all disappeared at the start of the century, it was basically just another emulator to run on x86 hardware but if I recall correctly at the time the prices you'd have to pay to get all the kit together and up and running put it into the world of La, La Land... :)

Don't even think it could handle the custom chipset emulation very well so almost all games & demos were a no go on it. Always seemed to me from what I read about it, a pretty pointless exercise to tell the truth... :)
 

Offline Heiroglyph

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2011, 04:49:46 AM »
Basically it has a minimal Linux underneath that exposed the PCI bus and many devices to the AmigaOS as real hardware.

You had as direct as possible access to the hardware so it acted much like a Draco in that you could only run OS legal applications with Picasso96, no hardware banging, although at least the CIA's were there.

I'm not sure that the chipset emulation would slow it down by much on todays PC's, but that was some of the justification.

You could also mix and match x86 libraries and executables.  For example you could use an x86 native datatype and 68k apps would benefit from them.

Part of the idea was to slowly move more and more of the OS to x86 without having to do it all at once.  It also made more hardware available, giving a huge speed boost, more RAM, RTG, AHI and network card at very little cost.

At the time it seemed to be a great option, but the licensing wasn't done properly so it was killed in court.
 

Offline Franko

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2011, 05:03:11 AM »
Quote from: Heiroglyph;643396
I skipped over Amithons heyday and got into it later, but I'm very interested in it.

Would you still use something similar?

What would a modern version need to change?


In answer to your questions, I can only say this...

Would you still use something similar... No, simply because I don't see these "alternative" OS's on x86 hardware or whatever being anything to do with the real Amiga experience... :)

To me if I really wanted to run modern day software then I could just buy such software for my iMacs or buy a PC, either way it would be a lot cheaper than paying for a custom made Amiga like OS and hardware that will most likely not match the equivalent of a modern day PC... :)

As to "What would a modern version need to change?"... again I just don't see why folk would want an Amiga on x86 hardware with all the problems & flaws it would involve and never achieving anywhere close to being like using a real Amiga... :)

The NatAmi with it's extra ports & gfx modes to me is the only real hope we have of ever achieving an Amiga that new stuff can be written for, to bring it that bit closer to "modern day computing" while being the most backward compatible system possible at the same time... :)
 

Offline XDelusion

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2011, 05:12:02 AM »
The last time I ran Amithlon, it ran circles around any emulator on the same hardware. I loved it!
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline Franko

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2011, 05:13:30 AM »
Quote from: XDelusion;643404
The last time I ran Amithlon, it ran circles around any emulator on the same hardware. I loved it!


But what did it emulate if it couldn't handle the custom chipsets properly... :confused:
 

Offline XDelusion

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2011, 05:17:51 AM »
A shit load! Pretty much anything AHI and RTG friendly. Quake for instance absolutely flew on my old Amithlon machine. And considering that there are unofficial updates for it, I have considered building another machine just for it until AROS gets its ass out of the Alpha stage.
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline Franko

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2011, 05:24:27 AM »
Quote from: XDelusion;643407
A shit load! Pretty much anything AHI and RTG friendly. Quake for instance absolutely flew on my old Amithlon machine. And considering that there are unofficial updates for it, I have considered building another machine just for it until AROS gets its ass out of the Alpha stage.


That's hardly a sh!t load... :)

Thing is like CommodoreJohn said there isn't much info to be found on the net about it, last stuff I ever read about it was around 2003 on the monthly CD Magazine "100% Amiga", But it's was mostly stuff about it being in trouble and heading for the realms of the land that time forgot... :(

Anywhere on the net where folk can find more info about it and see just how far it was developed before it disappeared.. :)
 

Offline Heiroglyph

Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2011, 06:05:20 AM »
@XDelusion:
For system friendly/RTG type software it seems better than my tricked out 4000T.

Considering you can run UAE on it at full speed, the lack of chipset emulation doesn't really bother me.

There are updates that support some newer motherboards and video cards, but it's still very hit and miss.  Very hard to get set up with the updates too.
 

Offline XDelusion

Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline J-Golden

  • TOP SECRET USER!!!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2002
  • Posts: 1321
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 1
  • Gender: Male
    • http://about.me/J.Golden
Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2011, 11:05:33 AM »
Quote from: XDelusion;643421
Sad sad story.

Yes it is.
 
I think what several people are missing is that Programs that ate resources like they were candy on a Classic Amiga FLEW on an Amithalon.
 
I saw a render at a Amiga Show in Baltimore that tooks seconds, maybe a minute, on an Amithalon compaired to several hours on a Tricked out A4000.
 
So, it wasn't a good replacemt for games or Chipset banging software, but for production packages that worked off of the OS, it was a God send.
 
Yes, think Draco for a good comparison in compatability: http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=43
« Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 11:10:36 AM by J-Golden »
AMIGA: (NOUN) THE FIRST COMPUTER THAT BRIDGED THE GAP BETWEEN HUMANITY AND TECHNOLOGY.
 
Be Positive towards the Amiga community!
 
I'm a dyslectic, phonetic spelling English Major. It's funny 'cause it's TRUE!:roflmao:
 
WWBD?
 

Offline cecilia

  • Amiga Snob
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 4875
  • Country: 00
  • Total likes: 1
    • http://cecilia.sawneybean.com/
Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2011, 01:02:55 PM »
Quote from: XDelusion;643404
The last time I ran Amithlon, it ran circles around any emulator on the same hardware. I loved it!

It was beautiful to behold!

I was lucky enough to use one for a demonstration of IFX at an east coast Amiga Convention. I was amazed at how FAST it was! I may not be into speed the way the boys are, but a faster system does make work that much easier.
I know !

Once I had my hands on one this is what opened my eyes to the possibility of getting some kind of portable Amiga. And after Amithlon had it's political problems (arg), I decided to try WinUAE on a regular windows laptop. I did this by buying a Dell, and eventually making it multiboot with Red Hat. So, I had three OS's on it.

worked very well for years.

Amiga OS faster is really really good
the no CARB diet- no Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld or Bush.
IFX CD Tutorial
 

Offline J-Golden

  • TOP SECRET USER!!!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2002
  • Posts: 1321
  • Country: us
  • Total likes: 1
  • Gender: Male
    • http://about.me/J.Golden
Re: Pros and Cons of Amithlon type systems
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2011, 01:44:25 PM »
Quote from: cecilia;643456
It was beautiful to behold!
 
I was lucky enough to use one for a demonstration of IFX at an east coast Amiga Convention. I was amazed at how FAST it was! I may not be into speed the way the boys are, but a faster system does make work that much easier.
I know !

HA HA!!!  I bet you were the one demonstrating the show I was talking about!  That's too funny!
 
I even remember the video clip you worked on for the class.  It was woman blowing out a match and you did some kinda cool background effect and it rendered superfast!
AMIGA: (NOUN) THE FIRST COMPUTER THAT BRIDGED THE GAP BETWEEN HUMANITY AND TECHNOLOGY.
 
Be Positive towards the Amiga community!
 
I'm a dyslectic, phonetic spelling English Major. It's funny 'cause it's TRUE!:roflmao:
 
WWBD?