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AuthorTopic: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!  (Read 9166 times)

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Offline Piru

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Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2010, 09:38:03 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;588947
Could use a different splash screen, though; I never did care much for the KS2-3 one anyway.
Well, don't worry that isn't AROS spash screen, but KS 3.0.

As you might remember this current FrankenROM is actually KS 3.0 with some modules replaced with AROS ones ("This is just the AROS Exec, with everything else from AmigaOS KickStart 3.0."). "strap" module (which produces the "please insert disk in the drive" animation) is obviously still KS 3.0 one. Once strap will be replaced the KS 3.0 spash animation will be gone.

This is the very first step on a long road. It gets far more interesting once you start replacing more KS ROM parts. It gets a bit messy once you run into the gazillion compatibility issues in AROS replacement modules. However, now that you can easily switch between the original modules and the AROS ones it will be trivial to use bisect method to track bugs.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 09:44:38 AM by Piru »
 

Offline vidarh

Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2010, 09:44:12 AM »
Quote from: fishy_fiz;588945
Also having AROS run on a real 68k Amiga will help greatly in improving api compatibility for other architectures as well as helping with bug fixing. There's also things like minimig, natami, and variations on UAE that benefit.


This is so important it's worth repeating.

Being able to run real Amiga programs as test cases, even when we don't have the source, will give us pretty much all of Aminet and a bunch of old commercial apps as a resource to draw on to track down bugs.
 

Offline Piru

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Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2010, 09:49:04 AM »
The topic is a bit misleading. The kickstart boot screen is produced by Commodore graphics.library, utility.library, timer.device, ciaa and ciab resources, trackdisk.device, carddisk.device, card.resource and various other components which really are not AROS yet.

I think it's time to get excited once AROS does all of that.
 

Offline vidarh

Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2010, 09:55:11 AM »
Quote from: kolla;588943

 I do not see why you think this - CBM developers were magicians? You think gcc cannot compile efficient m68k binaries?


To be fair, there *are* parts of AROS that are definitively not optimized for speed and low memory usage, so we will need to work on that once it's up and running.

As an example, the console.device in real AmigaOS has optimizations that only scrolls a single bit plane if the visible text uses only pen 1. AROS doesn't do any bitplane masking yet because it doesn't make any sense on the chunky modes used on PC hardware.

Though many optimizations like that are easy to make once AROS runs on Amiga hardware (in this case, just needs to do a SetWrMask() when we know its safe).
 

Offline warpdesign

Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2010, 10:20:20 AM »
Quote from: Piru;588974
The topic is a bit misleading. The kickstart boot screen is produced by Commodore graphics.library, utility.library, timer.device, ciaa and ciab resources, trackdisk.device, carddisk.device, card.resource and various other components which really are not AROS yet.

I think it's time to get excited once AROS does all of that.


Thanks for the explanation, it's nice to learn about the boot process.

The road is still long to have a true AROS replacement kickstart indeed. But progress is progress... Any idea how long it took MorphOS to get from such level to the level where it completely overtook Commodore's OS ?
 

Offline Karlos

Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2010, 10:35:18 AM »
Quote
You think gcc cannot compile efficient m68k binaries?

I don't think it can't, I know it can't. At least it never uses scaled indexed addressing where it would be faster than using a scratch register to calculate the offset and adding it to the base pointer. This was certainly the case in 2.95 and as far as I can tell all versions of 3. Might be fixed in 4, but I wouldn't bet on it.

It also has a propensity (in C++ mode) to add expensive exception context state save operations where they'd never actually be caught in unwinding, nor does it bother to check properly whether or not it actually needs to save off the entire FPU register set when doing so. Older versions emitted multiple copies of virtual function tables for the same abstract classes which were never link optimised away. I could go on...

Luckily, nothing I haven't found workarounds for ;)
int p; // A
 

Offline rebraist

Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2010, 10:37:37 AM »
i've donated (only) 10$ in this moment! thank you men!
I\'m not an heretic: an heretic is a morphos user! I\'m a perverted: i\'m an aros user!
edit:...i\'m now an heretic perverted... i\'m a morpharosian...
Evil has no limits... I\'ve even os4.1 too...
Is there in my house any space to sleep still?
 

Offline Piru

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Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2010, 10:43:20 AM »
Quote from: warpdesign;588982
Any idea how long it took MorphOS to get from such level to the level where it completely overtook Commodore's OS ?

Well personally I think we overtook Commodore's AmigaOS quite early on, even though we still depended on some rarely used KS ROM parts for quite some time.

I was there doing the actual work but I've long forgotten when it was the point we could drop the KS ROM altogether. It probably was around MorphOS 0.8 or 0.9 (late 2001, early 2002) or so. So it took several years.

However, AROS case is slightly different: they already have most of the modules and they just need to bugfix and adjust them. It could be just couple of months if everthing plays out well. However, if there are major gaps to fill it can take well over a year in my estimation. Also, it depends much on how buggy version you'll consider acceptable. If you don't mind things being glitchy and some modules missing altogether then it should be possible in couple of months.
 

Offline jj

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Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2010, 11:18:42 AM »
This is good news on a long needed replacement that everyone else has already mentioned.   keep up the good work.
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Offline Hattig

Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2010, 11:44:14 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;588940
I still don't understand why you guys want this. AROS was originally designed to be an open sorced re-implementation of WB3.1.
AROS still hasn't been polished enough to br released as a 1.0 package.
If ported to a 68K its likely to be slower and buggier than what you currently use.

Are copyright concerns that significant that it makes sense to expend so much energy just to realize what you already have?


Wow, what a negative first reply, the person doing the work must feel so great after reading this.

Anyway, why do we want a 68k independent Amiga OS? Minimig. FPGAArcade. Natami. New ROMs without a dozen setpatches. Boot from other devices if you have the hardware. Proper optimised ROMs for 68060 or Natami's 68050.
 

Offline Karlos

Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2010, 12:09:51 PM »
Well, I for one am happy to hear that there'll be a KS replacement for m68k AROS.
int p; // A
 

Offline clusteruk

Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2010, 01:27:11 PM »
I am just happy with the constant progress :-)
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Offline hardlink

Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2010, 02:14:22 PM »
Quote from: Heiroglyph;588939


http://www.evillabs.net/wiki/index.php/AROS_m68k-amiga

If you haven't donated to the bounty yet, give this guy a boost!
http://www.power2people.org/projects/profile/5


I just donated eleven bucks, but he may need it for hosting fees, looks like evillabs.net is AmigaorgDotted right now.
 

Offline billt

Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2010, 03:05:34 PM »
Quote from: Heiroglyph;588939
It's FrankenROM (part Aros, part OS3.0) but it's a huge step forward!

Cool. Though I question the need to have the disk animation and Amiga checkmark exactly as they were, as it seems those images could suffer from copyright issues. Are there plans to have some new imagery to replace them once things progress and there is less and less and then none of Amiga Inc's code in there?
Bill T
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Offline Heiroglyph

Re: First Aros 68k Kickstart boot screen!
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2010, 03:10:59 PM »
Quote from: billt;589021

Cool. Though I question the need to have the disk animation and Amiga checkmark exactly as they were, as it seems those images could suffer from copyright issues. Are there plans to have some new imagery to replace them once things progress and there is less and less and then none of Amiga Inc's code in there?


FrankenROM is the term Jason coined to explain that it's part Aros code and part KS3.0.

I'm sure those are parts of the original kickstart.

All original parts will be replaced as individual replacements are stable enough.

It's just easier to test when you can test one section at a time for compatibility rather than trying to do it all at once, not knowing which part broke the whole.