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AuthorTopic: Amiga PCs on the way....  (Read 26028 times)

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Offline takemehomegrandma

Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #60 on: September 01, 2010, 08:31:10 PM »
@ Piru

OK, this is *my* take on this:

AFAIK, CommodoreUSA *hasn't bought* any IP, they have *licensed* the rights to use of it!

Amiga Inc is of course completely free to license to any third party any and all of it's IP, with few exceptions; which are the OS3.x source/object code/yadayada (that CommodoreUSA doesn't need or want anyway), the words "AmigaOS", "Amiga OS", "AmigaOne" and "Amiga One". Those things are exclusively licensed to Hyperion (who doesn't own them either, despite what many people seems to think. They simply have an exclusive and very extensive license to *use* them for the duration of the agreement). Hyperion has also a license for the Boing Ball, but that one is *not* exclusive, so Amiga Inc is perfectly free to allow anyone else to use that.

And what did they license?

Apparently, Amiga Inc has licensed the trade mark word "Amiga" to CommodoreUSA for use in their "AIO" computers, which is *perfectly fine* according to the "settlement" Hyperion made with Amiga Inc, as long as they will not use the marks exclusively licensed to Hyperion. Which they of course won't do. The name "Amiga" is the only thing CommodoreUSA has licensed AFAIK. Well that, and most certainly some symbols like the graphical representation of the word "Amiga", boing ball, and check mark seen on CommodoreUSA's web site.

Amiga Inc has *not* licensed AROS to CommodoreUSA. They can't do that, since they obviously don't own it or control it in any way.

If CommodoreUSA or anyone else wants to use AROS to whatever purpose for whatever reason, they are perfectly free to do so. It's completely free, and open source. I'm looking forward to the day I can use AROS on my Genesi Efika MX Smartbook myself. Neither Amiga Inc, nor Hyperion, owns or controls AROS. It's independent, and evidently it was here long before both Amiga Inc and Hyperion arrived to make a mess out of Amiga.

I'd say Ben Herman's ramblings of "legal actions" are totally bogus. From what is publicly known, I completely fail to see how Hyperion could possibly manage to sue neither Amiga Inc nor CommodoreUSA for this trade mark license agreement.

I'd say that comment was merely a mindless knee-jerk reaction from the notorious "Legal Clerc"!

Cheers! :)



:)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline Iggy

Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #61 on: September 01, 2010, 08:43:54 PM »
Get ready to be inundated with AROS users running low cost PCs thanks to the name of the website.

The Amiga name was the only thing Bill really had he could sell, so I probably shouldn't be surprised.

Even his claim to that may not be that legitimate, but what it matter? He's just going to eliminate the last shred of respect left to the community and sh*t on it.
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Offline jj

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Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #62 on: September 01, 2010, 08:45:43 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;577158
Get ready to be inundated with AROS users running low cost PCs thanks to the name of the website.

The Amiga name was the only thing Bill really had he could sell, so I probably shouldn't be surprised.

Even his claim to that may not be that legitimate, but what it matter? He's just going to eliminate the last shred of respect left to the community and sh*t on it.


And what would be wrong with that.  That would be a good thing.

Bring on more AROS/MorphOS/AOS4 users.

They are all welcome here
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Offline dammy

Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #63 on: September 01, 2010, 08:46:27 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;577157
I'd say that comment was merely a mindless knee-jerk reaction from the notorious "Legal Clerc"!


You really know how to defame legal clerks around the world, don't ya.
Dammy

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Offline takemehomegrandma

Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #64 on: September 01, 2010, 08:49:12 PM »
Quote from: CSixx;577155
You are probably just trying to nitpick me, but...
Hyperion suing anyone regarding this agreement affects CommodoreUSA does it not?
I couldn't care less who the actual defendants are, as long as the result is the same.

result = preventing further pollution of the Amiga name


The insinuation that Hyperion would own the Amiga name, or have anything whatsoever to say about it, is simply hilarious. Where on earth does this misconception come from?

Had Amiga Inc tried to license out any of the four words "AmigaOS", "Amiga OS", "AmigaOne", "Amiga One", then I would understand your stance, since Hyperion could easily point to their own contract they have with Amiga Inc that stipulates that those particular words (but nothing else) are to be considered for *exclusive use* by Hyperion, for the duration of the agreement.

But as it is now? Nope! Except for those four exceptions I quoted above, Amiga Inc is completely free to use *their own* trade marks the way they see fit! :)

Look at the Hyperion/Amiga Inc agreement; I think "Definition G" and "Grant 1c" would be the most relevant parts in this case...
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline Franko

Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #65 on: September 01, 2010, 08:50:13 PM »
Wow what a load of fuss over nothing... :eek:

C'mon folks how many times over the years have we heard all these legal arguments and debates, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee... :rolleyes:

Short of some deranged super die hard Amiga fanatic coming along and willing to spend all his cash on buying up the rights to the Commodore & Amiga legacy and funding new R&D and actually producing a new Amiga, there's not a hope in hell of us every seeing a new Amiga in the true sense of the word. :(

You stand a far better chance of me actually saying something sensible than that ever happening... :biglaugh:
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #66 on: September 01, 2010, 08:53:31 PM »
Quote from: dammy;577161
You really know how to defame legal clerks around the world, don't ya.


"I am not defaming anybody's character, I have not even identified a specific person." (Benjamin Hermans)
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline jorkany

Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #67 on: September 01, 2010, 09:06:03 PM »
Quote from: CSixx;577155
You are probably just trying to nitpick me, but...
Hyperion suing anyone regarding this agreement affects CommodoreUSA does it not?
Well on the one hand CommodoreUSA is using a name granted to them by AInc. Suing CommodoreUSA and winning would prevent that entity from using the name. Suing AInc. and winning would prevent AInc. from allowing any future entities to use the name.

But since CommodoreUSA isn't using the name "AmigaOS", "Amiga OS", or "AmigaOne", I'm not clear on what Hyperion would be suing them about. Hyperion isn't Amiga, after all.
 

Offline kolla

Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #68 on: September 01, 2010, 09:10:27 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;577157
Well that, and most certainly some symbols like the graphical representation of the word "Amiga", boing ball, and check mark seen on CommodoreUSA's web site.

AFAIK the checkmark is an abandoned trademark that today is public domain. If not, someone better sue me for my fantastic indigo T-shirts with nice rainbow checkmark on them :)
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Offline rebraist

Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #69 on: September 01, 2010, 09:46:57 PM »
I really don't understand our community.
It seems to me this commodoreusa stuff is a great thing for us and for amiga.
I don't know you all but I want to see new amiga software in the shops.
I want to see amiga related newspapers.
What is amiga to me? It's an alchemy.
It's an alchemy between:
- great hardware
- great software
- affordable price
This alchemy, like or not, is only doable going x86: the best hardware at the best price. The best sware is a thing you have to write on.
Doesn't Hyperion like it?
Well, take aos4 and compile it for x86.
Piracy? A joke.
How many registered users are there in ppc market? Very little.
They could sell more more more on x86.
Even if piracy plague should strike aos4, sellings would be surely better.
And hyperion could make real money. Not "hobby" money.
The real problem for hyperion is another: the concurrency by mainstream os's.
aos4 (and morphos) goes well on little ppc market because it's made by hobbysts to hobbysts.
When you'd change platform and have to look at ms and apple, well the things for these os go very very bad.
And surely hyperion should spend time and money to port aos4 to x86.
But has amiga to be blocked with this legacy?
Amiga is dead with jay miner.
What is alive is the idea of what tripos, lorraine and c-brand could have been.
Great hardware
Great os.
Affordable price.
 
I don't know if commodoreusa will make it but i hope so.
About a-eon: their a1-x1000, in proportion, is much more affordable and has surely a much more right price than sam mbs.
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Offline dammy

Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #70 on: September 01, 2010, 10:01:44 PM »
@ rebraist

Quote
About a-eon: their a1-x1000, in proportion, is much more affordable and has surely a much more right price than sam mbs.

How do you figure that?  Beta Board (mobo/cpu/ram) is 1,150 GBP.  If you add in case, gfx card, hd, dvd, and whatever else a end user wants plus UK's new 20% VAT, your probably looking at least 1,700 GBP.    How does that make it, with running on only one core, better price then a SAM?
Dammy

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guest7146

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Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #71 on: September 01, 2010, 10:07:48 PM »
Quote from: rebraist;577171
I really don't understand our community.
It seems to me this commodoreusa stuff is a great thing for us and for amiga.
I don't know you all but I want to see new amiga software in the shops.
I want to see amiga related newspapers.

I don't think this rebranded PC is going to grant you your wishes, and it's certainly not going to grant me mine.  I'm all for new products for the Amiga community, and I'm even okay with the whole AmigaOS/AROS/MorphOS thing these days, but the idea of taking a crappy looking PC, sticking an Amiga sticker on it and selling it under the Amiga name... that's just an embarrassment.

Sure, OS4 isn't exactly at the cutting edge yet, but given the circumstances I think it's come a long way and despite its short-comings the Amiga community can at least be proud of it.  Same goes for the MorphOS crowd.
But I can't possibly bring myself to be proud of a crappy rebranded PC, that's just total rubbish.

Also, that "Amino" thing they have on their website... total load of crap.  It looks horrible, and there's no market for a desktop based PC like that these days anyway.  It wouldn't be so bad if it had some kind of cutting edge appeal to it but that's simply not the case.

Sorry, but as much as I hate to be negative, I just don't see this as a good thing for the Amiga community.  It's my own personal opinion of course, so I can't speak for the Amiga community at large, but from my point of view I think it's a load of rubbish and I hope it never sees the light of day.

AH.
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #72 on: September 01, 2010, 10:23:48 PM »
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #73 on: September 01, 2010, 10:32:28 PM »
call me retarded but from a perspective of the 68k user all this quarrel amounts to nothing. neither hyperions dead end os4 nor funny advances to suck out what money are left within community with a rebranded pc hw are securing any future perspective. i see only the unleashed animosity here (on forums), no vision, and without such its all doomed to fail anyway. my sympathy is for aros if only why im using a cut down derivate of it on a classic. i welcome mos as alternative but never has got deep enough to get into it. and i bought and have used os4 on my a4k okay but i lost attention to it quite some time ago. nevertheless it is embrassing to see many mos and aros users taking sides with an unquestionable hoax just for the sake to see os4 and its follower in ashes.

HOLD ON FOR A MOMENT!!!!!!! nothing has happened as yet. announecments have been done, mostly substanceless. both from os4 camp (aox1k) and also from these "commodores" usa (whatever). none can tell if and when they materialize. think like sane people if only for a minute. nothing depends on you, so why are you discussing myths???? there is no actual impact by these news on your situation for now, it can only bias your expectation, and it is whats is aimed for. so be cautious..
 

Offline Kronos

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Re: Amiga PCs on the way....
« Reply #74 on: September 01, 2010, 10:33:19 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;577157

I'd say Ben Herman's ramblings of "legal actions" are totally bogus. From what is publicly known, I completely fail to see how Hyperion could possibly manage to sue neither Amiga Inc nor CommodoreUSA for this trade mark license agreement.


I'd say, if this really goes to court (which I doubt) both sides will be so cashstrapped that the 1st blow will be fatal. So whoever manages to get an injunction blocking the other sides products or finds a way to make the other sides legal fees skyrocket will "win".

@Piru
*coke-spill*
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else