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AuthorTopic: Quake 3 on OS4 Classic  (Read 4815 times)

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Offline gertsy

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Re: Quake 3 on OS4 Classic
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2014, 09:27:01 PM »
I'm surprised that people are surprised that 15yo laggard hardware runs 14 yo games badly. It ain't magic.
But perhaps that's negative and they're just surprised the games run at all. Quake II was better gameplay IMO anyway. Any more than half a dozen people a side makes it madness.
 

Offline eliyahu

Re: Quake 3 on OS4 Classic
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2014, 09:43:26 PM »
Quote from: skolman;759814
It is a pity that there is no version of WarpOS, because under the OS4.1 already Wipeout 2097 running slower.
have you tried grabbing powerpc.library? it should support the 603e and 604e IIRC. that's how i've run WOS tools and games on my SAM and pegasos machines.

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Offline Iggy

Re: Quake 3 on OS4 Classic
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2014, 12:20:33 AM »
There is a point where this gets silly.
Play Quake 2 on your legacy hardware, Quake 3 needs NG hardware.
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Offline skolman

Re: Quake 3 on OS4 Classic
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2014, 01:12:46 AM »
Quote from: eliyahu;759861
have you tried grabbing powerpc.library? it should support the 603e and 604e IIRC. that's how i've run WOS tools and games on my SAM and pegasos machines.

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Offline jj

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Re: Quake 3 on OS4 Classic
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2014, 12:28:28 PM »
but morpos runs warpos and warp3d games natively
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Offline delshay

Re: Quake 3 on OS4 Classic
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2014, 06:47:50 PM »
Quote from: Crumb;728810
Perhaps it's time to hack 53c710 scsi driver to work on BlizzardPPC? Radoslaw Kujawa already added support for both scsi and g-rex and perhaps he could give you some hints, you can even check out BSD sources  :-)

https://github.com/jsonn/src/tree/trunk/sys/arch/amiga

I was forced to upgrade to 53c710-1 "faster version" as SCSI needs to cope with faster bus. There's no doubt this game can be played on classic amiga,but I think its going to need the minimum 41.5Mhz PCI bus.

This game works fine on a PC with Permedia 2 and AGP slot,so a fast PCI slot should allow this game to work on classic.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 06:50:25 PM by delshay »
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Offline matthey

Re: Quake 3 on OS4 Classic
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2014, 09:20:15 PM »
Quote from: delshay;759900
I was forced to upgrade to 53c710-1 "faster version" as SCSI needs to cope with faster bus. There's no doubt this game can be played on classic amiga,but I think its going to need the minimum 41.5Mhz PCI bus.

This game works fine on a PC with Permedia 2 and AGP slot,so a fast PCI slot should allow this game to work on classic.


It's not all about PCI speed. If the gfx card has enough memory to hold all the textures for a level then the game is not going to use the PCI bus nearly as much. A Voodoo 3 (16MB) or Voodoo4/5 (32MB) even with a slow PCI bus Mediator may outperform the Permedia 2 if it has to recopy textures across the PCI bus very often.
 

Offline delshay

Re: Quake 3 on OS4 Classic
« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2014, 02:41:38 AM »
Quote from: matthey;759906
It's not all about PCI speed. If the gfx card has enough memory to hold all the textures for a level then the game is not going to use the PCI bus nearly as much. A Voodoo 3 (16MB) or Voodoo4/5 (32MB) even with a slow PCI bus Mediator may outperform the Permedia 2 if it has to recopy textures across the PCI bus very often.

Not so sure of this.

What was talked about was "DMA driver" for Permedia 2 on classic amiga. Bvision has already shown it can operate at AGP speed but I think its missing a few AGP features.

Upload texture across 66Mhz+ PCI bus with DMA may show same performance as on PC.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 02:49:30 AM by delshay »
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Offline matthey

Re: Quake 3 on OS4 Classic
« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2014, 03:55:43 AM »
Quote from: delshay;759921
Upload texture across 66Mhz+ PCI bus with DMA may show same performance as on PC.

But which is faster, uploading a bunch of textures once at the beginning of the game or level at 10MB/s or constantly during the game at 120MB/s? Warp3D has auto texture management so it will constantly swap textures in and out of gfx memory as needed. A full bandwidth PCI bus may be usable when this is happening but with enough gfx memory it doesn't happen. Performance isn't always about bandwidth. How it's managed can be just as important.
 

Offline delshay

Re: Quake 3 on OS4 Classic
« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2014, 07:00:29 AM »
There is a video on youtube showing this game with permedia 2,whatever the limitation permedia 2 has it does not seem to affect performance.

Do a search Permedia 2 Quake 3 on youtube (on a PC).

From my point of view Bvision should be able to do this given it has a fast enough bus.
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Offline vox

Re: Quake 3 on OS4 Classic
« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2014, 07:07:40 AM »
Quote from: delshay;759926
There is a video on youtube showing this game with permedia 2,whatever the limitation permedia 2 has it does not seem to affect performance.

Do a search Permedia 2 Quake 3 on youtube (on a PC).

From my point of view Bvision should be able to do this given it has a fast enough bus.

Parmedia wasnt really a popular chip on PC gfx cards
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Offline skolman

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Offline Karlos

Re: Quake 3 on OS4 Classic
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2014, 11:10:32 PM »
Quote from: delshay;759926
There is a video on youtube showing this game with permedia 2,whatever the limitation permedia 2 has it does not seem to affect performance.

Do a search Permedia 2 Quake 3 on youtube (on a PC).

From my point of view Bvision should be able to do this given it has a fast enough bus.

Peaches and creosote, I'm afraid. Most of the videos for old video cards are shown on Pentium-II/III class systems with AGP cards and vendor supplied OpenGL drivers. 3DLabs AGP Permedia cards were made for CAD and their 2D and 3D drivers were quite optimised.

So, an old 500 MHz P3 with AGP Permedia 2 won't struggle to run Quake 3 (with vertex lighting enabled) in the slightest.

Contrast this with your classic Amiga. Even if you can get the buses and CPU of your Amiga faster than the stock, you still have no L2 cache for your CPU, no DMA texture transfer between system RAM and VRAM, no interrupt driven double-buffered DMA for loading the command FIFO and many other cool things that I'm sure the 3DLabs supplied drivers make use of as standard.

On the Amiga, it's still CPU driven texture transfer and PIO. And it's still sitting below several layers of software abstraction (MiniGL, Warp3D). The entire set up is sub optimal.

I've tried to get DMA working but no luck. I have no idea if it's even possible with the Phase5 implementation of the hardware, for which I have no documentation at all.
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Offline delshay

Re: Quake 3 on OS4 Classic
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2014, 05:38:58 AM »
Which revision Blizzard card did you attempt DMA?

Revision 2 is probably the best card to attempt DMA,but both revisions have their Pros and Cons.

Permedia 2 documentation has increase to over 400 pages believed to contain hints & tips.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 06:11:44 AM by delshay »
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Offline delshay

Re: Quake 3 on OS4 Classic
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2014, 01:41:43 PM »
I don't think L2 cache would make much of a difference. Fast ram access is the highest it has ever been on classic and is not far off sdram performance.

Bvision(s) here do have one advantage over PC card(s) that use Permedia 2, Sgram is clocking higher than "any" PC version.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 01:47:14 PM by delshay »
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