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AuthorTopic: WinUAE exposing how crappy Windows is  (Read 9945 times)

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Offline lsmart

Re: WinUAE exposing how crappy Windows is
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2010, 06:44:59 PM »
Quote from: Arkhan;569630

It's not hard to manage either.  One day that myth might finally go away.


They get better at hiding the complexities, but in my workplace (Windows XP) there are regulary occasions, when something stopped working and we have to re-run installers to get it fixed, even though the same patches that were causing the problem were applied to 20 virually identical boxes that didn´t have issues.

After a while Nobody really cares anymore. All they will tell you is: well, this happens .. just re-run the installer.

At home (Windows 7) is much less troublesome (it runs less software of course), but one box came pre-installed with a lot of crap (like Notons cloud backup ...) and it´s already hard to find out which app is causing the annoying behaviour.

Every OS sucks! And Windows is a brilliant example for that fact.
 

Offline LoadWB

Re: WinUAE exposing how crappy Windows is
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2010, 06:53:54 PM »
Quote from: lsmart;569602
Well, Windows really encourages such sloppyness.

uh, what?

Program installers in *nix (make install, apget, and such) can, and sometimes do, scatter crap around the system.  Some Solaris packages do not remove all of their parts.  And Amiga programs can do the same damned thing.  Oh, and so can, and do, some Mac programs.

The operating system is irrelevant against sloppy, lazy, or incompetent programmers.  Morons are morons irrespective of the logo on the machine.

Quote
A simple Amiga programm doesn´t need an install process at all.


Cool.  I guess I can remove Installer.  Less facetiously, yes, a simple program with a simple binary or two can just be copied into place -- we do it all the time with programs like lzx, SGrab, etc.  More complex programs can be done manually as well, but Installer sure does make the process much simpler.
 

Offline KThunder

Re: WinUAE exposing how crappy Windows is
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2010, 03:04:04 PM »
Complex programs on the pc interact with the os and hardware in ways that a simple installer or no installer would not setup properly. This is like comparing a simple dos or c64 program with a multitasking AREXX aware program on the amiga. If it isn't setup properly it won't work.

Since a good proportion of amiga programs won't even install on the hard drive without some pretty decent effort and your pc sounds like it is running properly I don't really see your point, other than slagging off on the evil windows os that most of the world uses.
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline smerf

Re: WinUAE exposing how crappy Windows is
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2010, 03:41:57 PM »
Hi,

One of the best ways to describe the difference between windows and Amiga is:

1. on windows does anyone really know what is being installed, where it is being installed and how its installer really works?

2. On Amiga same question as above but if you don't know you can usually use a text editor and look at the install script  (some MAC owners will have a problem in this area) and a lot of times the Amiga pop ups will tell you what is missing and where, so you just look for it and put it there.

3. You really don't need a 4 year college course on how to overbloat programming on an Amiga.

4. If you do take a microbloat college course, then you will really know how to complicate things and really screw up computers.

5. On a MAC you really don't know how to do anything with a computer.
It is rummored that the only instruction page a MAC user has is a picture of where the on switch is at. Most MAC owners don't know it but if you look under the picture of the on switch there are actually printed words there telling you how to use the on switch along with the pictures.

Peace
smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline smerf

Re: WinUAE exposing how crappy Windows is
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2010, 03:54:40 PM »
Quote from: KThunder;569796
Complex programs on the pc interact with the os and hardware in ways that a simple installer or no installer would not setup properly. This is like comparing a simple dos or c64 program with a multitasking AREXX aware program on the amiga. If it isn't setup properly it won't work.

Since a good proportion of amiga programs won't even install on the hard drive without some pretty decent effort and your pc sounds like it is running properly I don't really see your point, other than slagging off on the evil windows os that most of the world uses.


Hi,

The only reason most of the world uses windows, is because Bill Gates made it so. Microsoft used money power and threats in order to get this monopoly. Case in point, why is there no games being made for Linux, and MAC users by such companies like EA, Ubi, Activision, etc.

I just named two powerful OS's that are being derailed by microsoft, and possibly JOBS. Microsoft saying that if companies support other platforms that there microsoft license may be voided and JOBS not wanting any other software co. programming for MACS.

and

By the way

other countries are beginning to see microsofts plan, and are dropping them for LINUX.

To think that I paid $159 for Microsoft home when I had Linux for free.

Oh well silly me.

Well got to run, I am going to re-do my computer again, you know the six month thing with micro soft.

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline tone007

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Re: WinUAE exposing how crappy Windows is
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2010, 04:22:14 PM »
Quote from: smerf;569803
Well got to run, I am going to re-do my computer again, you know the six month thing with micro soft.


There's another one of those silly Windows misconceptions.

I administer an office full of XP machines, many of which are still running the original install of Windows they came with from Dell back in 2004.  (Service packed and patched, of course.)

..and yes, those are some old machines.
3 Commodore file cabinets, 2 Commodore USB turntables, 1 AmigaWorld beer mug
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Offline smerf

Re: WinUAE exposing how crappy Windows is
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2010, 04:37:44 PM »
Quote from: tone007;569804
There's another one of those silly Windows misconceptions.

I administer an office full of XP machines, many of which are still running the original install of Windows they came with from Dell back in 2004.  (Service packed and patched, of course.)

..and yes, those are some old machines.


Hi,

Know what you mean by old machines, I am using a Dell now as one of my experimental computers for things like AROS, different Linux OS's, and Amiga forever.

and

Yes I can see why you stick up for micro crap, after all that is your job and how you make your bucks, now lets get down to the real reason that these machines stay up and running with out the 6 month thing, which is probably nightly backups, constant upgrades (don't know if this is all good though since most of my problems came from upgrades) limited use by personnel, in other words you keep them locked out of a lot of stuff, and give very few people administrative rights. You also have them locked out of a lot of internet sites, that is if you let them use the internet.

Not only that but WinXP is probably the best windows OS for being problem free, although Windows 7 is close.

Bet you can't say that you have done only one backup since 2004, but I can say that with my Amiga 4000 I have done only one backup since 1992 and I use my computer every day, and by the way I have upgraded my computer to OS 3.5 and OS 3.9 and used my one backup to bring in all my important data, now I am not going t say how many times that backup was upgraded to save new material, lharc is a wonderful program for this.

Well that is one thing Microsoft has done good for the world, it has created lots of jobs keeping there crappy OS running.

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline tone007

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Re: WinUAE exposing how crappy Windows is
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2010, 04:44:42 PM »
We never back up the workstations.

Until last year, they were still running on 256MB or 512MB of RAM, at which point I got them all to over 1GB.  Most of them are on their original 20GB and 40GB hard drives.

All of our users also have administrative rights to the machines, many of them are software developers but even administrative staff have full access to their machines.  Internet is wide open, nothing blocked, and these are daily use machines.

These machines are mostly hands-off when it comes to administration, I'm the only system administrator at a company of 100 employees.
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Offline runequester

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Re: WinUAE exposing how crappy Windows is
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2010, 05:16:10 PM »
Quote from: tone007;569806
We never back up the workstations.
 
Until last year, they were still running on 256MB or 512MB of RAM, at which point I got them all to over 1GB. Most of them are on their original 20GB and 40GB hard drives.
 
All of our users also have administrative rights to the machines, many of them are software developers but even administrative staff have full access to their machines. Internet is wide open, nothing blocked, and these are daily use machines.
 
These machines are mostly hands-off when it comes to administration, I'm the only system administrator at a company of 100 employees.

I think its safe to say your case is an exception. The place I work at has a constant flow of PC issues with their (mostly) XP stations. Stations are restored from images pretty routinely to keep everything chugging along.
 
From my school experience this was the same, though back then, it was win 95 and 98 mainly.
 

Offline AmigaHeretic

Re: WinUAE exposing how crappy Windows is
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2010, 07:32:46 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;569661

Windows isn't that hard to tidy up, it's just something new to learn.


If you know what you are removing.  With the registry it is really hard.

Taking Norton again, if you un-install and use their reg clean up tools, many search the registry for Symantec, Norton, etc there still keys that are left over.  There is hardly anyway to know what they go to and even Symantec probably doesn't know all the keys they leave behind.

{0A624A66-269C-11d3-80F4-00C04F68D969}
{11B529F0-7697-11d2-B34C-00104B22D5DF}
{4F9765D0-7907-11d2-B34C-00104B22D5DF}
{5DD3E8C0-7763-11d2-B34C-00104B22D5DF}
{5E07EBA4-B771-11d5-8152-00C04F68D969}
{7D604BFE-AC8F-11d1-9250-0060979C3468}
{CED9D6EE-B91A-11d5-8153-00C04F68D969}
{F01B4B50-775A-11d2-B34C-00104B22D5DF}
{0FD7D204-F362-11D2-80EB-00C04F68D969}
{103363F4-69F9-11D2-B34C-00104B22D5DF}
{7b77f3ef-b300-4413-8a80-6827fe37b694}
{F7B888EE-D30C-11D2-91BE-0020AF24FE3C}
{B2F04430-034A-11D3-9B19-00104B279EC4}

Are a few left over Norton keys and usually each is located in several places.  I use to use a program that watched how many keys were added when a program was installed.  Many programs add 3000+ reg keys.  

Files are easy enough to clean up(even if spread all over).  The windows registry on the other hand is just awful.  Wish they would spend their billions finding a better option after all these years.
A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
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Offline Golem!dk

Re: WinUAE exposing how crappy Windows is
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2010, 07:46:53 PM »
@AmigaHeretic

So other than the fact you are aware it is left there... does it really matter?
~
 

Offline Pyromania

Re: WinUAE exposing how crappy Windows is
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2010, 07:53:10 PM »
Quote from: smerf;569805


Well that is one thing Microsoft has done good for the world, it has created lots of jobs keeping there crappy OS running.

smerf


Windows is crap, yes that is a known issue.


:)
 

Offline ElPolloDiabl

Re: WinUAE exposing how crappy Windows is
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2010, 08:15:56 PM »
Easy fix: Change to a Linux distro and run Windows in a virtualbox. If it you get too much junk, delete a HDD file and use a back up.
Otherwise there is XP Lite which installs the minimal functions so it easier to see if something is there that shouldn't be.
Go Go Gadget Signature!
 

Offline AmigaHeretic

Re: WinUAE exposing how crappy Windows is
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2010, 08:30:02 PM »
Quote from: Golem!dk;569825
@AmigaHeretic

So other than the fact you are aware it is left there... does it really matter?


Speed is the first thing, but left over keys can cause problems.

Yeah, (I used to work for Symentec tech support) some left over keys can keep certain programs from installing correctly, some times when you install another program you loose internet access.  The left over sym* files in system32 are pretty notorious from still blocking internet access under certain circumstances, like you removed Norton and then installed Mcaffe and loose internet connection.  Then you immediately start troubleshooting Mcaffe when it is really left over Norton pieces.  

Those left over reg entries have been known to cause problems when installing a new NIC.  Usually a USB one.  



Again, though the biggest problem with ending up with 10,000s of keys left behind in the registry over time is speed.  

The actual physical reg files are stored in C:\windows\system32\config

they are usually the files "sam, security, system, software, default, sometimes userdiff"

The files are huge with clean install.  A single one of those might start out at 20MB by itself on a clean Windws install.  Not a reg expert, but I assume it loads these files and constantly searches them for settings when loading and using programs.

If you are a person that likes to install and test a lot programs then un-install them, then these files just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger.  Then it takes longer for the programs you actually have installed to use and to search the reg files.

One reg file can normally be over 100MB.  That's bigger than some OS installs.  Add the fact that there are several separate reg files and you can end up with hundreds of megabytes of crap reg info slowing the system.  Making your programs start up slower etc.
A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
Back in my day, we didn\'t have water. We only had Oxygen and Hydrogen, and we\'d just have to shove them together.
 

Offline LoadWB

Re: WinUAE exposing how crappy Windows is
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2010, 08:31:51 PM »
Quote from: runequester;569810
I think its safe to say your case is an exception. The place I work at has a constant flow of PC issues with their (mostly) XP stations. Stations are restored from images pretty routinely to keep everything chugging along.


I would say not.  I have workstations at several sites which are running XP loads which are now over four years old.  They have not replaced the machines due to budget constraints, but we have upgraded most of them to 1GB of memory.

In my professional experience -- and before anyone jumps on the "dfense of microshaft shyte" bandwagon, know that I support and work on several operating systems, so shove it -- when any of these machines have had to be reloaded, and especially numerous times, we finally tracked the problem to bad hardware.  In could, in fact, quantify the problem if I went through my notes of the past eight years to specific percentages of failures which were hard drives, RAM, and motherboard, in that order.  In a couple of cases a bad video card was the culprit.

A lot of people will quickly blame a driver when it crashes.  Frankly, it is an amateur mistake and pretty common.  The driver will crash, the updated driver will crash, so the assumption is the driver is crap and replacement hardware is installed.  Voila, accidental solution.  But what really happens is the failed hardware causes the driver to crash, and usually only happens, especially in the case of video cards, once Windows activates the advanced features of the device.  So, then it looks like Windows did it.

15 years professional experience in this industry and I can tell you with full confidence that there are a good number of people out there who will curse and swear at the wrong things, presenting themselves as experts, but each is really a rank amateur with not a real clue of how things work.

Those kinds of people make me a good deal of money.