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AuthorTopic: Bastards!!!  (Read 9602 times)

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Offline kolla

Re: Bastards!!!
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2010, 02:48:19 AM »
Quote from: Arkhan;550480
actually i think he was trying to point out that you're being dramatic.

PS3 wasn't made to run Linux.

Well, that would be true if it wasn't for the fact that Sony themselves provided Linux distro for it and also advertised and sold the PS3 as a developer platform.

It isn't new for them, they also made a Linux kit for PS2, and just like now, they pulled out of it with the release of the "slim" device.

Quote
It was made to play metal gear solid 4, time crisis 4, FF13, and various other epic games, on gigantic HDMI TVs with surround sound.  

If you do not agree, then PS3 is not for you.

You've obviously been out of the loop regarding the PS3 - there are enough revisionists around in the world, please do some research before posting. For example you can start with  Wikipedia.

And for the record - I think PS3 all in all sucks bigtime, I had one for a while and was not satisfied at all. :)
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Offline Arkhan

Re: Bastards!!!
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2010, 03:01:21 AM »
it wasn't MADE to run Linux.  It was just an OPTION.  One that set it apart from the 360 and it's locked-in setup.  A neat selling point for those people out there that have to put Linux on everything known to man.

Sony didn't sit down at the big ol' conference table and go

"guys, we need to make a 600$ console designed around the fact that it can run a free OS.  Its the future of game consoles.  Our propriety software isn't important."

I don't give two shits what Wikipedia says about "other OS" and crap for the PS3.   Yeah, you can put Linux on there.  Yeah, its neat.  Yeah, tinkering and homebrewing can happen because of it.... but.....

PS3 development under random Linux distros sucks.  Ever try it?  I have.  You don't get full fun of the hardware, and it's mostly a hobby/tinkering sort of thing.  You can get the same performance out of a PC from the early 2000s.

If you want to really develop for the thing, you have to go legit.  I've had ps3 since launch day and have been messing with Linux and development on it since it was possible as well...  

So, uh, take your "research" comment, and kindly shove it.
I am a negative, rude, prick.  


"Aetherbyte: My fledgling game studio!":  << Probably not coming to an Amiga near you because you all suck! :roflmao:
 

Offline dreamcast270mhz

Re: Bastards!!!
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2010, 03:19:04 AM »
Sleazebags, this is why Sony SUCKS! THEY MUST DIE AND ARE EVEL!! Look up Mash it Up smashing PS2, tells you why the DC was better.... by smashing. Actually, sony's consoles have been underpowered since PS1;

PSX: 34mhz MIPS 2mb
Saturn: 2x SH-2 28mhz each 2mb each

PS2: 298mhz 64-bit 2mb VRAM 32mb RDRAM
DC: 200MHZ 64/128 SH-4 4mb VRAM 16MB SRAM

And the games were weaker:

PSX: Grandia: Washed out and crackly sound/GFX, heavy pixelation
Saturn: Grandia, cleaner, better smoothness, lower pixelation

PS2: Dead Or Alive 2: Inferior GFX to Naomi
DC: On par with NAOMI
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Offline kickstart

Re: Bastards!!!
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2010, 03:43:21 AM »
Quote from: koaftder;550471
Problem is, Sony actually marketed this thing as a cheap developer machine for folks who wanted to jump on the cell bandwagon and promoted linux on the device. Now they've changed their minds. Once again, Sony fraks their users.

I dont know the marketing of ps3 on the united states but in europe, ps3 is sold like a games console (that is) and in some forums you can learn to install some linux distribution on it, nothing more.

Im not sure but you cant access to all ps3 resources with linux.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 06:40:50 AM by SysAdmin »
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Offline koaftder

Re: Bastards!!!
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2010, 03:46:14 AM »
Quote from: Arkhan;550484
it wasn't MADE to run Linux. It was just an OPTION. One that set it apart from the 360 and it's locked-in setup. A neat selling point for those people out there that have to put Linux on everything known to man.
 
Sony didn't sit down at the big ol' conference table and go
 
"guys, we need to make a 600$ console designed around the fact that it can run a free OS. Its the future of game consoles. Our propriety software isn't important."
 
I don't give two shits what Wikipedia says about "other OS" and crap for the PS3. Yeah, you can put Linux on there. Yeah, its neat. Yeah, tinkering and homebrewing can happen because of it.... but.....
 
PS3 development under random Linux distros sucks. Ever try it? I have. You don't get full fun of the hardware, and it's mostly a hobby/tinkering sort of thing. You can get the same performance out of a PC from the early 2000s.
 
If you want to really develop for the thing, you have to go legit. I've had ps3 since launch day and have been messing with Linux and development on it since it was possible as well...
 
So, uh, take your "research" comment, and kindly shove it.

tsk, tsk.
 
"it was fully intended that you, a PS3 owner, could play games, watch movies, view photos, listen to music, and run a full-featured Linux operating system that transforms your PS3 into a home computer." -- Sony
 
The PS3 was marketed as a machine that would pwn the planet, ass rape your living room, have sex with you, solve global warming and yes, run linux. The cell was supposed to be the greatest thing EVAR and the way to get familiar with it was to buy a PS3. Hell, Sony even marketed this as a stepping stone to getting user created games on their service. Promises bigger than even what A-Eon is coming up with right now. And Sony just said "Frak You" to all the folks who bought into it.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 03:55:41 AM by SysAdmin »
 

Offline kickstart

Re: Bastards!!!
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2010, 03:48:08 AM »
Quote from: dreamcast270mhz;550486
Sleazebags, this is why Sony SUCKS! THEY MUST DIE AND ARE EVEL!! Look up Mash it Up smashing PS2, tells you why the DC was better.... by smashing. Actually, sony's consoles have been underpowered since PS1;

PSX: 34mhz MIPS 2mb
Saturn: 2x SH-2 28mhz each 2mb each

PS2: 298mhz 64-bit 2mb VRAM 32mb RDRAM
DC: 200MHZ 64/128 SH-4 4mb VRAM 16MB SRAM

And the games were weaker:

PSX: Grandia: Washed out and crackly sound/GFX, heavy pixelation
Saturn: Grandia, cleaner, better smoothness, lower pixelation

PS2: Dead Or Alive 2: Inferior GFX to Naomi
DC: On par with NAOMI


Please dont compare psx vs saturn, saturn came late to the party and dreamcast too early, but if you are a sega fan and comparisions arent fair.
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Offline Arkhan

Re: Bastards!!!
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2010, 04:05:33 AM »
Quote from: kickstart;550487
I dont know the marketing of ps3 on the united states but in europe, ps3 is sold like a games console (that is) and in some forums you can learn to install some linux distribution on it, nothing more.

Im not sure but you cant access to all ps3 resources with linux.

Its marketed as a game console everywhere!  Thats the primary software for the thing.  You don't really see the same amount of magazines/site coverage/etc that you do for the media capabilities of the PS3. :)   All the extra frills outside of the gaming portion are about on par with all the other random media crap out there for PC.  Yeah, its there.  Yeah, it works, yeah, its not selling the system.

and no you don't get full ps3 access with linux.  It sucks :( .   I stopped messing with it recently but I do remember reading that someone had cracked it to where you could..




Quote from: koaftder;550488
tsk, tsk.

"it was fully intended that you, a PS3 owner, could play games, watch movies, view photos, listen to music, and run a full-featured Linux operating system that transforms your PS3 into a home computer." -- Sony

The PS3 was marketed as a machine that would pwn the planet, ass rape your living room, have sex with you, solve global warming and yes, run linux. The cell was supposed to be the greatest thing EVAR and the way to get familiar with it was to buy a PS3. Hell, Sony even marketed this as a stepping stone to getting user created games on their service. Promises bigger than even what A-Eon is coming up with right now. And Sony just said "Frak You" to all the folks who bought into it.

tsk tsk what?  Where does that quote say WITH LINUX YOU CAN BE JAWESOME DEVELOPER AND MAEK GAMES.   It doesn't.   A home computer is not a developer computer.    you can , for the price of a ps3, have linux and do your normal day to day computer stuff with it, and use the media center like capabilities of it..... but cmon, if Sony released their development kit.... the FULL featured one, for free under Linux, the homebrew market would be as crapped up as the 360 one....

full of crappy games and reskinned tech demos...

Everything that quote says, DID happen for the PS3, and is perfectly fine.  Better than the 360's implementation too.

The cell thing IS awesome, for games.  I don't think they ever had much intention of using the cell technology for other software.  Office suites and stuff for the PS3 would be pretty funny though.

Lots of games make great use of cell power.  and like I said, thats what its all designed for.   If the thing was designed to be a podunk little media center/internet browser, you'd have something akin to the Wii in terms of power.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 06:41:32 AM by SysAdmin »
I am a negative, rude, prick.  


"Aetherbyte: My fledgling game studio!":  << Probably not coming to an Amiga near you because you all suck! :roflmao:
 

Offline kolla

Re: Bastards!!!
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2010, 04:11:50 AM »
Quote from: Arkhan;550484
it wasn't MADE to run Linux.  It was just an OPTION.  One that set it apart from the 360 and it's locked-in setup.  A neat selling point for those people out there that have to put Linux on everything known to man.

No, those were not the target.

Quote

Sony didn't sit down at the big ol' conference table and go

"guys, we need to make a 600$ console designed around the fact that it can run a free OS.  Its the future of game consoles.  Our propriety software isn't important."


Who said so? Again you're just babling. As for who wanted the OtherOS to be there, I bet it wasnt Sony in the first place. More likely it was IBM.
But again - that is beside the point.

Quote
I don't give two shits what Wikipedia says about "other OS" and crap for the PS3.   Yeah, you can put Linux on there.  Yeah, its neat.  Yeah, tinkering and homebrewing can happen because of it.... but.....
... but that was also not the point. Nice to see that you admit that you dont give two shits about facts, btw. I suppose that is transferable to other postings you make as well?

Quote
PS3 development under random Linux distros sucks.  Ever try it?
Sure, and indeed it sucks - hence I gave away my PS3.

Quote
I have. You don't get full fun of the hardware, and it's mostly a hobby/tinkering sort of thing.  You can get the same performance out of a PC from the early 2000s.
Ah, you need to post on those "we want AmigaOS on PS3" threads. It's not correct to say that "it's mostly a hobby/tinkering sort of thing", that is what the PS3 and Cell is mostly useless for. What is _is_ usable for though, is running dedicated code for various number crunching, something hobby/tinkerers have no use for. And this is also what the PS3 has been used for in a few academic scenarious.

Quote
If you want to really develop for the thing, you have to go legit.
Development under Linux on it was always legit.

Quote
I've had ps3 since launch day and have been messing with Linux and development on it since it was possible as well...
So have I.

Quote
So, uh, take your "research" comment, and kindly shove it.


I will, up yours.

Really, you're missing the entire point here - which wasnt whether the PS3 sucks for running Linux on, or doing development on. The point is that they advertised and sold it also as a developer machine for Cell with Linux as a platform. Peraps this was under preasure from IBM, but that is not really relevant. They are now in effect pulling that option, and alot of people will be pissed about it, and rightfully so.

And, if you've been paying attention, you'd notice that I see Sony's move as a positive thing, since it will only hurt Sony, which I, personally, think is great. :laughing:
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Offline kolla

Re: Bastards!!!
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2010, 04:16:46 AM »
Quote from: kickstart;550487
I dont know the marketing of ps3 on the united states but in europe, ps3 is sold like a games console (that is) and in some forums you can learn to install some linux distribution on it, nothing more.

Im not sure but you cant access to all ps3 resources with linux.


They didn't make much of a point of it mainstream, but I can assure you that it was advertised it in various academic/scientific media. There was a period I was fed up with all the PS3 crap showing up eveywhere.
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Offline kolla

Re: Bastards!!!
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2010, 04:35:06 AM »
Quote from: Arkhan;550493
The cell thing IS awesome, for games.  I don't think they ever had much intention of using the cell technology for other software.  Office suites and stuff for the PS3 would be pretty funny though.

May I again point to Wikipedia, even though you dont give a crap, maybe others do.

Quote
Lots of games make great use of cell power.
Really? Are you sure?

Quote
and like I said, thats what its all designed for.   If the thing was designed to be a podunk little media center/internet browser, you'd have something akin to the Wii in terms of power.

I'm almost tempted to say that it is akin to the Wii in terms of power, when it comes to general use. I have two Wiis with Linux on, and the difference to running Linux on the PS3 is not as big as it should be, considering the numbers. :laughing:

The PS3 was designed to generate a money flow, and part of that deal was to atract developers to Cell. This, for most part, failed, and now Sony is doing a clean-up operation, which also will fail. I like it. :)
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Offline coldfish

Re: Bastards!!!
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2010, 04:42:47 AM »
I dont know why anyone's surprised at this, Sony always -remove- features in their consoles over time.

Hard luck for anyone actually wanting/using those features.

Many of the "more interesting features" are just early-adopter fodder, once the console breaks the mainstream, Sony's loyal, premium-paying fanbase are soon forgotten.

It's a process they've gone through again and again and each generation the suckers come back for more.

-Cell started out as the "be all and end all" of CPU architecture and was quickly proven to be more exotic headache than paradigm shift.

-BluRay was plugged as the must-have format for HD viewing but it's now more meh than yeh.

The shine of Sony's hype soon wears off like chrome plating on cheap plastic.

Personally, I treat consoles as gaming appliances nothing more.  If they happen to be able to do other things, take it as a bonus but expect that the copyright owner can at any time take their toys away making the system unusable for those things.
 

Offline ElPolloDiabl

Re: Bastards!!!
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2010, 04:47:13 AM »
I remember them advertising it as a fully capable computer. Looks like false advertising to me.
Gimping everything seems to be popular sport for companies nowadays. No doubt they will reintroduce the feature on an 'upgraded' model and charge you again for the privilege of 'enhanced features'.
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Offline kolla

Re: Bastards!!!
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2010, 05:01:21 AM »
And where is the academic PS3 dev kit that was in beta last summer, that was meant to allow students and universities to develop applications for the "game OS" directly?

"It's a Sony - Oh, no!"
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Offline Arkhan

Re: Bastards!!!
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2010, 05:16:16 AM »
Quote from: kolla;550494
Who said so? Again you're just babling. As for who wanted the OtherOS to be there, I bet it wasnt Sony in the first place. More likely it was IBM.
But again - that is beside the point.
Babbling?  I think its a pretty solid remark.  To think the console, a VIDEO GAME console, was designed and planned out with Other OS's on it being the top priority, isn't very reasonable.  The Playstation is, and will always be, games first, other stuff second.  You ever see any of the conferences focusing on OMGLINUX?  No.  Pretty sure the key emphasis was the gaming platform.

Quote
... but that was also not the point. Nice to see that you admit that you dont give two shits about facts, btw. I suppose that is transferable to other postings you make as well?
No, you misunderstand.  I give a shit about facts, and am not saying that page is wrong.   I just don't go scour wikipedia for factoids to copy pasta into forums to make it look like Im more knowledgeable.  Especially because the link you posted about OtherOS wasn't really anything of importance.


Quote
Ah, you need to post on those "we want AmigaOS on PS3" threads. It's not correct to say that "it's mostly a hobby/tinkering sort of thing", that is what the PS3 and Cell is mostly useless for. What is _is_ usable for though, is running dedicated code for various number crunching, something hobby/tinkerers have no use for. And this is also what the PS3 has been used for in a few academic scenarious.
its still tinkering no matter how you want to slice it...academia isn't commercial.  and, by "hobby" , I am referring to hobby game development.  It's a novel idea, but it was limited from the get-go.   And uhhhh who are you to say hobbyists/tinkerers don't have a use for running dedicated number crunching algorithms, etc.?  You got some surveillance on the entire PS3 development community?    


Quote
Development under Linux on it was always legit.
My bad, "official".  The fully licensed development kit is worlds better than the goofy nonsense you can do with a basement Linux install.


Quote
I will, up yours.
Thanks, but no thanks.  I'm not into that.  I'm sure you'll find someone who is though!


Quote
Really, you're missing the entire point here - which wasnt whether the PS3 sucks for running Linux on, or doing development on. The point is that they advertised and sold it also as a developer machine for Cell with Linux as a platform. Peraps this was under preasure from IBM, but that is not really relevant. They are now in effect pulling that option, and alot of people will be pissed about it, and rightfully so.
Lol, you underestimate people and their determination.  I won't be surprised when Linux reappears on PS3 sometime in the future either by retracting the kill from Sony (once they get security under control), or by someones brute force.  Most likely, the someone will be Geohot again.   You did read the information right?  Dude's already planning to work around it.  Welcome to the world of hackers..?  

and I really think the advertising in regards to linux was a nice afterthought.  Didn't seem to be the emphasis, ever.  


Quote
And, if you've been paying attention, you'd notice that I see Sony's move as a positive thing, since it will only hurt Sony, which I, personally, think is great. :laughing:
Oh, so you're one of those biased Anti-Sony people.   That explains a lot.

Quote
May I again point to Wikipedia, even though you dont give a crap, maybe others do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(microprocessor)
Right, you are aware that there is a difference between Cell in a ps3, and cell at large right?   By "They" I mean, Sony.  With the PS3.   The platform we are discussing here.    Im sure all of the plans for OTHER applications of Cell besides games were planned with DIFFERENT hardware in mind.   Not a video game console.  Hell its the second paragraph of the article.  Did you read it at all?  Or... did you just assume it agreed 100% with what you were thinking and blindly pasted it here.



Quote from:  coldfish
Personally, I treat consoles as gaming appliances nothing more.  If they happen to be able to do other things, take it as a bonus but expect that the copyright owner can at any time take their toys away making the system unusable for those things.

:D  Exactly.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 05:25:52 AM by Arkhan »
I am a negative, rude, prick.  


"Aetherbyte: My fledgling game studio!":  << Probably not coming to an Amiga near you because you all suck! :roflmao:
 

Offline EvilGuy

Re: Bastards!!!
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2010, 05:22:53 AM »
Quote from: rossi46;550470

Seriously though, you're gobsmacked? Over a games machine OS?


Oh the irony of this comment on an Amiga forum!

Amiga is a games machine dammit.

/ducks