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AuthorTopic: Natami 3D-artist Interview  (Read 5333 times)

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Offline Piru

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Re: Natami 3D-artist Interview
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2009, 07:14:41 AM »
Quote from: JimS;534031
some people don't understand that a couple of guys in their basements don't have the resources of CBM's entire engineering department.

I agree. Most of them can be found from natami.net forum.
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Natami 3D-artist Interview
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2009, 07:18:06 AM »
Quote from: AmigaHeretic;534035
Also, let us not forget a similar situation...
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19361&highlight=minimig+dennis&page=1
I have to say I was sceptical at first, too, but Dennis had something in his favor that Natami guys lack: Common sense and perspective.

Dennis knew very well that he had to cap the feature creep or he'd never finish the project.

Alternatively it's just that natami guys are suffering from second-system syndrome (after all they wouldn't want to just release yet another minimig).
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 10:35:27 AM by Piru »
 

Offline utri007

Re: Natami 3D-artist Interview
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2009, 06:20:52 PM »
BoXeR is good exsample for feature creep and I'm afraid that it's true with Natami allso.

Second system syndrome, that is something wich I disacree.

Really hope that natami team has keep their foots on the ground.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 06:22:43 PM by utri007 »
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Offline ElPolloDiabl

Re: Natami 3D-artist Interview
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2009, 07:24:32 PM »
I think the BoXer developer got bogged down reverse engineering the chipset. That was a shame because it looked we would have an affordable A4000 with PCI support. Unfortunately it helped divide and demoralise the community with more vaporware.
If they have the chipset done, there is no reason this thing isn't ready to roll. The only thing left is price and whether or not I will have to source a 68060 to run it.
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Offline RMK305

Re: Natami 3D-artist Interview
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2009, 08:05:27 PM »
I really hope they finish the project and offer the final product for sale. My opinion is that their biggest mistake they was to create a forum which has let a number of people add ideas to the spec list as previously mentioned and ask stupid f*@#ing questions like "How will it compare to a PS3?". I can't help but think it would be here by now if they had just worked to their original plan and specs with a few minor in house additions.
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Offline AmigaHeretic

Re: Natami 3D-artist Interview
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2009, 08:54:42 PM »
Quote from: Fanscale;534133
I think the BoXer developer got bogged down reverse engineering the chipset. That was a shame because it looked we would have an affordable A4000 with PCI support. Unfortunately it helped divide and demoralise the community with more vaporware.
If they have the chipset done, there is no reason this thing isn't ready to roll. The only thing left is price and whether or not I will have to source a 68060 to run it.



But the boxer is a good example of what I am talking about.  Boxer was being presented by a "company" they were doing advertising for it an taking a pre orders in the amount of $1495.  $300 off what was suppose to be the regular price.


So what if Natami guys have feature creep and so what if it never gets done?   They aren't asking for your money they aren't themselves saying it will ever be "finished".  It's a hobby project and they are asking nothing from us.  


Hence I don't see the need to belittle them in every thread that comes up about Natami.


Making fun of ACK Controls and Amiga Inc on the other hand is always welcome!! ;-)
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Offline persia

Re: Natami 3D-artist Interview
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2009, 12:54:13 AM »
second-system syndrome, check.  Feature creep, check.

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Offline EDanaII

Re: Natami 3D-artist Interview
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2009, 12:58:00 AM »
What I find entertaining about this entire conversation is the notion of scope creep introduced by Piru. Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that Piru is wrong, but rather, I'm using this as an oppurtunity to talk about the _real Amiga curse._ :)

Remember, the Amiga was originally developed by a small group of people -- not hugely different from "a couple of guys in their basement." The Amiga was ultimately purchased by Commodore when it began to run out of funds. In other words, they too were a victim of "feature creep." After all, if they had limited the development to what was within their means, they could have released a much less advanced Amiga... probably not much more powerful than the Macintosh of that time.

Ultimately, that's what killed the Amiga was Commodore's failure to make the Amiga the best it could be, motivated in part by their need to keep their costs down by limiting scope creep. If they had aggressively pursued the Amiga's graphics capabilities and kept it well ahead of the competition, I'm willing to bet you the machine would be alive today as a viable alternative to the PC and the Mac.

Now, having said that, just like Piru, I'm skeptical. They have a tall hill to climb and a desire to make a better machine that can only make that hill taller. Yes, like Dennis, I'd limit the scope to what I could reasonabley achieve, but so what if they don't? As far as I know, only their own money is involved -- someone correct me if I'm wrong here -- so what does it matter how tall that hill is?

So, I'll continue to watch and wait and will be happy if they actually produce something. If they fail, the Amiga community will be no worse off than it was before...

But that's my two cents.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 12:59:30 AM by EDanaII »
Ed.
 

Offline Methuselas

Re: Natami 3D-artist Interview
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2009, 01:10:11 AM »
Quote from: Fanscale;534133
I think the BoXer developer got bogged down reverse engineering the chipset. That was a shame because it looked we would have an affordable A4000 with PCI support. Unfortunately it helped divide and demoralise the community with more vaporware.

The demoralizing after the BoXer fiasco came not from Mick Tinker, but from that POS company, Anti-Gravity, who took people's money for pre-order and then when Mick said the BoXer couldn't be done, conveniently went "bankrupt"  and out of business before returning the pre-orders. I know, for a fact, 'cos I was one of those pre-orders. :madashell:
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Offline JimS

Re: Natami 3D-artist Interview
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2009, 01:25:16 AM »
Quote from: EDanaII;534154

Remember, the Amiga was originally developed by a small group of people -- not hugely different from "a couple of guys in their basement." The Amiga was ultimately purchased by Commodore when it began to run out of funds. In other words, they too were a victim of "feature creep." After all, if they had limited the development to what was within their means, they could have released a much less advanced Amiga... probably not much more powerful than the Macintosh of that time.


Well, since I first mentioned the "couple of guys in their basement", let me say that that was not meant disparagingly. The original Amiga team may have been small, but it was intended from the start as a commercial venture. The Amiga was supposed to be a video game console at first, but when the bottom dropped out of that market, they shifted directions toward a full computer. Not what I would call "feeture creep", more like survival. But that was the 80s... now the market is settled, I don't believe anyone could introduce a new or even old machine in new clothes and expect to capture anything more than a hobbyist niche.

On the other hand, with modern FPGA technology, a small team or even an individual cam produce cool stuff for that niche.

Quote

So, I'll continue to watch and wait and will be happy if they actually produce something. If they fail, the Amiga community will be no worse off than it was before...

But that's my two cents.


Now, *that* I agree with.... two more cents. ;-)
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Offline Flashlab

Re: Natami 3D-artist Interview
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2009, 07:15:38 AM »
Quote from: Piru;534041
I agree. Most of them can be found from natami.net forum.


Although I too have an account there I must agree that some of the posters there don't have any realistic view on what Natami could be (if it will be finished ever).

So I too think that adding a forum was not a good idea and maybe some of the Natami team think it backfired too; seeing that the main engineer is not posting any more.
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Offline XDelusion

Re: Natami 3D-artist Interview
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2009, 08:05:36 AM »
Amiga, such an emotional subject. :)
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Offline Ancalimon

Re: Natami 3D-artist Interview
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2009, 08:40:03 AM »
Maybe if some other talented guys like them joined them to help their hobby, the project could advance faster.
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Offline persia

Re: Natami 3D-artist Interview
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2009, 04:37:33 PM »
The problem is they don't want to be known as a better minimig, so they are asking for too much.  They are trying to develop an Amiga that might have existed had much of the nineties and naughties not happened....
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Offline desiv

Re: Natami 3D-artist Interview
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2009, 07:50:44 PM »
Quote from: persia;534233
The problem is they don't want to be known as a better minimig, so they are asking for too much.  They are trying to develop an Amiga that might have existed had much of the nineties and naughties not happened....

I suppose it really remains to be seen whether or not that actually is a problem.

Scope creep can kill a project with deadlines and financial obligations.

This project?  It's much less clear cut..

Without scope creep, maybe they could have released sooner (or actually released at all)...

With scope creep, they might not release.  Or maybe they will in 2011 or 12...  and if they do?  Well, they do...

If I miss a deadline at work because of scope creep, people get mad.
If I miss a deadline at home because of scope creep, my Pole Position cab stays broken for another few months...  But eventually, maybe I do get it working as a multi-racing game cab.  Or, maybe I don't..
Either way, no biggie...

Do I want Natami to succeed?  Yes.  Would less scope creep be better?  Depends on whether they ever release and what they release...

After all, it's not a commercial venture..

And even if it were, I've seen lots of projects with scope creep eventually make it.  Usually more painfully than it should have been, but it can be done.

desiv
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