Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Amiga Kit Amiga Store Hollywood MAL AMIStore App Store A600 Memory

AuthorTopic: OS 4 hardware  (Read 4852 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline x303

Re: OS 4 hardware
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2009, 12:02:35 PM »
Quote from: trekiej;532510
I have heard that OS4.X is under powered on Sam 440.
 * * On what do you think it should be run?
Amiga OS was, is and might always be underpowered. :rolleyes:
 
 
  x303 :D :D :D
 

Offline spirantho

Re: OS 4 hardware
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2009, 12:15:04 PM »
Quote from: itix;532544
I dont know but my Pegasos 2 G4 @ 1GHz did not cost as much as SAM.


I just did quick a good search and came up with this page:
http://www.osnews.com/comments/5493

Check the 5th comment down, labeled " Pricing is VERY high".

Pegasos was in exactly the same boat while it was being made. Also don't forget the Sam440ep comes with the CPU, 1/2GB RAM and a graphics card.

I'm not saying the Pegasos is overpriced, I'm just saying neither are exactly cheap, but for the same reasons.
--
Ian Gledhill
ian.gledhill@btinternit.com (except it should be internEt of course...!)
Check out my shop! http://www.mutant-caterpillar.co.uk/shop/ - for 8-bit (and soon 16-bit) goodness!
 

Offline cha05e90

Re: OS 4 hardware
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2009, 12:39:40 PM »
@spirantho

Yep. In the old days when Pegasos' and all AmigaOne incarnations were new, I found them really pricy - 'cos I did not have the money to buy them! This is the reason why I did not jump on one of the two NextGen Amiga trains back then - I couldn't afford it. BUT: I never ever complained about that prices in that days, 'cos to me they both had realistic pricing. And I still find this is true for an SAM as well - it is (my) luck, that I can afford this piece of HW now.
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000
 

Offline itix

Re: OS 4 hardware
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2009, 01:22:01 PM »
Quote from: spirantho;532551
I just did quick a good search and came up with this page:
http://www.osnews.com/comments/5493

Check the 5th comment down, labeled " Pricing is VERY high".

Pegasos was in exactly the same boat while it was being made. Also don't forget the Sam440ep comes with the CPU, 1/2GB RAM and a graphics card.

I'm not saying the Pegasos is overpriced, I'm just saying neither are exactly cheap, but for the same reasons.


Pegasos indeed was not cheap. It was too expensive and I could not afford it. Luckily I got it for free ;-)

Btw. Pegasos I/II came with the CPU. No RAM nor gfx card but those cost nothing for Pegasos II. Pegasos I used expensive and rare registered SDRAM.
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook
 

Offline tone007

  • sad moaning faced git
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2008
  • Posts: 3238
  • Total likes: 0
Re: OS 4 hardware
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2009, 01:39:52 PM »
Quote from: trekiej;532510
I have heard that OS4.X is under powered on Sam 440.
On what do you think it should be run?


Runs fine on an AmigaOne 600MHz G3, so it should probably run well (performance-wise, at least) on a Sam, which has slightly higher specs.
3 Commodore file cabinets, 2 Commodore USB turntables, 1 AmigaWorld beer mug
Alienware M14x i7 laptop running AmigaForever
 

Offline Daedalus

Re: OS 4 hardware
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2009, 01:52:27 PM »
Quote from: TCMSLP;532545
mmmMMMmmm that Powerstation would make a fantastic OS4 machine.  Assuming OS4 could handle multiple cores (which I suspect it can't) - and assuming we had useful apps that made use of all that power.  It certainly makes the SAM seem extortionately expensive though.


I'd imagine the Powerstation would sell many more units than the SAM, allowing slightly better economies of scale than ACube get from the SAM boards. A complete SAM system, while much less powerful, starts at €719 which isn't all that bad for a system that hopes to sell a few thousand units at best! Currently OS4 does not support multiple cores/CPUs, but it is planned for a future update to the OS. This kind of support requires a great deal of work on the OS at a very low level, so it won't be today or tomorrow, but it'll come...
Engineers do it with precision
--
http://www.robthenerd.com
 

Offline amigagr

Re: OS 4 hardware
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2009, 02:02:53 PM »
@itix: last time pegasos2 was available at gss data, it was around 850 euro, complete system.
A3040/25 AmigaOS 3.9
A1260BPPC AmigaOS 3.9/4.0
Sam440ep AmigaOS 4.1.2
PegasosII/G3 AmigaOS 4.1.2/MorphOS 2.7/Debian 5.0.7/SUSE 11.1
MacMini/G4 1.5 MorphOS 2.7/OSX 10.5.8
Long Live Amiga

If i am going to have bugs on my system,
at least let me keep the latest versions.
Neil Bothwick
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

Re: OS 4 hardware
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2009, 02:28:08 PM »
Quote from: trekiej;532510
I have heard that OS4.X is under powered on Sam 440.


It's indeed a very weak CPU. OS4 can run on it without the OS feeling sluggish though (which is something often pointed out), but that's only because it is a lean OS, not because it's a strong engine under the hood. Your need for a strong engine comes from the *applications*.


Quote
On what do you think it should be run?


If you'd like to enjoy media files, browse those little more complex web pages, run legacy 68k applications or other emulated software, compile stuff, render stuff, etc, then you don't want anything less than a real G4. Especially since G4 hardware is so darn cheap and easy to get today.
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline itix

Re: OS 4 hardware
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2009, 02:32:36 PM »
Quote from: amigagr;532566
@itix: last time pegasos2 was available at gss data, it was around 850 euro, complete system.


Yep. Expensive.

At AmigaKit complete systems:

SAM 440EP 553MHz: 700e
SAM 440EP 667MHz: 800e
SAM FLEX   733MHz: 750e

Flex is affordable but you probably would not want to go for it after Peg2.
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook
 

Offline persia

Re: OS 4 hardware
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2009, 03:06:48 PM »
Yep, the specs of a SAM board are about those of an iPhone or iPod.  Compare the price of a netbook which is a single core system running at twice the clock rate and you see what we mean by overpriced.

Until they can get price performance at least down to Mac standards it's hard to justify buying a SAM...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

What we\'re witnessing is the sad, lonely crowing of that last, doomed cock.
 

Offline Gulliver

Re: OS 4 hardware
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2009, 03:06:48 PM »
I totally agree that the Pegasos when released was really pricey, but then how long ago was that. I mean, a lot of time has passed since then...
So when the Pegasos was released it was then at NEARLY the same technlogical pace as mainstream ppc development.
So make yourself this question: Is a 533-733 Mhz PPC motherboard in the year 2009 worth 700 EURO?

This is not about economy of scale! It is about selling overpriced products in a niche market(Amiga), which are remanent stock of other markets, in this case the embedded market.
Economy of scale is the excuse they told you, so you can mentally cope with extremely high prices. Simple proof you are wrong: The Efika motherboard, still selling, with a markup for the retailer (http://www.directron.com) is a 400MHZ PPC design at 66 EURO. So how on earth is it possible that a 533MHZ PPC design (SAM440), costs 700 EURO?

Its hilarious!
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

Re: OS 4 hardware
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2009, 03:22:21 PM »
Quote from: amigagr;532566
@itix: last time pegasos2 was available at gss data, it was around 850 euro, complete system.


GGS Data were extremely nice to deal with, and I did much business with Gunne for this reason, but they were never competitive in price, especially not on *systems* (due to their high prices on parts), and especially not with Sweden's 25% VAT included (highest in Europe?).

Open Desktop Workstation, $799 (~530 EUR in todays rate):

* Pegasos II with 1GHz G4 processor
* 512MB DDR RAM
* 80GB ATA100 Hard Disk
* Dual-Layer DVD±RW Drive
* ATI Radeon 9250 graphics
* Low Profile Small Footprint Case

Link

The Pegasos2 motherboard with G4 CPU @ 1GHz was AFAIK introduced at $499 (~330 EUR in todays rate). The price dropped slightly over time, and when it reached the end of line, the last Pegasos2+G4 was sold at $399 (~260 EUR).
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

Re: OS 4 hardware
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2009, 03:41:54 PM »
Quote from: cha05e90;532538
"I believe if the Sam440 could be low cost"

The Sam is already low cost. A new high end PPC system would easily cost around 1000€ and up.


Sam is low cost? Huh?

OK, let's make a comparison on what you can get today if you want a NG system (HW+OS):

Cheapest "G2" class systems (new from dealers, with warranty)

OS4
Cheapest Sam440ep kit at Vesalia (incl. OS4): 700 EUR
Cheapest Sam440flex kit at Vesalia (inlc. OS4): 750 EUR

MorphOS
Cheapest Efika system: Efika kit (MB + *the Official* case, incl. PicoPSU) at directron.com: $170 USD + XGI GFX ($40) + 80GB HDD ($50): 175 EUR
MorphOS 2.4 for this: 150 EUR
Sums up to a total of: 325 EUR

Seems like MorphOS+Efika wins the "G2" class price comparison.


Cheapest G4 class systems (second hand only)

OS4
OS4 for Pegasos 2 at Vesalia: 125 EUR
Second hand Pegasos 2 G4 system: 350-450 EUR
Grand total for OS4 and Pegasos2 system: 475-575 EUR

MorphOS
A second hand Mac Mini: 150-250 EUR
MorphOS 2.4 for this: 150 EUR
Sums up to a total of: 300-400 EUR  

Seems like MorphOS+Mac Mini wins the G4 class price comparison.

Two notes about the Sam:

1) Despite its price, it offers a performance level comparable to common PDA's.
2) You can get *two* complete Mac Mini + MorphOS (registered) systems for the price of one Sam+OS4 system, and *each one* of the former will be *so much more* useful!

And this is today.

Soon there will also be MorphOS for PowerMac G4's, pushing the prices down even more (or increasing performance even more, and specs/expandability).
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline zylesea

Re: OS 4 hardware
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2009, 03:59:51 PM »
Quote from: spirantho;532551
I just did quick a good search and came up with this page:
http://www.osnews.com/comments/5493

Check the 5th comment down, labeled " Pricing is VERY high".

Pegasos was in exactly the same boat while it was being made. Also don't forget the Sam440ep comes with the CPU, 1/2GB RAM and a graphics card.

I'm not saying the Pegasos is overpriced, I'm just saying neither are exactly cheap, but for the same reasons.


Well, the PegasosII G3 was 299 EUR. Add about 150-200 for hdd, case, and gfx and RAM ad hou have ended a bit below 500 EUR. About 5 years ago!
Yes, it was not the cheapest computer ever around, but definitely that "new Amiga" with the best price/performance ratio we've seen since the demise of C=.

Offline Framiga

Re: OS 4 hardware
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2009, 04:00:44 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;532581
Sam is low cost? Huh?

OK, let's make a comparison on what you can get today if you want a NG system (HW+OS):

Cheapest "G2" class systems (new from dealers, with warranty)

OS4
Cheapest Sam440ep kit at Vesalia (incl. OS4): 700 EUR
Cheapest Sam440flex kit at Vesalia (inlc. OS4): 750 EUR

MorphOS
Cheapest Efika system: Efika kit (MB + *the Official* case, incl. PicoPSU) at directron.com: $170 USD + XGI GFX ($40) + 80GB HDD ($50): 175 EUR
MorphOS 2.4 for this: 150 EUR
Sums up to a total of: 325 EUR

Seems like MorphOS+Efika wins the "G2" class price comparison.


Cheapest G4 class systems (second hand only)

OS4
OS4 for Pegasos 2 at Vesalia: 125 EUR
Second hand Pegasos 2 G4 system: 350-450 EUR
Grand total for OS4 and Pegasos2 system: 475-575 EUR

MorphOS
A second hand Mac Mini: 150-250 EUR
MorphOS 2.4 for this: 150 EUR
Sums up to a total of: 300-400 EUR  

Seems like MorphOS+Mac Mini wins the G4 class price comparison.

Two notes about the Sam:

1) Despite its price, it offers a performance level comparable to common PDA's.
2) You can get *two* complete Mac Mini + MorphOS (registered) systems for the price of one Sam+OS4 system, and *each one* of the former will be *so much more* useful!

And this is today.

Soon there will also be MorphOS for PowerMac G4's, pushing the prices down even more (or increasing performance even more, and specs/expandability).


LO! you never cease to amaze me! what a clown!

(Moderator Note : *You could have countered. This is a discussion. Refrain from the name calling.*)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 07:15:46 PM by Argo »