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AuthorTopic: Is OS4.1 worthy of the Amiga name?  (Read 7119 times)

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Offline trekiej

Is OS4.1 worthy of the Amiga name?
« on: December 03, 2009, 01:56:52 AM »
I feel like some here do not like OS 4 that much.
Is there anything wrong with OS 4?
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Offline tone007

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Re: Is OS4.1 worthy of the Amiga name?
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2009, 04:05:34 AM »
Only problem is the lack of affordable hardware. As an OS, it's fine.
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Offline Amigamia

Re: Is OS4.1 worthy of the Amiga name?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2009, 04:07:21 AM »
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Offline NovaCoder

Re: Is OS4.1 worthy of the Amiga name?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2009, 06:55:26 AM »
Yes is most ways it is I think.  I see it as a more modern version of the original OS, the problem is that it's being updated so slowly that it's falling further and further behind.  Hopefully things will start to move forward a bit quicker now....
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Offline Everblue

Re: Is OS4.1 worthy of the Amiga name?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2009, 07:01:14 AM »
Amiga OS4.1 is an official, modern version of the classic workbench. MorphOS is the same, except its not really official. So if I had to choose on an equal stand, I'd get OS4.1 - unfortunately Sam440 are way underpowered and too expensive, especially by today's standards, on the other hand MorphOS will work on a PowerMac which you can get next to nothing.
 

Offline countzero

Re: Is OS4.1 worthy of the Amiga name?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2009, 07:29:03 AM »
Quote from: Amigamia;532342
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Offline takemehomegrandma

Re: Is OS4.1 worthy of the Amiga name?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2009, 09:16:28 AM »
@trekiej

IMHO it's more about individual personal opinions about the various options, than "something wrong with...".

Quote from: NovaCoder;532353
I see it as a more modern version of the original OS, the problem is that it's being updated so slowly that it's falling further and further behind.


There are *two* "more modern versions of the original OS", well three if you include AROS, but I really don't, because that one is more of the experimental kind IMHO.

So if you are to choose one of the two new OS options, I think it would be fair to compare them in four key areas before making your choice:

1) Level of compatibility to the original OS.
2) Performance
3) Features
4) HW options, including "bang for the buck" ratio

Take this "blind test" to see which one (option 1, or option 2) you would prefer:

1) In the first OS of the two, Amiga compatibility has been a top priority since day one. In the second, it hasn't.

2) The first of the two is faster than the second one, running on exactly the same HW.

3) The first of the two has more, better and more modern features in important areas than the second one, as well as most of the Amiga "3rd party standards" (CGX, Poseidon USB, MUI4, TurboPrint, etc) *integrated* into the OS.

4) The first one runs on a much wider selection of (second hand) HW, including very cheap yet powerful Mac G4 computers, offering performance levels previously completely unseen in an Amiga context. The second one completely lacks the option of similarly affordable and powerful HW, but runs on new (with warranty), expensive, low-power HW, on which it hasn't come out of "beta state" since over a year (for unknown reasons).

OK, let's throw in a fifth "key area" as well:

5) The first one does not have a red/white checkered ball as a logotype (but a blue butterfly), while the second one does. The first one isn't called "AmigaOS4" (but MorphOS), while the second one is.

So, time to sum up your answers, and look at the result:

If you would prefer option 1 in a majority of the above statements, you would rationally go for MorphOS.
If you would prefer option 2 in a majority of the above statements, you would rationally go for OS4.

So, "Is there anything wrong with OS 4?"

Not really. It's simply one more option you could choose between, if you want a NG *miga OS environment. You *could* ask: "Is there something better than OS4 out there?", and then I would say yes, definitely.

You also asked: "Is OS4.1 worthy of the Amiga name?"

Perhaps you could determine "worthiness" based upon the above areas of comparison? I don't know, but "worthiness" is a moot point here anyway; it looks like Hyperion has been granted the right to use the Amiga name for their OS in a settlement ending the long battle they had with the Amiga IP owner. Worthy or not, they have it. But does it matter? For me, not the slightest. I mentally dropped that "fifth key area of comparison" above the minute I went for MorphOS. But for *some* people, that "fifth key area of comparison" is the *only* thing that matters when they make their choice. Funny that...
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Offline spirantho

Re: Is OS4.1 worthy of the Amiga name?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2009, 10:13:52 AM »
Nice to see people are still giving unbiased answers to people's questions...

OS 4 is usually hit on by:
a) People who are MorphOS fanboys (if you look really carefully you may just spot on or two in this forum, nay even in this thread!)
b) People who believe anything using AmigaOS has to have a custom chipset underneath it.
c) People who believe the hardware is too expensive and therefore the software must be no good.

Generally, people who have actually tried it have been very impressed by it. I can't talk for MorphOS as I've not tried it, and it wasn't even in the original question anyway! But what I can say is that AmigaOS 4 is definitely worthy of the Amiga name because it isAmigaOS. When AmigaOS 1.3 evolved into 2.04 it broke things, but it was still AmigaOS. When it went to AmigaOS 3.0 it broke other things, but no-one would say that it wasn't AmigaOS. AmigaOS 4.0 had to not only move to a completely new architecture to survive, but it also had to have various new elements added to keep up with peoples demands these days, and these things always come at a cost. Ask Apple, they know all about advancements at the cost of compatibility (remember, Apple's method with OS X was to throw an entire OS 9 installation at any program that didn't play nicely with OS X!).

Don't take my word for it, try it for yourself, and draw your own conclusions, because there's a lot of fanboys out there with no objective opinion. Personally, I think the fact that I've been using (and coding for) Amigas since 1989 and find AmigaOS 4 to be quite incredible speaks for itself - I have 3 OS 4 systems, an A4000, an A1XE (G4) and a Sam 440ep - and I've not looked back.
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Offline bernd_afa

Re: Is OS4.1 worthy of the Amiga name?
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2009, 10:25:02 AM »
Maybe you make a poll, and ask the Question.

Do you think the OS4 devs are able to make a attractive AOS for not Amiga Fan Users ?

Yes or no.

I say no because when see for example this, there is no update and bugfix since long long time.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=30162&forum=14&23#523401

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=29569&forum=14&106

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=29561&forum=33&34

I see no excuse not enough money or so, because i am sure, every developers get with the same money, support of users/devs that support this much much better results.

and for this we need 2 PPC AOS solutions and red versus blue war, i dont understand.ok, if devs like OS4 good, but there should be working together possible because nobody can assume that many live with such OS4 limitation and update/bugfix slowness.

also can compare what that MOS/AROS devs do, they have not such problems.Or does this too happen on MOS and MAC Mini ?

we see that Hyperion develop very very slow SAM over 1 year now beta, was not able to build a good slab allocator, that reach speed of other slab allocator, and are not able that OS4 show correct used and free memory.
Thats a thing all OS can do, and there is no excuse that OS4 is something special.

I cant understand wy develop a driver need so much time, there need only look how the driver in Linux work.

Problem of course is that OS4 is closed source, so just modify the Linux driver and use is illegal.

But when there are devs that do a closed source AOS they should be able to do a working driver too soon, i dont want pay much money when they are slow and need much time to develop and make stable this.

Special on Amiga is only that there are some Fans that like OS4 so much and pay money because they think its last hope.

I think on otrher market if Hyperion develop a Slabv allocator with that features and speed it have on OS4, the Hyperion guys get fired.

If AOS is opensource, then a Linux opensource Slab allocator can use that is fast and show correct used memory.

So if the money does not flow to developers that reach better results with the given money, i think its impossible that amiga market can grow and go attractive for more users and especial devs that write more apps and need less bounty.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 10:31:05 AM by bernd_afa »
 

Offline smf

Re: Is OS4.1 worthy of the Amiga name?
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2009, 10:40:06 AM »
@trekiej

Well there is something wrong with OS4.
It's very outdated and lacks features. just like all the other Amigaos'es and wannbes.

But if you like the classic AmigaOS like i do. then OS4 is great and the only true successor to the classic amigaos.  
Unfortunately some people has a sick need to hit on it whenever they can mostly just to promote some other unnecessary solution that sucks just as hard as OS4.
 

Offline Everblue

Re: Is OS4.1 worthy of the Amiga name?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2009, 10:53:01 AM »
@spirantho

Just because a complete Sam440 is too expensive for me for a hobby computer, it doesn't make me a 'fanboy'. If OS4.1 was out for PowerMac, I wouldn't care for MorphOS, but considering that I do not have 800-900 euro to spend and MorphOS will run on a cheap G4, then by all means I will go for the second best option. Money may not be a problem for you, but for me it is.
 

Offline Fingers

Re: Is OS4.1 worthy of the Amiga name?
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2009, 11:07:45 AM »
Agreed with the above...using MorphOS to type this right now on my G4 Mini...if 4.1 was available for this machine I'd probably be using it instead.

SAM costs are beyond my financial scope, let alone PPC expansions for A1200, Pegasos, etc...

PZ.

p.s. For what it is, I'm quite happy with MOS & it's rapid development :)
 

Offline DyLucke

Re: Is OS4.1 worthy of the Amiga name?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2009, 11:08:51 AM »
I think both systems are reasonably good, despite they have differences. However i do choose MorphOS, for a handful of simple questions.

Hardware supporting MOS is faster.
Hardware supporting MOS is cheaper.
People developing soft for MOS seems to be more serious... (but this is a particular thought)

However on the other hand it seems there are more movement on the OS4 side about, programs and stuff... But the number of Sam's sold is really really low. About if OS4.1 is worth of the Amiga name, i would say a "why not?" On the other hand after the wise move of MOS supporting mac hardware, i bet we will see more programmers and new stuff to come... And grow in number much more than OS4 stuff...
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 11:12:22 AM by DyLucke »
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Offline ck1200

Re: Is OS4.1 worthy of the Amiga name?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2009, 11:13:26 AM »
Quote from: Nostromo;532354
Amiga OS4.1 is an official, modern version of the classic workbench. MorphOS is the same, except its not really official. So if I had to choose on an equal stand, I'd get OS4.1 - unfortunately Sam440 are way underpowered and too expensive, especially by today's standards, on the other hand MorphOS will work on a PowerMac which you can get next to nothing.

Agreed :D
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Offline bernd_afa

Re: Is OS4.1 worthy of the Amiga name?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2009, 11:13:33 AM »
>But if you like the classic AmigaOS like i do. then OS4 is great and the only true >successor to the classic amigaos.

And wy is only OS4 the true sucessor and not MOS or maybe AROS if you want native Hardware ?