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AuthorTopic: Amiga in Your very cellphone  (Read 4406 times)

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Offline stefcep2

Re: Amiga in Your very cellphone
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2009, 09:22:54 PM »
Just read the first post.  Nice discussion about the different OS's on mobile phones (thats what they're called in the rest of the world) BUT:  What Amiga exclusive games ( can't see any worthy apps to port so i assume its games you want) are there that would be worth all the work getting the custom chips emulated on a phone.  I think a megadrive or SNES emulator is more likely
 

Offline DiskDoctor

Re: Amiga in Your very cellphone
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2009, 09:32:28 PM »
Quote

stefcep2 wrote:
Just read the first post.  Nice discussion about the different OS's on mobile phones (thats what they're called in the rest of the world) BUT:  What Amiga exclusive games ( can't see any worthy apps to port so i assume its games you want) are there that would be worth all the work getting the custom chips emulated on a phone.  I think a megadrive or SNES emulator is more likely


That's an alternative you say.  An alternative, that's all.  SNES was also 16bit right? I got NES and it was rather a C64 alike...

A notion here would be that most stunning arcade games (music, graphic, playability, feel, climate, etc.) were those of Amiga.  No other.  Depends on the scene's size, and on the cult level, too. I think only the Amiga people have so much guts to talk about it at all.

A linguistic remark - I used cellphone term because some time ago in my life I was faced to the choice which flag should I pick to further learn English.  The pity is I forgot there's one more down below... :-(
Was: Mac Mini PPC running MorphOS 2.4
Now: Amiga Forever 2010 with AmiKit and AmigaSYS
Not used: Icaros Desktop 1.2 (reason: no wifi)
Planned soon: an OS4 system
Shortly then: a MOS notebook (wifi is a must-have)
 

Offline persia

Re: Amiga in Your very cellphone
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2009, 10:01:52 PM »
I think UAE does have a decent chance of getting Amiga enthusiasts to use it on their phones.  Anyone else, forget about it.  But really who cares about anyone else?  We're a small group of people who want to have a foot in the '80s, what's wrong with that?  Does every iPhone or WM app have to sell 100,000 copies?  

Why can't we just enjoy Amiga without worrying about some prophesied second coming?
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What we\'re witnessing is the sad, lonely crowing of that last, doomed cock.
 

Offline DiskDoctor

Re: Amiga in Your very cellphone
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2009, 10:15:27 PM »
Quote

persia wrote:
I think UAE does have a decent chance of getting Amiga enthusiasts to use it on their phones.  Anyone else, forget about it.  But really who cares about anyone else?  We're a small group of people who want to have a foot in the '80s, what's wrong with that?  Does every iPhone or WM app have to sell 100,000 copies?  


Well, if you want to achieve something, $$ plays always major role in it.  What I meant about Amiga mobile marketing or encouraging people is a simple use of teeny players, that maybe would tell their older brothers or sisters or else, they just got a great Amiga game on their phone (not necessarily knowing what this all Amiga is all about).  Not too many people would they get back to Amiga OS, but a guy pointed out here... 6000 of geeks (what about amigaworld.net??)... say, what about doubling it? if figures are 100 000 in fact, this is roughly possible.  Those all people would be happy really... As I am after these boring years.

Money would boost the whole idea, besides profits to the maker.

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Why can't we just enjoy Amiga without worrying about some prophesied second coming?


We do, I do, why quit the idea that is simply extending this?
Was: Mac Mini PPC running MorphOS 2.4
Now: Amiga Forever 2010 with AmiKit and AmigaSYS
Not used: Icaros Desktop 1.2 (reason: no wifi)
Planned soon: an OS4 system
Shortly then: a MOS notebook (wifi is a must-have)
 

Offline stefcep2

Re: Amiga in Your very cellphone
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2009, 11:01:36 PM »
I have a SNES, yes its 16 bit.  The NES is 8 bit like C64.  Whilst it may be cool for the 'because I can" factor, I can't see what Amiga exclusives make the effort worthwhile.  Most games on the Amiga are available on the SNES and honestly the in game graphics are only marginally better on Amiga.  And the SNES has some of the best games in gaming history. In any case i think copyright might be problem for running games ROMS , which is why Apple doesn't allow emulators on the iPhone
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Amiga in Your very cellphone
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2009, 12:14:00 AM »
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DiskDoctor wrote:
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bloodline wrote:

A few years ago only geeks had Mobile devices... Geeks are prepared to mess around with Emulators... Now the common person has mobile devices... common People don't want emulators, don't care about some old game they never played before, that  they won't have.. You can't sell Amiga games or Amiga ROMs...

The market for UAE on mobile devices is smaller now than it was years ago.


No way! If you market stuff properly, mobile people would buy it without giving it a think. I can see how many mobile crap games are being sold in this very second! I see everywhere on a TV five-second ads about Premium texting for 5$ to get a silly James Bond recent game. People drink a beer or two and... have fun or excitement for 5$... no matter all they get is a crap... what matters is the futuristic way they got it...


Hang on!! All you are selling is the Emulator...
The people who buy this Emulator then have to buy an Amiga ROM... and then have to search Ebay to find a copy of some game they probably don't know about (if you are under 25 you will have NO idea what an Amiga is...)... And then they need an Amiga to rip the Amiga Floppy Game to an ADF... then they have to upload the ADF to the device... then they have to configure the Emulator...

You expect the average user to waste time with that when... for example... I can spend two minutes on the App store on my iPhone find a brand new totally innovative game for £1.99 download and install it immediately... then play it...

You have to wake up here!!!

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I really worked for two years in mobile industry and know how many pieces of particular mobile software sold daily needs to yield positive ROI... People WASTE money on mobile, because mobile operators told them VAS is what they want and they did it well.


Don't be stupid, people don't waste money... they might make stupid purchasing decisions, but someone needs to spend serious marketing dollars to get them to do it!

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mUAE if proprietary hopefully, will have guts to get through the whole marketing machine and eventually reach figures.  I see no much distinction between mUAE and any other mobile arcades, I thought it was already said here clearly enough...


mUAE will have no software... be difficult to set up and use... and the controls won't be suited to a mobile platform in anyway...

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Amiga as a brand is dead, it is worthless. No one will pay what McEwen wants for it.


I don't. But if the guy lets it go, who knows who will eventually pick it next...  We're getting older :-) and richer :-) :-) If I had 10M$ now I would spend all on this Amiga reanimation, believe me.  On the other hand things like this make me keep on tryin'


It would be your money to waste, and good luck to you! But even if I had $100M I wouldn't waste it on the defunct brand. I would push money into a 68k version of AROS, and then include it with UAE for the community.

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Quote


Java is 14 years old, and was NEVER meant for fridges.



Maybe an urban legend what I said but it was, indeed, targeted to a set-top
boxes... Maybe the thing before Java name...  I can recall I heard the story during my studies...  What an asshole the lecturer guy!


To be honest it doesn't matter, Java is something totally different to the point you were getting at.

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You can't live in a bubble... face facts and enjoy what the Amiga means to us! Forget about forcing Amiga down the throats of people who don't care and don't want it!


Hope is never insanity.


Hope without reason is insanity.

Offline warpdesign

Re: Amiga in Your very cellphone
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2009, 01:47:44 AM »
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Amiga emulation, easily available to anyone of the millions of mobile gamers, would attract the people towards different OS which is AOS4.

There's no way Amiga emulation would bring users to OS4.
Amiga emulation as you think about it (I guess at least) is all about games. What the bridge between 99% of amiga games (which simply kill the OS to run) and OS4 ? Tell me...

Not to mention that to have this emulation available to millions of users you should (or someone) have a licence for the OS and/or games... Well, if I was at the head of Amiga Inc. I would have released kick 1.x for free, but I don't see current owners doing so. I don't see them doing anything either. And I'm not sure they own the right to the kickstart anyway.

Oh, and I forgot: what about controls ? How do you control joystick based games with your fingers (in case of the iPhone & other touch phones) or keypad (in case of normal phone).

Oh, and one last thing: if you exclude powerfull smartphones (iphone, blackberry like, powerfull nokias,...), I'm sure most current mobile phones haven't got the raw power to emulate an Amiga. And I say raw power: this is ignoring the fact that most applications are JAVA based on mobile phones.

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I know, I'm evangelizing newer platform here but what I think is... I want my phone to play classic Amiga games, and I want my next desktop to be OS4. That way out.

You want to play classic games in your phone ? Then buy an iPhone, and play pinball dreams, payback, etc... (I'm sure a lot more will be coming in the near future)

You want to do something, think better, and get real !

Some of your dreams can't come true in this world ;)
 

Offline DiskDoctor

Re: Amiga in Your very cellphone
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2009, 08:48:57 AM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:

Hang on!! All you are selling is the Emulator...
The people who buy this Emulator then have to buy an Amiga ROM... and then have to search Ebay to find a copy of some game they probably don't know about (if you are under 25 you will have NO idea what an Amiga is...)... And then they need an Amiga to rip the Amiga Floppy Game to an ADF... then they have to upload the ADF to the device... then they have to configure the Emulator...


If it is about sales, I didn't say this business plan would be easy, in fact it's extremely complicated!  So another way, maybe there's just a need for free PocketUAE up-to-date only?

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Quote

Hope is never insanity.

Hope without reason is insanity.


Idea is always a reason, not necessarily reasonable...
Besides, just been talking, that's all...

Quote

warpdesign wrote:

There's no way Amiga emulation would bring users to OS4.
Amiga emulation as you think about it (I guess at least) is all about games. What the bridge between 99% of amiga games (which simply kill the OS to run) and OS4 ? Tell me...


Actually the only bridge is a brand name, you're absolutely right those instances are in fact opposed to each other...

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Oh, and I forgot: what about controls ? How do you control joystick based games with your fingers (in case of the iPhone & other touch phones) or keypad (in case of normal phone).


I mentioned controls already a few times here.  Many cells have joysticks, Nokias, SEs etc. above the regular/qwerty keypad.  Take a look.  Joystick/joypad/whatever is everything needed here.  Touch UI smartphones need reengineering, though.  But think of Lemmings for example.

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Oh, and one last thing: if you exclude powerfull smartphones (iphone, blackberry like, powerfull nokias,...), I'm sure most current mobile phones haven't got the raw power to emulate an Amiga. And I say raw power: this is ignoring the fact that most applications are JAVA based on mobile phones.


I do not exclude smartphones, I exclude everything else.  To make ANY (forgot about capitals) I mean - any sense of releasing something non-trivial for mobile, one has to focus on open operating systems only.  There are many people that wanted to make a product working on every phone, now in institutions...


EDIT* I wasn't ever thinking of JAVA.  I proposed smartphones because of their open operating systems, which is in fact a branded, direct, open and standarized API.

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You want to play classic games in your phone ? Then buy an iPhone, and play pinball dreams, payback, etc... (I'm sure a lot more will be coming in the near future)


Yeah, you all, again, dissuade me from considering the whole thing, I guess it's a good piece of advice to get all available games for mobile for a start :-)

I will! Have two mobile platforms already - Symbian s60 plus WM6 Smart.
Besides, If I finish my research, I'll try to post it here in gaming section.  That's something added, tiny though.
Was: Mac Mini PPC running MorphOS 2.4
Now: Amiga Forever 2010 with AmiKit and AmigaSYS
Not used: Icaros Desktop 1.2 (reason: no wifi)
Planned soon: an OS4 system
Shortly then: a MOS notebook (wifi is a must-have)
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Amiga in Your very cellphone
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2009, 09:34:05 AM »
Quote

DiskDoctor wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:

Hang on!! All you are selling is the Emulator...
The people who buy this Emulator then have to buy an Amiga ROM... and then have to search Ebay to find a copy of some game they probably don't know about (if you are under 25 you will have NO idea what an Amiga is...)... And then they need an Amiga to rip the Amiga Floppy Game to an ADF... then they have to upload the ADF to the device... then they have to configure the Emulator...


If it is about sales, I didn't say this business plan would be easy, in fact it's extremely complicated!  So another way, maybe there's just a need for free PocketUAE up-to-date only?



Sure, PocketUAE was little more than the SDL target, built for the WinMobile platform... with some work to map the controls to the device...

Honestly, if there really was any interest, don't you think someone would bother keeping it updated? I used it, I thought it was quite fun... but it is VERY CPU intensive and kills the battery... The time spent trying to get UAE to work would be better spent porting or cloning your favorite Amiga game to your Mobile device...

My personal thought are about taking the OpenSource MegaLoMania clone to the iPhone... But I would have to either buy the rights to the GFX/Audio or (perhaps better) remake them...

Link:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.harman/comp_mlm.html

Offline Hammer

Re: Amiga in Your very cellphone
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2009, 09:52:29 AM »
Quote

Pyromania wrote:
@DiskDoctor

Nice post except for the Windows Mobile part. Win Mobile is almost already dead and it would be a waste to put any resources there. Amiga Forever could have features added to the next version to support Amiga emulation on cell phones if it's developer is interested in going that route.

Factor in MS Visual Studio .NET tool chain.
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Offline DiskDoctor

Re: Amiga in Your very cellphone
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2009, 05:02:54 PM »
I dug in the web for a while.

There's a source (GNU I guess) available for PocketUAE, though outdated more that an already outdated most recent binary.

I am not as much experienced in this area so ask you for help here.  What am I supposed to have to build WM5/WM6 binary out of it??  Is this like:
- having Visual Studio. NET
- having Windows Mobile SDK
- choosing the target platform
- building from the source
- ... now goes the most tricky part - fixing all build errors :-)

Is that right? I ask any NET programmers here, please help.

Besides myUAE for Palm I mentioned already, I found yet another - PalmUAE. Check out nice pictures!  First one is due to work on PalmOS five, another one - my guess - PalmOS4 or 5.

Can/did anyone equipped with appropriate Palm check if this works??
Was: Mac Mini PPC running MorphOS 2.4
Now: Amiga Forever 2010 with AmiKit and AmigaSYS
Not used: Icaros Desktop 1.2 (reason: no wifi)
Planned soon: an OS4 system
Shortly then: a MOS notebook (wifi is a must-have)
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Amiga in Your very cellphone
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2009, 08:51:09 PM »
@Diskdoctor

Fine, let's say you restore the PocketUAE build.... How do you get past the fact that UAE will easily consume a mobile battery in about 15min... Probably less on on iPhone (a notorious battery hog)... No one loves a game so much that they will sacrifice their device to less than half an hour's gaming...

Both the iPhone and PSP get many hours of hardcore high frame rate 3D native gameplay before killing the battery!!!

Offline DiskDoctor

Re: Amiga in Your very cellphone
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2009, 09:50:00 PM »
@ bloodline:

I disagree. I do not believe that yet another smartphone application not using any radio will kill the battery.  Batteries are more resistant those days.

My Windows Mobile cell lives for three days.  It is simply not possible to me that UAE would dry it out in an hour... Sometimes I play games and the phone still works for some time.  This standby/active factor is not as demonic as you say.
Was: Mac Mini PPC running MorphOS 2.4
Now: Amiga Forever 2010 with AmiKit and AmigaSYS
Not used: Icaros Desktop 1.2 (reason: no wifi)
Planned soon: an OS4 system
Shortly then: a MOS notebook (wifi is a must-have)
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Amiga in Your very cellphone
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2009, 10:11:03 PM »
Quote

DiskDoctor wrote:
@ bloodline:

I disagree. I do not believe that yet another smartphone application not using any radio will kill the battery.  Batteries are more resistant those days.

My Windows Mobile cell lives for three days.  It is simply not possible to me that UAE would dry it out in an hour... Sometimes I play games and the phone still works for some time.  This standby/active factor is not as demonic as you say.


:lol: Build PocketUAE for your Smartphone... My old iPAQ had a 1500mAH, and a 450Mhz CPU... PocketUAE is a very CPU intensive app... it easily took the battery from full to empty in little under 20min...

My iPhone has a 1500mAH battery and a 412MHz CPU... if I run a CPU intensive app, I'm lucky to get an hour...

You clearly have no idea how Emulators work, you admit to never having used PocketUAE... And yet you still believe they your idea has merit... it doesn't. Now focus on something realistic!!!

Offline DiskDoctor

Re: Amiga in Your very cellphone
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2009, 10:54:41 PM »
@ bloodline:

Yeah, maybe I am not an expert here, but not a newbie either.  Emulators is just another virtual layer on top of the system, that's all I need to now here.  I know some apps are of high voltage consumption.  What you say makes me think all mobile phones / palmtops are mostly made to rest, should any usage happens, they run out of batteries in several minutes.

If I do not know it, this is because I heavily used my all Palmtops, normal (J2ME) cell phones, stuff equipped with Symbian or windows mobile.  I never had such a problem some sustained action causes killing the battery.

But as I said, I am not familiar with mobile emulation (not too many people are there either).  It is simply hard to believe, If I did it and saw it before my very eyes, that would shock me and in turn convince. Fine, thanks for the advice I should not bother.

Alas, how can you explain this
1) three emulators (at least) were made already for mobile devices to imitate Amiga
2) someone must have been using this for real
3) there are many other mobile emulations, except for the Amiga.

Needn't to bother to reply this, all I wanted to point here is my rationale which makes me hard to justify and face the facts you're quoting. I had absolutely NO experience on mobile emulation but used any sorts of emulation on a PC or Mac.  Since those desktop systems are nowadays much better than those of smartphones (incomparable wouldn't be an answer anymore), what you say means both Symbian /WM systems are not as smart as they look (which I am aware of).
Was: Mac Mini PPC running MorphOS 2.4
Now: Amiga Forever 2010 with AmiKit and AmigaSYS
Not used: Icaros Desktop 1.2 (reason: no wifi)
Planned soon: an OS4 system
Shortly then: a MOS notebook (wifi is a must-have)