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AuthorTopic: Amiga emulators: is it worth it?  (Read 4257 times)

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Offline DiskDoctor

Amiga emulators: is it worth it?
« on: January 18, 2009, 02:57:56 PM »

Hello,

Did any of you made ANY of the available Amiga (OCS) emulators working?  I mean thorougly.
I ask because I didn't manage to, using WinUAE, E-UAE, MaxUAE, and others (both Windows and Mac OS).

Also, some time ago I encountered some post on some other forum stating that "no one has ever managed to re-create the original chipset as a Virtual Machine because it was SO PERFECT it is hardly possible if ever."

My problem is EVERY time I managed to set up the proper configurations, e.g. games (it's all about games) were playable but the music was getting stalled every time on rapid pseudo processor's usage.

Classic Amiga music is crucial to me, something one might not accept unfidel.

Or maybe it is my fault because of not optimizing configuration set-up properly?

Please let me know.
It is (PC emulation) my only source of Amiga breeze for the time being...

One more thing, I just learned that running classic amiga files on sam440 requires some emulator, too.  What's my guarantee it is gonna work, for a change?
Was: Mac Mini PPC running MorphOS 2.4
Now: Amiga Forever 2010 with AmiKit and AmigaSYS
Not used: Icaros Desktop 1.2 (reason: no wifi)
Planned soon: an OS4 system
Shortly then: a MOS notebook (wifi is a must-have)
 

Offline AmiKit

Re: Amiga emulators: is it worth it?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2009, 03:07:39 PM »
The Amiga emulation that is provided by WinUAE is 100% for most of the Amiga games out there (and 99% for the rest).

I think your inquiry is too general. Either post a detailed problem you are experiencing with certain game or follow some guides first:

http://www.pcguru.plus.com/uae_faq.html
http://www.tweakguides.com/Amiga_1.html
http://ale.emuunlim.com/guides/guides.shtml

Offline persia

Re: Amiga emulators: is it worth it?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2009, 03:38:43 PM »
The various versions of UAE are almost technically perfect.  That's what some complain about, 80's computer was clunky and a bit unstable, running an Amiga has always been a bit like building your own ultra lite aircraft, you were exposed to the environment and never knew when you would experience a crash.  UAE provides a safe, clean, smooth environment that just doesn't feel the same.  You use your modern beautiful monitors and somehow all the imperfections that were hidden by trashy old CRTs are visible on your 1080p monitor.

Real Amigas are always on the edge of disaster, with cobbled together parts that were never meant to work together.  They click, they pop, they wheeze.  Experiencing an Amiga through the clean safety of a modern OS is somehow almost cheating.


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Offline amiga_3k

Re: Amiga emulators: is it worth it?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2009, 04:32:08 PM »
I think success of emulation can't be guaranteed. One say it's perfect, the other says it sucks. I'm not too impressed with emulation. Tried WinUAE (always the newest versions) on a variety of PC hardware (Duron 750, Duron 1300, Pentium IV 2000 GHz, Pentium IV 2.4 GHz, Xeon 2.8 GHz) and always ended up somewhat down. While some games work rather well, using software like OctaMED really doesn't do the experience any good. The time between pressing a key and actually hearing the sample seems to be hours where as I can't recall such behaviour back in the A500 or A3000 era (note, the A3000 was at first just a 16 MHz 030).

Probably it's just me experiencing this behaviour, that's why I've asked a few times if this is also true on the MiniMig.
[img align=left]http://www.elf8.nl/AMIGA_BANNER_2.gif[/img]Get a SAM, while you can! The new AMIGA is here!
 

Offline Darrin

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Re: Amiga emulators: is it worth it?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2009, 05:06:38 PM »
As someone who has used WinUAE for years and bought several Amiga Forever packages I can honestly say that if you want to play games and "feel" as if you're using a real Amiga (and AGA isn't an issue) then the Minimig is the only solution.

WinUAE certainly works, but the look and feel is missing.  When it comes to using digital joysticks then the frustration factor just grows.

With the Minimig (once you've set up your core and PIC) it may as well be a real Amiga.  You switch on, you see the "insert floppy" logo as per your Kickstart version and you insert your "disk" (ADF).  I also love the way I can keep both of my digital joysticks attached thanks to the PS2 mouse.

Who want's to go through the ball-ache of waiting for your PC's OS to load, runing UAE, selecting the configuration, etc when you can just switch on your Minimig?

With Hard File support already working on the prototype ARM board, it will so be available to the masses and I'm ready to solder on my RAM expansion too.
A2000, A3000, 2 x A1200T, A1200, A4000Tower & Mediator, CD32, VIC-20, C64, C128, C128D, PET 8032, Minimig & ARM, C-One, FPGA Arcade... and AmigaOne X1000.
 

Offline Zac67

Re: Amiga emulators: is it worth it?
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2009, 05:10:29 PM »
Quote
(note, the A3000 was at first just a 16 MHz 030).

The 16 and 25 MHz versions of the A3k were released simultaneously, so neither is older.
 

Offline DiskDoctor

Re: Amiga emulators: is it worth it?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2009, 05:44:49 PM »
Quote
the Minimig is the only solution


Yes that's probably the best solution for those wanting to play on a "brand new Amiga 500" environment.

But my case is I'd like both play and use OS4 as my prime desktop environment.

I'm considering SAM with OS4/4.1 and want to use it for playing ancient games (I never managed to get myself interested in any PC game since, maybe there's one exception), also I want to use the web browser, some multimedia features but also some office (word processor MS Word-compatible?) and so.

Actually when considering 1000$ purchase (my local reseller's price), I want something more than just games (Minimig is much cheaper, though)... I want it all!  Or maybe just all that's available, with fewest compromises possible.

I still wonder why OS4 developers didn't simply wrap the classic 1.3 Kickstart as a built-in Virtual Machine.  Apple did it since switching to OS X and the solution is perfect!  Instead, when I want to use Sam I'm forced to go, again, into some software emulation I never trusted.
Was: Mac Mini PPC running MorphOS 2.4
Now: Amiga Forever 2010 with AmiKit and AmigaSYS
Not used: Icaros Desktop 1.2 (reason: no wifi)
Planned soon: an OS4 system
Shortly then: a MOS notebook (wifi is a must-have)
 

Offline Darrin

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Re: Amiga emulators: is it worth it?
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2009, 06:08:29 PM »
Quote

DiskDoctor wrote:
Quote
the Minimig is the only solution


Yes that's probably the best solution for those wanting to play on a "brand new Amiga 500" environment.

But my case is I'd like both play and use OS4 as my prime desktop environment.

I'm considering SAM with OS4/4.1 and want to use it for playing ancient games (I never managed to get myself interested in any PC game since, maybe there's one exception), also I want to use the web browser, some multimedia features but also some office (word processor MS Word-compatible?) and so.

Actually when considering 1000$ purchase (my local reseller's price), I want something more than just games (Minimig is much cheaper, though)... I want it all!  Or maybe just all that's available, with fewest compromises possible.

I still wonder why OS4 developers didn't simply wrap the classic 1.3 Kickstart as a built-in Virtual Machine.  Apple did it since switching to OS X and the solution is perfect!  Instead, when I want to use Sam I'm forced to go, again, into some software emulation I never trusted.


I understand.  I'm toying with the whole Sam(flex)/OS4.1 idea, but I'm still faced with teh fact that everything I currently want to do I can do either on my Minimig or expanded A4000.

An entire "virtual A500/A1200" in OS4.x would be ideal.  I'm sure it's on the list of thinsg to do.  :-)
A2000, A3000, 2 x A1200T, A1200, A4000Tower & Mediator, CD32, VIC-20, C64, C128, C128D, PET 8032, Minimig & ARM, C-One, FPGA Arcade... and AmigaOne X1000.
 

Offline amiga_3k

Re: Amiga emulators: is it worth it?
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2009, 08:29:48 PM »
Quote

Zac67 wrote:
Quote
(note, the A3000 was at first just a 16 MHz 030).

The 16 and 25 MHz versions of the A3k were released simultaneously, so neither is older.


I know. What I meant is, that when I bought it it only had the 16 MHz 030, later on I upgraded it with the 25 MHz 040. :-)

[img align=left]http://www.elf8.nl/AMIGA_BANNER_3.gif[/img]
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Offline Tenacious

Re: Amiga emulators: is it worth it?
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2009, 09:36:03 PM »
@ Persia

There are many here who have used classic Amigas continuously sinse the beginning.  
 

Offline mikrucio

Re: Amiga emulators: is it worth it?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2009, 02:54:02 AM »
WINUAE is hardly safe and clean. very fiddely even the latest build, not to mention some severe bugs aswell..
yeah it works, but it makes me sick at times.
 

Offline spirantho

Re: Amiga emulators: is it worth it?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2009, 09:44:29 AM »
WinUAE is a very very good emulation. However, it's still an emulation.

The problem with emulating a computer is that there will always be latency. Usually this is most visible in sound. This is because on the Amiga the sound output is wired straight from the sound chip to the audio out. On the virtual machine, the sound goes into the sound buffer which is constantly playing out of the audio socket, but it must always go out of a buffer, as this is how sound cards work. The larger the buffer the smoother the sound, but the higher the latency.

You'll never get the complete Amiga look and feel via emulation, no matter how good UAE is.

Get a SAM 440 but get an A500 or A1200 too for old games! They're hardly expensive... (compared to the Sam!)
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Offline AmiKit

Re: Amiga emulators: is it worth it?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2009, 10:13:35 AM »
Quote
The problem with emulating a computer is that there will always be latency. Usually this is most visible in sound.

I don't think so. Even if there was any latency I doubt any human can notice it.

Quote
You'll never get the complete Amiga look and feel via emulation, no matter how good UAE is.

Well, a simple Turing test denies your statement. http://www.amigaforever.com/tutorials/goodorbad/

Offline bloodline

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Re: Amiga emulators: is it worth it?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2009, 11:03:37 AM »
Running WinUAE on a modern PC is now for me, perfect... It is more compatible than my real Amigas... That is to say, I only need one WinUAE, when I would need to use several different models of real Amiga, and I can also build any config I need.

My real Amigas are now museum exhibits... Preserved to show my grandchildren... But as I have mentioned before, display technology is moving on and it won't be long before I have no way to get Video Output from an Amiga that is compatible with any display device...
Even my last VGA monitor is due to be dumped in 4 months... Then I will be DVI only...  

Offline StormLord

Re: Amiga emulators: is it worth it?
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2009, 11:27:56 AM »
I had configured UAE and winUAE on many machines from day one till now.
its a surprising experience to see how a heavily upgraded amiga works.
But emulation is always emulation, especially when trying to emulate DMA and synced chipsets on non DMA-asynchronous buffered chips. the sound latency is there, and even thought its hardly noticeable on games with appropriate config file, its still there..
try protracker or octamed and you will have a nerve breakdown!
From the other side you have a fast amiga with graphics and even sound card to play with.
JIT really make all things fly, but again, in some tasks, UAE is 20x faster and in some others is 10x slower, and that difference don't allow you to really feel as you are using a real amiga.
Ofcourse with proper configuration you can minimize that, but it never become perfect.