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AuthorTopic: What's the difference between Algor and Deneb?  (Read 1524 times)

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Offline ZyBeR

What's the difference between Algor and Deneb?
« on: August 26, 2008, 08:38:32 AM »
What's the real difference between Algor Pro and Deneb USB cards?
I have a Algor Pro in my A4000T today and was thinking if I would have any benefits of upgrading?
 

Offline keropi

Re: What's the difference between Algor and Deneb?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2008, 08:46:40 AM »
AlgorPRO: USB1 speeds + 1MB Flashrom
DENEB: USB2 speeds + 4MB flashrom

check full DENEB specs over at amigakit.com HERE

Offline mboehmer_e3b

Re: What's the difference between Algor and Deneb?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2008, 09:52:35 AM »
Quote

What's the real difference between Algor Pro and Deneb USB cards?


The DENEB supports USB2.0 with real HighSpeed, operates on Zorro II, Zorro III and Fast-Zorro II busses, adds 4MB FlashROM and allows Zorro III DMA operation to reduce CPU load significantly.
DENEB allows firmware upgrades by simple software "uploads" to some special FlashROM area.
DENEB is the fastest USB2 solution on Amiga Classic, with up to 8MB/s it is more powerful than other PCI USB2 "highspeed" solutions doing only PIO operation with high CPU load.

The Algor (Pro) supports USB1.1 speed only, operates only on Zorro II, has 512kB (1MB) FlashROM and uses PIO on Zorro II.
ALGOR does not allow simple firmware upgrades.
DENEB was the fastest USB1.1 solution on Amiga Classic until DENEB was released.

Both cards come with Poseidon V4.1 full OEM license.

Please check the DMA requirements in the FAQ and the PDF manual on http://www.e3b.de/usb/

If you have questions please feel free to ask :-)

Michael
 

Offline ZyBeR

Re: What's the difference between Algor and Deneb?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2008, 11:03:55 AM »
I have a A4000T original tower with the following cards:
 - CS060 Mk3
 - AlgorPRO (will be removed if I buy a Deneb)
 - Mediator
   --- Gfx
   --- Sound
   --- Nic

Can I use the Deneb in Z3 DMA mode somehow?
 

Offline mboehmer_e3b

Re: What's the difference between Algor and Deneb?
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2008, 11:09:34 AM »
Quote

Can I use the Deneb in Z3 DMA mode somehow?


From Zorro III cards - yes. Some people reported problems with the Mediator 4000 bus boards (not investigated yet, as I don't have one and definitely won't buy one).

There's one thing to check to give you an answer, finally:
How does your SCSI configuration look like?
Where are your HDDs connected to?

Michael
 

Offline platon42

Re: What's the difference between Algor and Deneb?
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2008, 11:25:33 AM »
Quote

ZyBeR wrote:
What's the real difference between Algor Pro and Deneb USB cards?
I have a Algor Pro in my A4000T today and was thinking if I would have any benefits of upgrading?


Additionally to what has been said already: Softwarewise, the Deneb is the only card supporting realtime isochronous transfers, making it possible to use cheap USB Soundcards and the Sonix chipsets for Webcams. Also the Deneb supports QuickIO with even less CPU overhead for transfers.

--
Regards, Chris Hodges )-> http://www.platon42.de <-(
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Offline ZyBeR

Re: What's the difference between Algor and Deneb?
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2008, 12:25:23 PM »
I don't have any problems at all with my AlgorPRO.

I use a CF2IDE adapter to the internal IDE-interface, I have been thinking of using a IDE2SCSI adapter and hook it up to the CS SCSI interface though.

At the moment I have a DAT and CD connected to the internal SCSI interface but I can drop those or just connect the CD to the CS SCSI interface instead, if that would make the Deneb work.

What kind of problems have there been with the Mediator?

Is it possible to boot from a device connected to the Deneb?
 

Offline Tension

Re: What's the difference between Algor and Deneb?
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2008, 12:45:05 PM »
Quote

ZyBeR wrote:

I use a CF2IDE adapter to the internal IDE-interface, I have been thinking of using a IDE2SCSI adapter and hook it up to the CS SCSI interface though.


Oooh, that sounds faaaaar to kludgy for me!!!

Offline ZyBeR

Re: What's the difference between Algor and Deneb?
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2008, 12:51:02 PM »
I agree, but I haven't found any CF2SCSI yet?
Quote

Tension wrote:
Quote

ZyBeR wrote:

I use a CF2IDE adapter to the internal IDE-interface, I have been thinking of using a IDE2SCSI adapter and hook it up to the CS SCSI interface though.


Oooh, that sounds faaaaar to kludgy for me!!!
 

Offline Darrin

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Re: What's the difference between Algor and Deneb?
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2008, 12:52:11 PM »
Quote

Tension wrote:
Quote

ZyBeR wrote:

I use a CF2IDE adapter to the internal IDE-interface, I have been thinking of using a IDE2SCSI adapter and hook it up to the CS SCSI interface though.


Oooh, that sounds faaaaar to kludgy for me!!!


I've got a SCSI-USB adapter in the house that came with my 2GB ORB drive.  I did a quick test in the house and Poseidon picked up the adapater, but wouldn't recognise the inserted Amiga formatted Orb disk.

I'm not sure if this is a problem with the insterface, or whether I've got a problem with my A4000 settings as I can't get the Deneb to recognise any Amiga formatted drives attached via the IDE/SATA-USB cable whereas it used to under OS3.1 (it's great with PC formatted drives).

When I get home next month I'll investigate further and try it with a Fat32 formatted Orb disk and with a SCSI Zip100 drive.
A2000, A3000, 2 x A1200T, A1200, A4000Tower & Mediator, CD32, VIC-20, C64, C128, C128D, PET 8032, Minimig & ARM, C-One, FPGA Arcade... and AmigaOne X1000.
 

Offline mboehmer_e3b

Re: What's the difference between Algor and Deneb?
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2008, 03:36:56 PM »
Quote

What kind of problems have there been with the Mediator?


PIO operation was possible, but no DMA. Reason for this behaviour is unknown.
You may ask on the highway_usb mailing list for details, I guess there are quite a few people with Mediators and E3B cards around.

Quote

Is it possible to boot from a device connected to the Deneb?


With OS3.x for sure. We have some "test systems" which directly cold start from a CF reader connected to a DENEB.
The 4MB included FlashROM on DENEB does the trick.

There's one issue to think about: if you shutdown Poseidon after boot, you're in trouble, as well as during an upgrade of core files of Poseidon.
Having a "normal" boot system at hand is recommended.

Michael
 

Offline Tension

Re: What's the difference between Algor and Deneb?
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2008, 05:26:01 PM »
This may be a stupid question, but does that mean I could boot my A4000 with Denab from an attached USB Memory Stick?

My entire System partition is only 1 Gig!! Secondly, I assume if this worked it would be a lot faster than my 6 year old vanilla no-frills 20 Gig IDE drive??

Thanks in advance.

Quote

mboehmer_e3b wrote:
Quote

What kind of problems have there been with the Mediator?


PIO operation was possible, but no DMA. Reason for this behaviour is unknown.
You may ask on the highway_usb mailing list for details, I guess there are quite a few people with Mediators and E3B cards around.

Quote

Is it possible to boot from a device connected to the Deneb?


With OS3.x for sure. We have some "test systems" which directly cold start from a CF reader connected to a DENEB.
The 4MB included FlashROM on DENEB does the trick.

There's one issue to think about: if you shutdown Poseidon after boot, you're in trouble, as well as during an upgrade of core files of Poseidon.
Having a "normal" boot system at hand is recommended.

Michael

Offline platon42

Re: What's the difference between Algor and Deneb?
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2008, 05:29:41 PM »
Quote

Tension wrote:
This may be a stupid question, but does that mean I could boot my A4000 with Denab from an attached USB Memory Stick?

My entire System partition is only 1 Gig!! Secondly, I assume if this worked it would be a lot faster than my 6 year old vanilla no-frills 20 Gig IDE drive??


Yes to both questions. Depending on your setup between 4.5 MB/sec and 8.5 MB/sec are normal, which is at least twice as fast as the internal IDE which will do 2.3 MB/sec at most.

(Denab, that's even better misspelling than Denep ;-D Doner Denab ;-)
--
Regards, Chris Hodges )-> http://www.platon42.de <-(
hackerkey://v4sw7CJS$hw6/7ln6pr7+8AOP$ck0ma8u2LMw1/4Xm5l3i5TJCOTextPad/e7t2BDMNb7GHLen5a34s5IMr1g3/5ACM
 

Offline Tension

Re: What's the difference between Algor and Deneb?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2008, 05:32:56 PM »
{bleep} whoops

Offline arnljot

Re: What's the difference between Algor and Deneb?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2008, 05:51:50 PM »
@mboehmer
 
So not even the zorro slots on the mediator bus boards will do dma??
 
This is just too increadible, is my piv zorro dma able? And if so how can i know?
 
I thought that the dma thing was a pci only issue?
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