Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Amiga Kit Amiga Store Iridium Banner AMIStore App Store A1200/A600 4xIDE Interface

AuthorTopic: New AROS bounties  (Read 2265 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline HenryCase

New AROS bounties
« on: January 21, 2008, 08:14:17 PM »
Hi all,

Just wondering which of the AROS bounties you'd like to be tackled next, and also whether anyone had any ideas of brand new AROS bounties they'd like to see.

Looking at the current bounties (http://www.thenostromo.com/teamaros2/), I'd say the most important unassigned bounties are those for Kickstart Replacement, ACPI (Phase I) and SoundBlaster AHI Driver Bounty (in that order IMHO).

As for new bounties, there are so many good possibilities. One inspiration for this thread was reading Rob N's great Traveller blog (http://cataclysm.cx/). In the comments section of the most recent post (18/01), someone mentioned that Gnash, the FOSS Flash player, can use Cairo to display its graphics. A bounty for this would be awesome, as it would enhance the work done on Traveller (I admit I spend quite a lot of time on YouTube which is why I'd want an AROS port, but other websites would benefit too).

I'd also like to see bounties created to support those who do more of the back end, lower level AROS stuff, as they are really helping the stability and usefulness of the OS. What these bounties should be I don't know. Can someone here tell us which low level sections of AROS need most work?

I'd also like to see a bounty being started to support the AROS mp3 player AROSamp, as its at an early stage right now and I'm hoping more money equals faster development.

A bounty for more integrated ARexx support would also be awesome.

That will do from me for now. Please post your AROS bounty ideas.
"OS5 is so fast that only Chuck Norris can use it." AeroMan
 

Offline yorgle

Re: New AROS bounties
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2008, 08:44:58 PM »
Personally, I'd love to see the AROS running on OS X bounty fulfilled.  I understand that porting AROS to other platforms should be considered after there's more functionality to port, but I personally believe that if it is running on more platforms, it has a better chance of pulling in more developers to help get the other functionality working, or apps ported and so on.

I don't really have a linux box or a useful PC, but I have many Macs, and although one of my apps was ported by someone else at one point (UberPaint), I'd love to be able to do that work myself.  

I have new directions I'm taking UberPaint and other apps I'm designing currently... and yes, they will be ported to AROS eventually... I'd just love to be able to be doing it sooner myself. ;)

As far as other AROS bounties, I'd love to see native PPC support running on Mac hardware.  There are a lot of old powerbooks around that would make great AROS boxes. ;)
 

Offline HenryCase

Re: New AROS bounties
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2008, 10:05:56 PM »
@yorgle
Well I'm all up for making sure potential application developers have an easy time running AROS, but have got to be honest in saying that I see the platform ports as a low priority right now.

Can you run AROS hosted on PPC Linux? Or run VmwAROS? Until that OSX bounty is fulfilled I mean, I'd like to see it happen too, I just think other parts of AROS should be given focus first. All IMO of course.

How about brand new bounties? Any coding resources you'd like to see implemented?
"OS5 is so fast that only Chuck Norris can use it." AeroMan
 

Offline Krusher

Re: New AROS bounties
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2008, 10:24:50 PM »
A simple programming language, like Amos. The sources are out there, so it should be not the biggest problem getting this on Aros.

I loved Amos as a programming language. It was the first and last one I did something useful with, I wrote a remote control program, using the serial port so I could control the Amiga in various ways elsewhere, be it on a Terminal emulation or a real Terminal (I had a Wyse)

Basically, an operating system needs a programming language that's accessible for everyone.

Next, but that's already covered, a decent Internet browser.
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
  • Total likes: 0
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: New AROS bounties
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2008, 10:39:30 PM »
I think something like  Mattahtias BASIC would probably be a good bet...

http://sourceforge.net/projects/mattathias/

Offline Krusher

Re: New AROS bounties
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2008, 10:45:17 PM »
My best bet is getting people the programming language they remember.
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
  • Total likes: 0
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: New AROS bounties
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2008, 10:53:29 PM »
Quote

Krusher wrote:
My best bet is getting people the programming language they remember.


Yes... and Mattahtias BASIC is an open source AMOS clone... that's why I suggested it :-)

Offline Krusher

Re: New AROS bounties
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2008, 10:55:30 PM »
Oops, did not know that, sorry.

But why use that since the sourcecode of Amos is published?
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
  • Total likes: 0
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: New AROS bounties
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2008, 11:01:02 PM »
Quote

Krusher wrote:
Oops, did not know that, sorry.

But why use that since the sourcecode of Amos is published?


AMOS is totally 68k ASM and tied completely to the Amiga hardware.

Offline Krusher

Re: New AROS bounties
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2008, 11:09:24 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
...
AMOS is totally 68k ASM and tied completely to the Amiga hardware.


Good for me as a hardcore lover of Amiga hardware.

New Bounty then, 68k ASM compatible. But that's already a bounty right?
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
  • Total likes: 0
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: New AROS bounties
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2008, 11:24:31 PM »
Quote

Krusher wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
...
AMOS is totally 68k ASM and tied completely to the Amiga hardware.


Good for me as a hardcore lover of Amiga hardware.

New Bounty then, 68k ASM compatible. But that's already a bounty right?


Yes, the AROS - Kickstart replacement bounty... that's one I'm really looking forward to!

Offline Einstein

Re: New AROS bounties
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2008, 12:09:56 AM »
Hi HenryCase!

Quote
What these bounties should be I don't know. Can someone here tell us which low level sections of AROS need most work?


Resource managers (for resource tracking), including memory manager (for memory tracking and protection).

Result: criminal tasks, instead of the OS, will experience their afterlife. :-)
I have spoken !
 

Offline HenryCase

Re: New AROS bounties
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2008, 12:40:32 AM »
@Krusher
Quote
Basically, an operating system needs a programming language that's accessible for everyone.

I couldn't agree more. Programs like AMOS and Blitz Basic seemed reasonably popular back in the day, hopefully Mattahtias BASIC will be too. I've got a couple of ideas for simple apps I'd like to write using it already.

@bloodline
Quote
Yes, the AROS - Kickstart replacement bounty... that's one I'm really looking forward to!

I think I've found a way that the creation of a Kickstart replacement (which is definitely number one in terms of importance out of the unassigned bounties) can be sped up. Have you ever heard of how IBM-PC clones started? Let me explain...

One of the key proprietary parts of the IBM PC back before the clones came was the BIOS. However, Phoenix Technologies (creator of the first IBM PC BIOS clone) worked out an ingenious way of getting around the reverse engineering problem, by using the 'clean room' technique. From Wikipedia:

"With the success of the IBM PC in 1983, Phoenix decided to provide a IBM PC compatible ROM BIOS to the PC market. A licensable ROM BIOS would allow clone PC manufacturers to run the same applications, and even the MS-DOS that was being used by IBM. However, to do this Phoenix needed a strategy for defense against IBM copyright infringement lawsuits. IBM would claim that the Phoenix programmers had copied parts of the IBM BIOS code published by IBM in its Technical Reference manuals. Because, due to the nature of low-level programming, in two well-written pieces of code that perform the same function some correspondence is inevitable, it would be impossible for Phoenix to defend itself on the grounds that no part of its BIOS matched IBM's. Phoenix developed a "clean room" technique that isolated the Engineers who had been contaminated by reading the IBM source listings in the IBM Technical Reference Manuals. The contaminated Engineers wrote specifications for the BIOS APIs and provided the specifications to "clean" Engineers who had not been exposed to IBM BIOS source code. Those "clean" Engineers developed code from scratch to mimic the BIOS APIs. This technique provided Phoenix with a defensibly non-infringing IBM PC-compatible ROM BIOS. Because the programmers who wrote the Phoenix code had never read IBM's, nothing they wrote could have been copied from IBM's code, no matter how closely the two matched. The first Phoenix PC ROM BIOS was introduced in May, 1984, and helped fuel the growth in the PC industry."

Now the Kickstart is low level code and can be reverse engineered. If we can think of a way to recreate the clean room technique and assign two or more 68k coders to assist each other in this way then we're on to a winner (there also needs to be a fair way to split the bounty but lets not worry about that right now).

The only way I can think of to recreate the 'clean room' technique through the Internet is if the person doing the decompiling and analysis stays completely anonymous and unreachable to the 68k code writers. Or maybe there is another way to do it. Any ideas?

Quote
Einstein wrote:
Hi HenryCase!

Quote
What these bounties should be I don't know. Can someone here tell us which low level sections of AROS need most work?


Resource managers (for resource tracking), including memory manager (for memory tracking and protection).

Result: criminal tasks, instead of the OS, will experience their afterlife. :-)


Hi Einstein! :-)

Yep, they sound suitably important for a bounty. Apart from memory what other resources would need managers? Also, doesn't the x86-64 version of AROS already have partial memory protection? If so, is there any reason why this can't be applied to the other versions of AROS fairly quickly?
"OS5 is so fast that only Chuck Norris can use it." AeroMan
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
  • Total likes: 0
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: New AROS bounties
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2008, 01:01:32 AM »
Quote

HenryCase wrote:

Now the Kickstart is low level code and can be reverse engineered. If we can think of a way to recreate the clean room technique and assign two or more 68k coders to assist each other in this way then we're on to a winner (there also needs to be a fair way to split the bounty but lets not worry about that right now).

The only way I can think of to recreate the 'clean room' technique through the Internet is if the person doing the decompiling and analysis stays completely anonymous and unreachable to the 68k code writers. Or maybe there is another way to do it. Any ideas?


I can assure you the legal issues of this and all techniques required have been discussed in great detail on the AROS dev list. The only problem is lack of interested developers.

Offline HenryCase

Re: New AROS bounties
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2008, 01:17:53 AM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

HenryCase wrote:

Now the Kickstart is low level code and can be reverse engineered. If we can think of a way to recreate the clean room technique and assign two or more 68k coders to assist each other in this way then we're on to a winner (there also needs to be a fair way to split the bounty but lets not worry about that right now).

The only way I can think of to recreate the 'clean room' technique through the Internet is if the person doing the decompiling and analysis stays completely anonymous and unreachable to the 68k code writers. Or maybe there is another way to do it. Any ideas?


I can assure you the legal issues of this and all techniques required have been discussed in great detail on the AROS dev list. The only problem is lack of interested developers.


Well I'm glad the legal issues surrounding the techniques have been discussed. As for the lack of willing/interested developers, as far as I can tell it is a huge task, and one where a team would be preferable. I am prepared to dig around some places we may find willing coders if I knew these things:

1. How are bounties split when there is a team (or if this hasn't happened in the past has this been discussed)?
2. Other than the clean room technique, what other legal methods of creating a kickstart replacement are there?
3. Was there a strong consensus on which would be the best (or easiest) method to use?

Other than the kickstart replacement bloodline, any AROS bounties you'd like to see?
"OS5 is so fast that only Chuck Norris can use it." AeroMan
 

 

Connection Problems

Connection Problems

Sorry, SMF was unable to connect to the database. This may be caused by the server being busy. Please try again later.