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AuthorTopic: OS4 rollout schedule  (Read 13002 times)

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Offline Rogue

Re: OS4 rollout schedule
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2003, 10:12:28 PM »
Quote
The Draco has real CIAs


The absense of CIA's is no problem when you have the actual OS source code and can compile appropriate replacements.

Of course, you won't get cia.resource.
Look out, I\'ve got a gun
 

Offline Rogue

Re: OS4 rollout schedule
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2003, 10:22:47 PM »
Quote
DarthX wrote:
So what's preventing Hyperion from porting OS4 to the pegasos? Hyperion was offered a FREE Pegasos board, correct?

Is there a contract with AmigaInc to limit OS4 to MAI manufactured AmigaOne's?


Oh, boy.

There is no contract to limit to a certain hardware, otherwise there wouldn't be a CyberStormPPC version now would it?

It wouldn't have been a problem to actually buy a Pegasos if we want to port OS 4 to it.

All that is required to get OS 4 on the Pegasos is a proper licence. Why do people think that licencing schemes are so much of a problem? They're in place everywhere. If you want a port of, say, Heretic II, you don't send a free Amiga to Activision. You obtain a licence. What's so strange about this concept?
Look out, I\'ve got a gun
 

Offline JoannaK

Re: OS4 rollout schedule
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2003, 10:55:03 PM »
Quote

PMC wrote:
Hahahaha!

Even as the eternal optimist here (that glass is ALWAYS half full), I can't see OS4 anytime in the next few months.  That doesn't mean that I'd feel bad about being proved wrong!


Well.. In my eyes this entire discussion reminds me too much of last year.. then there were a lot speculations when OS4 is ready and when it'll be delivered.

So.. This Year.. I'll try to avoid commenting too much.
 

Offline Salup

Re: OS4 rollout schedule
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2003, 11:03:02 PM »
I wish I had the money for and AOne. Would be nice to have a real computer again.

Hopefully OS4 will be here soon, so that I can try it out before I start saving money.
 

Offline masc

Re: OS4 rollout schedule
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2003, 11:18:54 PM »
Quote
Rouge:
All that is required to get OS 4 on the Pegasos is a proper licence. Why do people think that licencing schemes are so much of a problem? They're in place everywhere. If you want a port of, say, Heretic II, you don't send a free Amiga to Activision. You obtain a licence. What's so strange about this concept?


Based on previous comments from bbrv, it seems to me that they think they can get OS4 on the pegasos for free.

One in particular I recall he even encouraged it (say stuff like "I`m sure some of you tech heads will sort that [reliance on dongle] out" IIRC).  Somebody must have the quote.

Edit: Ok found it click.

One part I forgot was he even suggested somewhere for the 'smart gals or guys' to discuss it.  It seems to me they are actively encouraging piracy of Hyperion and Amiga`s IP??
 

Offline Dietmar

Re: OS4 rollout schedule
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2003, 11:51:03 PM »
> If you want a port of, say, Heretic II, you don't send a free Amiga to Activision. You obtain a licence. What's so strange about this concept?

What is strange with this concept is that normally, mainboard manufacturers don't have to purchase permission for running an OS. The user purchases the OS and a mainboard and that's the end of it.  It's a  fair situation, with mutual benefits: both have their development costs, the OS manufaturer sells the OS software, and the mainboard manufacturer sells mainboards, everybody wins. Not exactly rocket science, is it ?

A license requirement on top of the OS price looks like a thinly veiled attempt to milk money out of the hardware manufacturer.
 

Offline SidMan

Re: OS4 rollout schedule
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2003, 12:31:56 AM »
@Dietmar



Companies need to make money, and in a market where we can't count on mass sales (unlike the PC clone and Microsoft markets) there has to be some give. The license fee for a hardware producer to run an OS is perfectly viable. I'm sure hardware phone manufacturers have to pay certain royalties for using an OS on their system.

At the end of the day the only current license for new PPC based OS4 systems is Eyetech's Amiga One. If YOUR REQUIRED OS wont run on on your PREFERRED hardware then I can only say that you purchased the wrong board.

If you bought a board to run operating system X, and then Y comes out requiring the manufacturer to pay a fee for use on the system, then you need to talk to the hardware manufacturer. If this cannot be resolved then you need to rethink, or hope that the manufacturer comes to some agreement (ie: pays the fee).

Don't get me wrong I want to see AOS everywhere, but business is money and without money we won't see AOS anywhere.


 

Offline HyperionMP

Re: OS4 rollout schedule
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2003, 01:03:48 AM »
The license is not only about extracting money from the hardware manufacturers.

If hardware manufacturer x wants to bundle its hardware with operating y whichi s proprietary, he needs to charge his customers.

Again, there is no requirement to ship every Pegasos with OS 4, there is only a requirement to ship certain Pegasos machines with OS 4 when customers have indicated that is their OS of choice.

The second reason for the license is to have a contractual mechanism in place to protect consumers from the quite frankly criminal behavior of certain companies who defrauded customers through lack of legally required repairs and total neglect of warranty obligations.

There is ample evidence of that to be found on this very site of people who send it very expensive hardware over 2 years ago for repair and never saw it back.

Sure, if you are a hotshot developer, BBRV can pull some strings for you and you'll get your board repaired or replaced but other than that, you can forget about it.

How can we ask people to return to the platform when companies like that prey on the userbase in violation of countless consumer laws?

 

Offline downix

Re: OS4 rollout schedule
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2003, 01:06:42 AM »
@TheMagicM

Try looking on the reseller list at the pegasosppc site.
Try blazedmongers new Free Universal Computer kit, available with the GUI toolkit Your Own Universe, the popular IT edition, Extremely Reliable System for embedded work, Enhanced Database development and Wide Area Development system for telecommuting.
 

Offline AmigaHeretic

Re: OS4 rollout schedule
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2003, 01:45:41 AM »
@Dietmar

I don't think Hyperion was asking any one to "purchase permission" as you say, just that they uphold their copy protection scheme as it were.  
 
What if the Pegasos had the ability to bypass the Windows copy protection scheme?  Do you think that if they sent a free board to Microsoft that would give Microsoft any incentive to port it?  No. I'm guessing Bill Gates would be like,"You want me to port my OS and anyone can copy it because your board doesn't allow my software to be protected.  Wouldn't that mean I'll sell exactlly 1 copy? Suuurrrreee....I'll get my people right on that."

Peg users,"Yep that's right, but what if we promise no one will pirate it?"

In the background- BBRV yelling,"Tell Gates if he doesn't port it we'll find someone to get that WinXP running on this thing with out that stupid key code or product registration crap!"

But since BBRV wants the Pegasos to have the ablity to run OS4 with out a copy protection scheme, Hyperion should gladly do it?

Sure.

AmigaGuy
A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
Back in my day, we didn\'t have water. We only had Oxygen and Hydrogen, and we\'d just have to shove them together.
 

Offline logain

Re: OS4 rollout schedule
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2003, 01:57:45 AM »
Please stick to the truth Ben about why this
dingle-dongle found its way on the AmigaOne.
The excuses sound already rubbishy back in time
and they do nowadays even more.
I think its really about time to think about how
jumping on the Pegasos instead to still trying
to make these license restrictions look
reasonable and good.

 

Offline AmigaHeretic

Re: OS4 rollout schedule
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2003, 02:11:39 AM »
@logain

The way I see it there are 2 choices Hyperion could use for their copy protection.

1. A Key that is written on a piece of paper distributed with each copy of OS4

or

2. A hardware key that is distributed on the motherboard with each copy of OS4.(motherboards that don't come with OS4 don't have to have it)

Genisi isn't willing to include the key as they want it to run with out the key.  How is that ANY different (if OS4 used the 1st method of protection) then them just sending out a piece of paper with ONE key code on it to everyone buying a Peg that doesn't even come with OS4, just so people can pirate it?

AmigaGuy
A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
Back in my day, we didn\'t have water. We only had Oxygen and Hydrogen, and we\'d just have to shove them together.
 

Offline logain

Re: OS4 rollout schedule
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2003, 02:26:15 AM »
An USB-dongle could do the trick and i suggested this
solution to Ben over a year ago..he wasnt uninterested
and said he'll look into it but then it became clear
that this initiative was started mainly for other reasons
(everybody can think of).
 

Offline downix

Re: OS4 rollout schedule
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2003, 03:01:37 AM »
does not even need to be visible, as the Peg has an internal USB port.
Try blazedmongers new Free Universal Computer kit, available with the GUI toolkit Your Own Universe, the popular IT edition, Extremely Reliable System for embedded work, Enhanced Database development and Wide Area Development system for telecommuting.
 

Offline ShadesOfGrey

Re: OS4 rollout schedule
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2003, 03:25:31 AM »
@logain et al

Yes, but somebody still has to pay for the development of AOS4 on Pegasos, Macintosh, and/or .  AFAIK, neither Amiga Inc. nor Hyperion have that kind of capital.  Nor do either have the resources to support Pegasos owners using a retail AOS4 package.  Does anyone dispute this?!?!?!

Lets please stop rehashing the 'AOS4 on Pegasos' argument.  It's not going to happen unless Genesi obtain an OEM license from Amiga Inc.  Genesi have stated they will not obtain an OEM license from Amiga Inc. (well at least under the current terms).  So, what do you think the likely hood is that Amiga Inc (and/or Eyetech/Hyperion) would allow Hyperion (err...  themselves) to bring AOS4 to the Pegasos?


[PLEASE NOTE: The preceding comments were made from a 'neutral' point of view.  Neutral, in so much as they are not intentionally biased toward either the pro-Amiga/Eytech/Hyperion or pro-Genesi factions.  PLEASE DO NOT TWIST MY WORDS TO THAT END!

This was simply an argument, based on presently available facts, that we (the users of Amiga.org) should just drop the 'AOS4 on Pegasos' topic
--- Edit --- until Amiga Inc./Hyperion start selling retail packages of AOS 4 (excluding AOS4 for PPC enabled 'Classic' systems). --- Edit ---.  It only creates a vicious cycle of flame wars and FUD.  Something that I could most certainly live without.]
Unless otherwise explicitly stated, this message is not meant to affirm nor deny, defend nor offend any faction within the \\\'Amiga\\\' Community.