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AuthorTopic: Amithlon & GFX-cards: any advice?  (Read 8945 times)

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Offline humppa

Amithlon & GFX-cards: any advice?
« on: March 09, 2007, 04:38:43 PM »
I recently dug out my dusty copy of Amithlon and gave it a shot on my Nforce2 system.

While it initially refused to fully boot from CDRom, I finally managed to boot from a USB pen-drive using the latest kernal from Bombcrater (kudos btw!). Next I freed some space on my harddisk and installed OS3.9 on it, so things are looking fine for now.
The next thing I'll try is to get NForce2 LAN and sound working, since both seem to be supported by the latest kernals.

The only problem for now: My Geforce 6800 is only supported with VESA, so there is no hardware acceleration which makes everything quite sluggish.

What are your experiences regarding GFX cards and Amithlon?  I'll have to make a compromise, since I am also using the computer with Windows, so the card shouldn't be too slow.

This is what I am looking for:

The fastest AGP GFX card that has HW-acceleration in Amithlon, is still passively cooled and has working DVI connectors.

Are the Geforce FX 5200 and 5500 really the fastest cards which fit these criteria? Any other suggestions? What about ATI cards? There are even some Geforce4 MX with DVI connector, would those work?
 

Offline Methuselas

Re: Amithlon & GFX-cards: any advice?
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2007, 04:54:11 PM »
Humppa, Gary just released a new kernel, which has support for the 6800 series. I don't have the link to it, but if you'd like, I can send you the kernel, when I get home, this evening. Has support for the Nforce2 chipset, as well.


Don't expect *ANY* Warp3D, unless you have a voodoo and so far, I was unsuccessful using it, so I just went back to my 5200.

If you're using the AC97 Codec, let me know and I can send you the AC97 mixer, so you can turn the CDRom sound on. :-D
\'Using no way as way. Having no limitation as limitation.\' - Bruce Lee

\'No, sorry. I don\'t get my tits out. They\'re not actually real, you know? Just two halves of a grapefruit...\' - Miki Berenyi

\'Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.\' - Dark Helmet :roflmao:

\'And for future reference, it might be polite to ask someone if you can  quote them in your signature, rather than just citing them to make a  sales pitch.\' - Karlos. :rtfm: (I didn\'t ask, obviously......) :lol:
 

Offline humppa

Re: Amithlon & GFX-cards: any advice?
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2007, 05:15:40 PM »
Quote
Humppa, Gary just released a new kernel, which has support for the 6800 series.


W00t! Are you sure? I had a look at the Amithlon list and Gary's website and couldn't find any news on that.

6800 hw-support would be perfect, since I am most happy with my current card (passively cooled). All other cards would be a major downgrade (at least in Windows)...
 

Offline TrevorDick

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Re: Amithlon & GFX-cards: any advice?
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2007, 05:16:25 PM »
Quote
What are your experiences regarding GFX cards and Amithlon? I'll have to make a compromise, since I am also using the computer with Windows, so the card shouldn't be too slow

Maybe this will help  Gary's Amithlon website?

TrevorDick
Supporting all Amiga flavours
 

Offline humppa

Re: Amithlon & GFX-cards: any advice?
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2007, 05:24:53 PM »
Quote
Don't expect *ANY* Warp3D, unless you have a voodoo and so far, I was unsuccessful using it, so I just went back to my 5200.


I already tried a Voodoo 3000 (PCI) which I wpreviously using with my Mediator. With the latest kernal (kern310) it only worked in VESA mode. Are there any kernals that support Voodoo in hw-acceleration?

Btw, how is your 5200 working in Amithlon? Did you try DVI?

Quote
If you're using the AC97 Codec, let me know and I can send you the AC97 mixer, so you can turn the CDRom sound on.


Thanks, sounds great, I'll send you a PM. My mainboard has a AC97 v2.2 Realtek ALC650, so I'll guess it _should_ work with the Codec and Amithlon.

@TrevorDick

Thanks, already knew the website. Not all models are listed there, so I was looking for some experience from Amithlon users. The table lists DVI as "N/A" on some older Geforce models. I wonder if this is because it's not supported or rather because only few of those cards _have_ DVI conncetors.
 

Offline Methuselas

Re: Amithlon & GFX-cards: any advice?
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2007, 05:34:00 PM »
There are no kernels that support Warp3D, that I know of, unfortunately. As for your mainboard, some versions of the AC97 codec will crash the Mixer. My old box would do that, so I had to install a SB512, just to turn on the sound. (Why it's off, by default, is beyond me.)


EDIT - Trevor listed the proper link, so you can use that. I can email you the mixer, right now, 'cos it's still sitting in my email box. Just pm me your email.


DVI does work, though I'm also using a monitor converter, but  I can affirm that it will use the dual heads of a GForce.

\'Using no way as way. Having no limitation as limitation.\' - Bruce Lee

\'No, sorry. I don\'t get my tits out. They\'re not actually real, you know? Just two halves of a grapefruit...\' - Miki Berenyi

\'Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.\' - Dark Helmet :roflmao:

\'And for future reference, it might be polite to ask someone if you can  quote them in your signature, rather than just citing them to make a  sales pitch.\' - Karlos. :rtfm: (I didn\'t ask, obviously......) :lol:
 

Offline humppa

Re: Amithlon & GFX-cards: any advice?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2007, 05:56:23 PM »
Quote
As for your mainboard, some versions of the AC97 codec will crash the Mixer. My old box would do that, so I had to install a SB512, just to turn on the sound. (Why it's off, by default, is beyond me.)


Ok, hope I'm lucky. Thanks for the AC97-mixer by the way.

Quote
DVI does work, though I'm also using a monitor converter, but I can affirm that it will use the dual heads of a GForce.


Ok, so the FX 5200 could be a possible alternative to my Geforce 6800 if I can't get it to work with hw-acceleration.

Are you sure about Geforce 6800 support? Would this be an inofficial kernel newer than 3.10? I'd love to do some betatesting. ;)
 

Offline Methuselas

Re: Amithlon & GFX-cards: any advice?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2007, 06:05:03 PM »
Quote

humppa wrote:

Ok, hope I'm lucky. Thanks for the AC97-mixer by the way.

Quote
DVI does work, though I'm also using a monitor converter, but I can affirm that it will use the dual heads of a GForce.


Ok, so the FX 5200 could be a possible alternative to my Geforce 6800 if I can't get it to work with hw-acceleration.

Are you sure about Geforce 6800 support? Would this be an inofficial kernel newer than 3.10? I'd love to do some betatesting. ;)


It's "unofficial". Gary said it should work, but doesn't mean that it will. I don't have a 6800 series, so I cannot confirm about whether it works or not. My 5200 works flawlessly and Quake268k looks *GREAT* Duke Nukem runs rather well, too.

No worries about the mixer. Glad to be of service. If you want, shoot a PM to Lo, 'cos he sent it to me, first, when I couldn't buy it.  :-D
\'Using no way as way. Having no limitation as limitation.\' - Bruce Lee

\'No, sorry. I don\'t get my tits out. They\'re not actually real, you know? Just two halves of a grapefruit...\' - Miki Berenyi

\'Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.\' - Dark Helmet :roflmao:

\'And for future reference, it might be polite to ask someone if you can  quote them in your signature, rather than just citing them to make a  sales pitch.\' - Karlos. :rtfm: (I didn\'t ask, obviously......) :lol:
 

Offline Kronos

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Re: Amithlon & GFX-cards: any advice?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2007, 07:02:29 PM »
Quote

humppa wrote:

I already tried a Voodoo 3000 (PCI) which I wpreviously using with my Mediator. With the latest kernal (kern310) it only worked in VESA mode. Are there any kernals that support Voodoo in hw-acceleration?


Amithlon can do 3D on a Voodoo (no just 3D, 2D is still unaccelerated). All you need is an AGP-card (so the kernel won't snatch the voodoo) and the hacked&patched Prometheus driver Harald presented in Cologne (back in 2001).

Only problem is that getting that driver involves breaking into Harry's house, getting past the guy himself .....  :roll:
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline DrBombcrater

Re: Amithlon & GFX-cards: any advice?
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2007, 09:37:21 PM »
@All

Just to clarify some points :

* There is no kernel support for the GeForce 6 series right now. I spent some time working on that but the GF6 family is just too different internally from the earlier GeForce parts. It needs a whole new driver, which I don't have time to write.

* The most modern cards supported at the moment are the GeForce FX series. The driver for these is fast and stable, although there are issues with some 'odd' FX cards (5100,5500 and some 5700s) not being picked up correctly. The driver has working DVI - at least on GF FX and GF4 cards.

If you have GF6 or GF7 card and replacing it is not an option I suggest fitting a GeForce FX PCI card and using a dual-input monitor or kvm switch to toggle between the two cards as needed.

* GeForce PCX (the PCI-Express versions of the FX series) should work, but I don't have one to test with.

* Actual dual-head functionality (ie, two independent screens) doesn't work.

* ATI cards work, at least the 7xxx, 8xxx and 9xxx families do. But the driver is buggy, slower than the GeForce one, and won't be developed any further. DVI is known to work on the 7000 and 7500, but seems to be broken on anything else.

At the moment what little development time I have is focused on getting the kernel working correctly with selected laptops. That's one area not really covered by anything else (bar UAE) and the gap is begging to be filled.
 

Offline humppa

Re: Amithlon & GFX-cards: any advice?
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2007, 01:05:00 AM »
@DrBombcrater

Thanks for the clarifications.

I might get myself a FX5200 then. Things are just too sluggish with only VESA on my Geforce 6800.

The idea of running Amithlon on laptops sounds interesting. Are there already any "Amithlon-proven" laptops? At least the Geforce FX Go seems to be working with hw-acceleration (listed on your homepage).

Keep up the good work!
 

Offline DrBombcrater

Re: Amithlon & GFX-cards: any advice?
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2007, 06:17:11 PM »
@humppa

Initial target is the GeForce-equipped members of the Acer Aspire 1360 series. The hardware in these is a good match for the kernel - so much that I have an unmodified 3.10 kernel running fine on a 1362 right now (I'm typing this on it now, and boy is it gorgeous :-D )

Almost everything works already.1280x800 hardware accelerated graphics, 100MB ethernet, audio, IDE DMA, etc. The default wireless card doesn't work, but it's a miniPCI card so its easy enough to replace with a compatible one.

The Apsire 1520 series is also a possible target, but a bit farther down the line. Those are more powerful than the 1360s (Athlon 64 & GF 5700 rather than the 1360's Sempron and GF5200) but they need modified drivers and seem to be much rarer than the 1360s.
 

Offline humppa

Re: Amithlon & GFX-cards: any advice?
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2007, 09:32:09 AM »
@DrBombcrater

Quote
* The most modern cards supported at the moment are the GeForce FX series. The driver for these is fast and stable, although there are issues with some 'odd' FX cards (5100,5500 and some 5700s) not being picked up correctly.


I'm no expert in this, but when assuming that all FX-cards can use the same kernel-driver for hw-acceleration (could be wrong on this), isn't it just a matter of adding all chip-IDs ("NV**") to the kernel?

GeForce FX5950 Ultra    NV38
GeForce FX5900 Ultra    NV35
GeForce FX5900            NV35
GeForce FX5900 XT    NV35
Geforce FX5800          NV30
GeForce FX5700 Ultra    NV36
GeForce FX5700            NV36
GeForce FX5700 LE       NV36
GeForce FX5600 Ultra     NV31
GeForce FX5600            NV31
GeForce FX5500            NV34
GeForce FX5200 Ultra    NV34
GeForce FX5200            NV34

I am asking because I found a good deal on a cheap FX5500 card and just wanted to make sure that it's supported.
The FX5500 is basically a FX5200 with some minor modifications, so if it is "seen" as a FX5200 that shouldn't cause any problems.

It's not any different with the FX Quadro-cards. They work fine when using the driver of their Geforce counterpart. (You can even flash firmware between the models). But I guess their chip-IDs are needed:

Quadro FX 1000    NV30GL (same as FX5800)
Quadro FX 1100    NV36 (same as FX5700)
Quadro FX 2000    NV30GL (same as FX5800)
Quadro FX 3000      NV35GL (same as FX5900)
Quadro FX 600     NV34GL (same as FX5200 Ultra)

this also applies to other series, e.g.

Quadro 4 980 XGL  NV28GL (same as GeForce4 Ti4200-8x)
or
Quadro NVS 200    NV17GL (GeForce4 MX)

Btw, good news on laptop-support, I am currently looking for an older laptop as a "living-room surf station" and with Amithlon-support, the Acer looks like a good choice. :-)


 

Offline DrBombcrater

Re: Amithlon & GFX-cards: any advice?
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2007, 02:24:40 PM »
@humppa

Quote
I'm no expert in this, but when assuming that all FX-cards can use the same kernel-driver for hw-acceleration (could be wrong on this), isn't it just a matter of adding all chip-IDs ("NV**") to the kernel?

If only it were that simple!

The NV3x series are not all exactly register compatible. The differences are subtle, but more than enough to break the driver. The biggest pain is that there is little predictability. When I got the driver working on the first generation FX cards (5200, 5600, 5800) I expected it not to work with the second generation cards (5700, 5900 and 5950) but in fact it worked fine on the 5900 and 5950, but broke horribly on some 5700s. Not all, just some of them.

Kernel 3.10 has the correct PCI ID for the 5500 so it will at least try to make it work.
 

Offline humppa

Re: Amithlon & GFX-cards: any advice?
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2007, 02:42:38 PM »
@DrBombcrater

Quote
If only it were that simple!

The NV3x series are not all exactly register compatible.


Ok, that explains a lot. I thought they'd at least be compatible regarding 2D-acceleration.

In any case it should work with Quadro-cards that are using the same chips as their Geforce-counterparts. Does Kernel 3.10 already have their PCI IDs? If not, would it help if I look them up for you (for adding them in a future version)?

On Amithlonopen I read that you were working on Voodoo3 support at some point, but only had a half-working beta version at that time. Any possibility for sending me that kernel? I'd really like to test...