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AuthorTopic: New PS3/Nintendo Wii, gaming in general  (Read 2392 times)

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Offline Olecranon

Re: New PS3/Nintendo Wii, gaming in general
« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2006, 05:28:52 PM »

tonyvdb wrote:
Some of you have mentioned the BlueRay capabilities of the PS3. Dont get sucked into buying it because of that. The high deff output of the PS3 will never be as good as a stand alone player and the price has already come down on them since they first came out. By mid next year more companies will have High deff players out and the price will fall. Nintendo put alot of effort into the development of the Wii and the ingenious controller will make games fun to play again. The Wii is also 100% backwards compatible playing all the N-game cube games as well as downloading all the rom games from the N-64 so its got my vote.

That might be true if a person is going to use an analog high definition connector (component) to connect the PS3 to their TV.  Connecting via HDMI (digital high def) yields the same results as a stand alone Blu Ray unit.  There are already reviews out that confirm this.

Offline Louis Dias

Re: New PS3/Nintendo Wii, gaming in general
« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2006, 10:12:34 PM »
I have a Samsung HDMI DVD player and I don't have any issues connecting it to my Samsung 50" DLP.  This is just another quality issue for Sony.  Yes, you can work around it but it's an annoyance.  Sony made a big deal about Blue Ray and HDMI and you'd think they'd get their {bleep}e straight especially with all the quality issues the PS2 and PSP had.

Offline MskoDestny

Re: New PS3/Nintendo Wii, gaming in general
« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2006, 11:59:31 PM »

lou_dias wrote:
I played Excite Truck and the graphics were alot better than any Gamecube racer I've ever played.

Doesn't seem much better than the Need for Speed or F1 games for the Gamecube. An incremental improvement perhaps, but it's a far cry from something like PGR3 graphically.

I think complaints about Wii graphics on some games is because lazy developers just recompiled GC builds for the Wii with no graphical updates.  And it looked great on a 27" widescreen LCD and even my female acquaintance enjoyed Excite Truck as a non-gamer.

The Wii is fundamentally incapable of the kind of next-gen wow that the 360, PS3 and modern PCs can deliver. Bumping the clock and memory on Gamecube hardware will give you higher poly-counts and higher-res textures, but it won't give you the kind of lighting and physics that more advanced machines are capable of. If it was priced more like an incremental improvement to the Gamecube ($150-180) I don't think there would be much complaining.

Offline Waccoon

Re: New PS3/Nintendo Wii, gaming in general
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2006, 04:22:05 AM »
koaftder:  The wii graphics will be a good step up from the GC graphics for sure.

I doubt it.  First, demo kits are available now so you can see the difference, and there really isn't that much.  Also, since the Wii dev kits are the same as the Gamecube dev kits, developers already know the architecture very well and probably know how to exploit its power fully at launch.  What you see now is likely what it will be through the life of the console.

My biggest gripe about Wii graphics is visual quality.  It's one thing to add a few more million polygons, but many Wii games don't use anti-aliasing.  That's unacceptable for 2006 hardware at SDTV resolutions, regardless of price range.  A $30 budget PC video card can do that.

Detail may not affect gameplay, but visual quality does.

Nintendo is probably making $80-$100 profit on each machine, and unlike Gamecube, customers are not enjoying the benefits of their cost cutting.  The Gamecube was actually a good machine.

I refuse to buy a Wii until they bring the cost down, and resolve the trickle of software that plagued the Gamecube.  Virtual Console titles do not count as launch titles.

tonyvdb:  This has been the case with the X-box and its DVD output as well. The PS3 has no bench test reviews as of yet but it is almost a garentee that it will fall into the "spend alot of time developing the gaming graphics quality, CPU and not enough on the Video output quality" rut.

The XBox uses only software and no filtering on it's DVD playback, so it looks like crap.  I think the XBox uses a derivitive of PowerDVD, which is crap by any standard.  The DVD quality from my PS2 easily rivals a high-end $250 DVD player in terms of visual quality, because the filtering and color-correction is all done in hardware.

The main reason HD players are so expensive is because they are actual PCs, instead of purpose-built embedded hardware.  Once they get rid of P4 processors and move to custom hardware, prices will drop REAL fast.  $150 HD players in 3 years or so.

Tomas:  The ps2 was mainly a horrible dvd player due to the sucky output.. The default output was only composite!!

Get a better cable.  My S-Video cable cost $5 and the image is rock solid and beautiful.  I never bothered to get component cables.

Then again, my PS2 was manufactured about two years after launch.  I wouldn't be surprised if the cheaper PS2 slim has awful output.

tonyvdb:  HD DVDs will still need to be decoded and that uses a different process then outputting the Game video. Sony will not have spent much time on this because of the price that the PS3 is marked at.

Um, Sony specializes in movie hardware.  I thought the PS2 would be an awful DVD player (like my PC) until I tried it and found it to be a REAL DVD player.

It's all in the filtering and color-correction.

Also note that Blu-ray movies use a similar codec to DVD.  The players don't look as good as HD-DVD, but that also means the codec technology from DVD will be carried over quite well.  I expect the PS3 to be a good HD player.  Of course, I have no interest in HD movies.

Lou:  I think complaints about Wii graphics on some games is because lazy developers just recompiled GC builds for the Wii with no graphical updates.

You mean like what Nintendo did to Zelda, their flagship product and probably most important Wii release?  With all the fanboys chanting "graphics don't matter", and Nintendo's ability to profit from recycling their biggest killer app of the year, I doubt that's going to give much incentive to other developers to even bother optimizing anything.

My take is that the Wii processor has the same geometry and AA engine as the Gamecube, and the same embedded video memory issues (probably 2-3MB of texture memory).  They only sped it up and added some pixel shaders, as seen in Mario Galaxies.  The CPU is a different story, but in any case, it's unacceptable by 2006 technology standards.

I'm going to pick up a 360 after the holidays, and continue gaming on my PC and PS2 for now.

Offline adolescent

Re: New PS3/Nintendo Wii, gaming in general
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2006, 05:25:44 AM »

lou_dias wrote:
This is just another quality issue for Sony.  Yes, you can work around it but it's an annoyance.  

Sure, it's a one time annoyance.  But, since Sony has already put out the information, and has a work around already in the hardware I don't think it's a big deal.  My guess is they'll issue a firmware patch once things settle down (if they haven't already).  Just like they are doing for the 200 or so PS1/PS2 games that are having issues.  
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(

Offline Louis Dias

Re: New PS3/Nintendo Wii, gaming in general
« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2006, 12:40:16 PM »
Well, I played Madden on MY Wii last night...

I don't know...  Maybe the progressive scan cables I have on order will show some skin textures better.  Overall, as it stands, I'll say my Madden '05 (yes 05 not 06) on the Gamecube in progressive scan has better textures than Madden 07 on the Wii.

However, the lighting is ALOT better and the graphics in the stuff that doesn't matter such as the crowd, camera crews on the sidelines and stuff.

Now when I first got my progressive scan cables for the GC and played Metroid Prime is when I noticed what a difference those cables can make.  That's what really makes textures shine on the GC.

So I will reserve final judgement until I get my cables from Nintendo which were backordered as of last week.

Also, the animation is alot better and I never saw any framerate drop that the GC version has.  I should try playing my GC version on the Wii via the composite cables to make a better comparison...and see if the Wii hardware eliminates the framerate drop on GC games.

As for playing it with the Wii controllers, it took a full game for me to get used to it.  On offense, it's great.  On defense, I got to read the manual on how to play the defensive line better...but that's no different than me playing it on the GC.  There are alot more defensive options then selecting a defender with the pointer and telling that defender what to do (as in an individual audible vs. a team one).

Oh, and I got to play alot more of Excite Truck, and let me tell you that game is fun as all HFIL!!!

Speaking of Dragonball Z:Budokai Tenkaichi 2
Beautiful game...however, I may have to switch to the GC controllers for playing it...or atleast got throught the tutorials better.  But DBZ fighting at it's best!

I also bought GT Pro Series to get the wheel. Haven't tried it yet.  

I'm also stil in the 1st village on Zelda.  Just got the fishing pole.  Generally I'm way to busy to be posting here and am having so much fun instead of {bleep}ing about which system is better.  I'm only posting because I'm at work now...LOL!

All 3 are good systems.  I see no reason to pay that kind of money for a PS3 with Sony's quality control track record.  The 360 is a great system but I don't support Microsoft as a rule and it's still a power hungry loud biatch.  Nintendo just made another quality product.  Sure it just feels like a slight upgrade with a fancy new controller right now...but we'll see how much more power future dev kits unlock.  Even if they don't - it's still a boat load of fun and that's good enough for me.

Wii Sports Bowling and Excite Truck FTW!  (And I generally don't do racing games...)  Try them and tell me this system ain't going to be fun!  Don't just watch screenshots or video reviews.  Watching sucks, playing rules!