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AuthorTopic: is super street fighter 2 a good port?  (Read 5291 times)

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Offline doctorq

Re: is super street fighter 2 a good port?
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2006, 08:07:52 AM »
@Legerdemain

Sorry to ask, but are there at least ONE positive thought in your mind about Amiga??? Most of your post seems to be from a rather negative perspective...
 

Offline Legerdemain

Re: is super street fighter 2 a good port?
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2006, 08:35:50 AM »
@DoctorQ

I guess you are reffering to my rather frequent 'negative' posts which I've been writing lately, but, yes, of course I have tons of positive thoughs on the Amiga.

What I am fed up with, though, is this constant non-critial praise of things realted to the Amiga. And, to clarify it even further: only the non-critical praise, not praise in itself. Being nostalgic, is one thing, and I can of course not ever say that being nostalgic is wrong. But, when nostalgia goes as far as claiming things which in reality isn't true I just can't help but commenting on it.

I've even heard some people claim Moonstone to have smooth character movement (as in the characters scrolling around softly on the screen when being moved) which of course isn't true. And it is not a matter of personal opinions (because personal opinions are just that; personal opinions), it is rather an unqestionable fact that the characters doesn't scroll around softly on the screen.

I don't know if my point is getting through here...  but, what I am trying to say is that what annoys me is when people present personal opinions as facts, and especially when the facts seems like non-critical praise.

I mean... claiming that F-Zero GX for the GameCube has perfect 60Hz update of the screen, how many would disagree (not many at all, probably)? Claiming that Ruff'n'tumble has perfect and smooth scrolling, on the other hand, is something that many people could disagree with.

UPDATE: Oh, and concerning positive though on the Amiga: I think Pang! is a wonderful arcade port! I love Super Stardust AGA! I think it is like magic to watch IBrowse work on my 060 realising how impressive it is to surf the wed as 'smoothly' as I do on an old 68k in comparation on how it runs on my XP2400+! I consider SlamTilt being the best pinball game ever released, and that's the Amiga version I am talking about. I find Brilliance (and to some extent DeluxePaint) being the only option if wanting to work with pixels since there isn't one single program released for Windows that does the job as good. I consider Brian The Lion having raised the bar so high for the quality of game production, in the effects & eyecandy department, on the Amiga that most other platformers that I've seen just doesn't feel well produced. I find the 'structure' of Workbench/AmigaOS being sadly overlooked... still all this years later everything feels so 'simple' and 'obvious', just look at the devices, Locale, DOSDRivers, Datatypes, Libraries... what the hell went wrong with the 'logic' and 'structure' of todays OS'es? Looking at Windows makes me cry, out of fear of what is to come next. And so on. And so on.
Amiga 1200, Mirage Tower, PC-Key 1200, Blizzard 1260/50, SCSI Kit, 256MB RAM, 40GB HD, Mediator SX, Soundblaster 128, Voodoo 3 and Realtek 8139.
 

Offline doctorq

Re: is super street fighter 2 a good port?
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2006, 09:15:16 AM »
@Legerdemain

OK, I see, and I can see the point in most what you are saying.

However, one of your main arguments is about games, for instance the Quake thing, and apparently also Moonstone. You say it yourself; personal oppinions are personal oppinions, so you stating that Moonstone hasn't got smooth scrooling is doing the same as you apparently hate about other; stating your personal oppinions as a fact. At least that is how I see it.

The scrolling in Moonstone might not be perfect for everybody, but maybe this not-so-smooth scrolling is what makes it a good game for somebiody else.

The same goes for Quake; it is not a requirement for me to have Quake running 100+ fps in a 1280 x 1024 screen, even though the developers (and many others) may think that this is the optimal situation. I can live with having quite a fewer fps and a 320 x 200 screen, so I can avoid using my PC and enjoy the game on my Amiga. I have tried on both Amiga and PC, and I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything by playing it on my Amiga, again, it's a personal opinion. Sure, my PC would most likely kill the Amiga as towards speed and resolutions, but I enjoy sitting in front of my Amiga.

As for IBrowse.... he, I can't quite follow your there. It's a decent browser and is useable on most pages, but often it just doesn't cut it :-( As I see it it needs a very big update on the javascript library. If IBrowse was surfing smoothly, and I could access my home banking from the Amiga (I can't since my bank have decided to use JVM for their interface) I wouldn't have the use for a PC; then my girlfriend would have both a desktop and a laptop to use as she pleases.

Sorry for the off topic hi jack...

-EDIT-

Oh, by the way, I feel the same as with the non-critical situation you mention. Mostly regarding promised hardware expansions that will stay vapourware; I can't understand why people still have hope that it will come, when no sign of proof has been made.
 

Offline Legerdemain

Re: is super street fighter 2 a good port?
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2006, 09:45:27 AM »
Update: Yes, sorry about going somewhat OT in this thread. This will be my last post in this thread that goes OT.


@DoctorQ

But, thing is, you are saying exactly what I mean to say.

I'll try to make a final short explanation that hopefully will make things clear (concerning how I look upon the entire issue). Look at these two statements:

* Lemmings have perfect scrolling

* SuperFrog have perfect 50Hz scrolling

The first statement is what I consider a personal opinion. People may find the scrolling perfect for that very game, but in reality the scrolling could theoretically be much smoother than it is.

The second statement is what I consider a fact. SuperFrog could not ever possibly scroll any smoother since the game runs in 50Hz and the scroll is 50Hz perfect.

So... when you say that Quake runs smoothly, I look upon that as a personal opinion. Not a fact. And my reply was that my personal opinion was different than yours. If Quake would have only run on NTSC/AGA and would have run in solid 60FPS it could not possibly have been questioned that the game didn't run smoothly. But now your statement could be questioned, and since my opinion was so completely different from yours I felt that I wanted to share my opinion in the thread, although I had to point out that it was just an opinion and that others very well could be satisfied with how 'smooth' the game ran.

If you would have written something like 'I personally think the game runs smooth, but some may differ' instead of 'There is a special version of Quake called BlitzQuake, which runs very smoothly on 060/Mediator' my post would have looked rather different.


Oh, and concerning IBrowse...  I only meant that I find it fascinating that I am sitting on and old 68060 processor running at 50MHz using IBrowse to surf the web and it runs as fast as it does compared to how it runs on an 2400MHz machine. Concerning what IBrowse offer in the HTML/JavaScript/CSS/blahblahblah department, well, it is years behind. But that wasn't really my point, now, was it?

:-P
Amiga 1200, Mirage Tower, PC-Key 1200, Blizzard 1260/50, SCSI Kit, 256MB RAM, 40GB HD, Mediator SX, Soundblaster 128, Voodoo 3 and Realtek 8139.
 

Offline doctorq

Re: is super street fighter 2 a good port?
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2006, 10:14:29 AM »
Quote

If you would have written something like 'I personally think the game runs smooth, but some may differ' instead of 'There is a special version of Quake called BlitzQuake, which runs very smoothly on 060/Mediator' my post would have looked rather different.


In my world, the two statements you have above is in fact the same; personal oppinions. Personally I think Quake is playable on Amiga, and personally I think BitzQuake runs smoothly on 060/Mediator. Neither has been stated as facts, sorry if it seems that way, but from my perspective, it doesn't ;-)

Anyway, it is good that all people haven't gotten the same opinions.... where would the world be now if they had???

Sorry, not trying to start an argument, this will be my last reply in this thread as well.
 

Offline leirbag28

Re: is super street fighter 2 a good port?
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2006, 02:17:43 PM »


I think a more correct thing to say is "I think Quake runs PRETTY smooth for an Amiga"

Now about opinions of games...I just think people are amazed and relieved when they see something like Ruff N Tumble............Which does NOT run Smooth and should have.........nevertheless, an amazing game or at least graphically satisfying that confirms to us what we already knew....Amiga can do it like the consoles.............and even better...............because if Bubble And Squeek can run perfectly smooth (and it does) then so could have Ruff N Tumble.............the programmers just couldnt seem to do it I guess.

Alot of games on th Amiga were just excellent ideas not necessarily excellently executed.  I love the CHaos Engine concept..the packaging, the characters, sfx, and the whole thing as a package and the fact it was released on Amiga first..........but..indead it could have been better without sacraficing anything....they should have made the characters larger and more animated and smoother.  

Project X should have had ingame music with sfx if you could choose it........plus faster pace......Zool should have had more color on the forground......and more detail on Zool............Zool 2 massively improved on the way the levels looked and the way Zool was drawn.....but Zool himself still lacked fluidity and more colors........should have also had Music and sfx at the same time...........the same way Psygnosis accomplishes it.

Many games werent made to the fullest......simply because the software house wanted a larger audience............................perfect example is Psygnosis games and the SHadow of the Beast trilogy.......................they all run on 512k!  imagine if they were made for 1mb or 2mb machines...........alot better graphically and technically.

AMiga can do it and it can do it better than it was previosly done.

Elfmania proved an ECS Amiga can DO perfectly Smooth Street Fighter 2 games and look as good as the SNES version or better..........I never compare Amiga games to SEGA Genesis or that they should be ported from it......Genesis has always been inferior to the Super Nintendo.  
Genesis  = 64 colors FM sound
SNES   =  256 colors  16bit sound

The Amiga is usually right between the 2 but can accomplish what both can do....in some cases an accelerator may be needed........but the SNES used one also......the SuperFX chip in the cartridges such as for Killer Instinct.

Amiga is a great machine! :-)

Pinball Fantasies on SNES Sucks!  and so Does CHaos Engine (Soldiers of Fortune)

CD32 is actually the best Amiga ever made by Commodore!...
 

Offline Legerdemain

Re: is super street fighter 2 a good port?
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2006, 02:48:54 PM »
@leirbag28

Thank you.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

But one thing you forgot to mention... Universal Soldier (Turrican II) for the SNES (or, in reality, for the Genesis since I'm not sure that nothing but the beta of the game exists for the SNES). Oh dear, did they f**k up that port, or what?

Amiga 1200, Mirage Tower, PC-Key 1200, Blizzard 1260/50, SCSI Kit, 256MB RAM, 40GB HD, Mediator SX, Soundblaster 128, Voodoo 3 and Realtek 8139.
 

Offline leirbag28

Re: is super street fighter 2 a good port?
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2006, 03:18:32 PM »
@Legerdemain

Yes...they had Universal Soldier (Turrican II) for SNES, but I believe it was Called Super Turrican!  the game was technically nicer and had good sound..............but it certainly was NO Turrican.the Amiga Music and play was better.  It was just too different on the SNES and didnt do anything special.

One port I did like was Zool 2 on the Jaguar and SNES....at least the way Zool was drawn.............the game on Jaguar was extremely Lo Res....it was unfortunate. I bought a Jaguar just for Zool 2........though thr gfx were drawn in a cool way.......it looked too lo-Res
CD32 is actually the best Amiga ever made by Commodore!...
 

Offline Legerdemain

Re: is super street fighter 2 a good port?
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2006, 03:34:45 PM »
Quote
Yes...they had Universal Soldier (Turrican II) for SNES, but I believe it was Called Super Turrican! the game was technically nicer and had good sound..............but it certainly was NO Turrican.the Amiga Music and play was better. It was just too different on the SNES and didnt do anything special.


Uhm, actually there's three different Turricans for the SNES.

Universal Soldier is Turrican II with modified sprites and some added levels. Much like Probotector vs. Contra, Universal Soldier played with a suitless soldier, and the first level was some crappy jungle which had nothing to do with the original Turrican II.

Then there's Super Turrican, which is a completely different game, and holds some elements from the various Amiga games but cast in an entirely new environments (or mostly new environments, at least). It feels kind of odd, but still behaves pretty much like one expects a Turrican game to behave.

Finally there's Super Turrican II which really took a turn for the odd. The oddest part in Super Turrican II is to me to fact that you are riding on different vehicles in some mode7 rendered environments, and that you do pretty often. It is quite good looking, but doesn't feel much like a Turrican game at all.
Amiga 1200, Mirage Tower, PC-Key 1200, Blizzard 1260/50, SCSI Kit, 256MB RAM, 40GB HD, Mediator SX, Soundblaster 128, Voodoo 3 and Realtek 8139.
 

Offline ptek

Re: is super street fighter 2 a good port?
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2006, 03:35:23 PM »
Quote
I find the 'structure' of Workbench/AmigaOS being sadly overlooked... still all this years later everything feels so 'simple' and 'obvious', just look at the devices, Locale, DOSDRivers, Datatypes, Libraries... what the hell went wrong with the 'logic' and 'structure' of todays OS'es? Looking at Windows makes me cry, out of fear of what is to come next.


Yes, I totally agree with you.
But for a grotesque example, look at Linux crap file structure...

etc, usr, mnt, bah !

And Linux is free, but has it's cost : eats up all of your hard disk space installing *every* file from a dependency (even the source and docs!) and demands at least 1024x768. Of course it run even on 640x480, but the utilities available it assumes the 1024x768 as standard and requires resolutions like.

And hey, for those who think 640x480 is irrealist, that's the resolution i'm using now on my PC with winblowsXP at thsi moment, and only few utilites requires higher resolutions, so this is the resolution I use about 90% of the time.

Onions have layers ...
 

Offline Legerdemain

Re: is super street fighter 2 a good port?
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2006, 03:36:50 PM »
Here is a link to a site which talks about most of the different Turrican releases:

http://hg101.classicgaming.gamespy.com/turrican/turrican.htm
Amiga 1200, Mirage Tower, PC-Key 1200, Blizzard 1260/50, SCSI Kit, 256MB RAM, 40GB HD, Mediator SX, Soundblaster 128, Voodoo 3 and Realtek 8139.
 

Offline Morax

Re: is super street fighter 2 a good port?
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2006, 02:09:50 PM »
Quote

Genesis has always been inferior to the Super Nintendo.  
Genesis  = 64 colors FM sound
SNES   =  256 colors  16bit sound

The Amiga is usually right between the 2 but can accomplish what both can do....in some cases an accelerator may be needed........but the SNES used one also......the SuperFX chip in the cartridges such as for Killer Instinct.


Actually the SNES has 8-bit (according to this only 4-bit) sound, with 8 stereo channels:
Quote
The sound chip (Sony SPC700) which actually a separate processor is a 8 bit sound chip with a 16-bit program counter, but all of it's registers are 8-bit. Even though it is a 8 bit chip it doesn´t generate more than 4-bit ADPCM sound data. It has 64Kbyte memory and 8 stereo channels.

source: www.nintendoland.com
-Nothing to see here, move along!-
 

Offline Tomas

Re: is super street fighter 2 a good port?
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2006, 04:05:26 PM »
I dont think there is any SF2 port for the amiga that dosent suck. I think it might suck a bit less than the orignal though.
 

Offline Tomas

Re: is super street fighter 2 a good port?
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2006, 04:23:52 PM »
Quote
But for a grotesque example, look at Linux crap file structure...

It is messy compared to the amiga way, but i sure as hell think it beats the Windows way. Like for examle how /home=user dirs, /usr/bin being binary/executable files, /dev being the dir for devices and so on.. In windows everything is dumped into the windows or system dir.

Quote
And hey, for those who think 640x480 is irrealist, that's the resolution i'm using now on my PC with winblowsXP at thsi moment, and only few utilites requires higher resolutions, so this is the resolution I use about 90% of the time.

Why exactly do you use such low res?? Old monitor? I cannot use more than 800x600 on this old laptop i am typing on now, and it looks like hell on windowsxp in my opinion.
 

Offline leirbag28

Re: is super street fighter 2 a good port?
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2006, 04:47:10 PM »
@Morax

Have you heard the Super Nintendo in action?  almost all games have better sound than most Amiga games and definitaly than Genesis games.

Be it what ever bit the sound is. It may be due to higher sampling rates and more memory for sound.

Lots of AMiga games could have had better sound and Gfx had they been designed to use more RAM




CD32 is actually the best Amiga ever made by Commodore!...