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AuthorTopic: Finally tried AROS  (Read 2848 times)

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Offline bloodline

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Re: Finally tried AROS
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2006, 08:03:27 AM »
Quote

itix wrote:

And I think 'integrated UAE' to run 68k programs on x86 AROS is bollocks: the concept is not proven to work.



Well, when we discussed the idea, the concept of integration was basically to run a 68k compile of AROS in UAE. The 68k version would be patched so that intuition/graphics/dos library calls would be passed through to the x86 AROS... this would make System friendly apps appear to be running with native apps (though obviously they would really be in a separate environment, not ideal but would not really be a problem). Hardware hitting apps would just run in a window on the AROS desktop. Part of the integration would be to be able to launch 68k apps from the AROS environment. All seems reasonable to me.

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Re: Finally tried AROS
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2006, 08:05:18 AM »
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cv643d wrote:

It was a bit disturbing that the menu was not fixed at the top of the screen, I would have prefered the meny at the top like on classic Amigas. But all in all it was a fantastic experience...  I look forward to installing AROS on my Mini-ITX computer in the future.


Go to the "prefs drawer", and open the "input" prefs control program, you can adjust how the menus function there... I prefer the orginal functionality too :-)

Offline itix

Re: Finally tried AROS
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2006, 09:52:48 AM »
Quote

The 68k version would be patched so that intuition/graphics/dos library calls would be passed through to the x86 AROS...


This involves endianess problems in a way it is not possible map functions like OpenWindow() to the x86 AROS... making rendering calls to gfx lib is impossible because struct RastPort is not blackboxed and could have bigebdian pointers like the font, bitmap, layers, tmpras...

It is (of course) possible replace kickstart rom code in UAE by native x86 code but possibilities to co-operate with the host OS are very limited... share filesystem, share settings, maybe even let 68k programs have appicons on Wanderer but I think that is it.
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Finally tried AROS
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2006, 09:58:12 AM »
Quote

itix wrote:
Quote

The 68k version would be patched so that intuition/graphics/dos library calls would be passed through to the x86 AROS...


This involves endianess problems in a way it is not possible map functions like OpenWindow() to the x86 AROS... making rendering calls to gfx lib is impossible because struct RastPort is not blackboxed and could have bigebdian pointers like the font, bitmap, layers, tmpras...


The 68k functions would not pass directly to the the corresponding x86 fucntions, but rather UAE would call the x86 function to perform the function on the x86 side. Taking care of any translation and differences.

Quote

It is (of course) possible replace kickstart rom code in UAE by native x86 code but possibilities to co-operate with the host OS are very limited... share filesystem, share settings, maybe even let 68k programs have appicons on Wanderer but I think that is it.


We wouldn't use a kickstart ROM, but rather a 68k compile of AROS :-) The idea is not to integrate 68k programs into to the x86 environment, but to allow 68k and x86 programs to run in the same GUI space (There would still be two separate installs of AROS) :-)

Offline falemagn

Re: Finally tried AROS
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2006, 12:17:32 PM »
Quote

This involves endianess problems in a way it is not possible map functions like OpenWindow() to the x86 AROS... making rendering calls to gfx lib is impossible because struct RastPort is not blackboxed and could have bigebdian pointers like the font, bitmap, layers, tmpras...


There'd be no endianess problem of any sort, as 68k programs would only be able to see the memory allocated for the emulator. It would work by mirroring any visual or otherwise state-changing operation on the native AROS, but still providing the 68k version of all structures to the emulated environment.
 

Offline tomekm

Re: Finally tried AROS
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2006, 03:19:00 PM »
Amithlon runs actually everything written for 68k in a system-conform way. It`s an emulator, like WinUAE, but it is much faster, and allows direct PCI bus handling through it`s powerpci.library and openpci.library.

This means you can use video gards, sound cards, LAN contrlrs, and USB devies as if you had an PCI-expanded amiga and those cards fitted inside it.

And the whole emulation is MUCH MUCH faster than WinUAE because the emulator is actually the only task that is ran in such a PC - it behaves close to a stand-alone OS.
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Offline uncharted

Re: Finally tried AROS
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2006, 09:53:35 PM »
Just thought I'd weigh in with an opinion. ;-)

This would suit me:-

Being able to launch an application in the emulation by double-clicking an icon (even if it's just an alias rather than the app itself)  Emulated programs could all be run on the emulated screen, they don't have to be in the same screen.

Being able to share the clipboard, could be done through UAE. Pass the emulated clipboard contents to the AROS clipboard and vice versa.

Being able to communicate via ARexx (if UAE could present dummy ports) - Does AROS have ARexx?

Being able to double-click to run games.  That is have a file (either a configuration file or perhaps a package of diskimages+configuration ala OSX bundles) that can be launceh from Wanderer.  This would be so cool, it would have an appeal to the Retro crowd.

More of an enhanced UAE than a change in AROS.
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Finally tried AROS
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2006, 10:18:34 PM »
@uncharted
Quote
Being able to communicate via ARREX (if UAE could present dummy ports) - Does AROS have ARREX?

AROS has no ARREX. AROS has no ARexx, either. I think AROS does have Regina though, but it's not really ARexx compatible.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Finally tried AROS
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2006, 10:33:19 AM »
Quote

Piru wrote:
@uncharted
Quote
Being able to communicate via ARREX (if UAE could present dummy ports) - Does AROS have ARREX?

AROS has no ARREX. AROS has no ARexx, either. I think AROS does have Regina though, but it's not really ARexx compatible.


IIRC, Staf worked on making the AROS Regina implementation AREX compatible.

Offline Fats

Re: Finally tried AROS
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2006, 01:13:07 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
[IIRC, Staf worked on making the AROS Regina implementation AREX compatible.


The work is not finished though. Although almost all ARexx specific commands have been implemented and integrated in the regina source some of them are still missing. Also there is no rx executable yet either.

Staf.
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Offline uncharted

Re: Finally tried AROS
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2006, 01:16:15 PM »
Quote

Piru wrote:
@uncharted
Quote
Does AROS have ARREX?

AROS has no ARREX.


It had been a very long week!  :crazy:
 

Offline uncharted

Re: Finally tried AROS
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2006, 01:19:39 PM »
So aside from crappy spelling, any other thoughts about going for an enhanced UAE rather than full-blown integration?
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Finally tried AROS
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2006, 01:21:35 PM »
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uncharted wrote:
So aside from crappy spelling, any other thoughts about going for an enhanced UAE rather than full-blown integration?


Well, your earlier "wish list" post for UAE in AROS, is basicly what we want to have.

Offline uncharted

Re: Finally tried AROS
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2006, 02:07:46 PM »
I meant the idea of putting all the funtionality within UAE rather than making changes to AROS itself.
 

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Re: Finally tried AROS
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2006, 02:23:30 PM »
Quote

uncharted wrote:
I meant the idea of putting all the funtionality within UAE rather than making changes to AROS itself.


Well, the AROS approach would mean no sharing of 68k and native libraries... message passing between tasks wouldn't really make any sense either as the 68k would be in it's own address space... and it wouldn't really be easy to get exec on the native and 68k to be aware of each other... um... lowlevel things like that really... it would be pretty much like running UAE, except the OS friendly 68k apps would run in such a way as to make it impossible for the user to know UAE was there...