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AuthorTopic: Loosing faith in the Amiga "community", like so many before me  (Read 11821 times)

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Offline Waccoon

Re: Amiga "community"? What's that?
« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2002, 08:19:42 AM »
I just think Amiga Inc's silence is inexcusable.  Any company that wants to seek an alternative "desktop" market needs to adapt a grass-roots form of marketing.  Keeping quiet about all their operations is not the way to do that.  Even a simple "hello there" on their website would be a help at this point.

Since I want a new Amiga, and not some old hackbox held together with spackle, I don't see the community as a help OR a hinderance.  We need some confirmation that people are alive at Amiga Inc., and *once a product is released*, then we'll see how the community holds up.   :-)
 

  • Guest
Re: Amiga "community"? What's that?
« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2002, 10:07:22 AM »
Well I for one have sorta been interweaved in the Amiga subculture for sometime.  Hell, I remember seeing the Amiga in our schools tv broadcasting class.  Seeing the cool stuff in the Amiga magazines, and what not.  Then I remember reading about how Commodore was filing for bankurptecy, and at that time Apple was on the verge of filing too.  Some people I know said that the Amiga and Macintosh would into non-existance.

That was 1994, and I was 14.  Here I am 10 years later.  Apple rebounded and is now selling pretty expensive systems with limited software and such.  And the Amiga community.  Yes it's a community.  It's been lied too, and had empty promises shoved in it's face, yes.

But you know what. Back in 1997, I remember people at the bookstore looking at copies of Amiga magazine, (yes one of the was AF) and looking at pictures of themselves travelling to Amiga conventions.

Yes to this day the people still believe in the power of the Amiga...  ...Their "Friend"  No matter how rough the road, and what not.  The Amiga will stand in history as a computer that took all the conventions of computer history, and threw them out the window (or Windows.)  Jay Miner opened this book, and started to write a wonderful story.  I just think we should quit being so pissy and help him write the next chapter in history.
 

Offline MikeB

Re: Loosing faith in the Amiga "community", like so many before me
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2002, 10:35:37 AM »
To all the blind people here,

IMO nobody is completely "unbiased", you can only try too be as much as possible. The fact that someone currently even reviews/previews Amiga products must mean they have a history and opinion.

My MorphOS article was even *too positive* to be entirely unbiased. Anyone comparing their current product with MacOS X or Windows would slaughter it, because the product at this stage is too unstable, lacks compelling features and software support in general.

You guys seem too blind and *biased* to actually understand this.

Yes, I think AmigaOS4 is a good project, from my *AmigaOS fan* point of view, but I see a far greater future for intent personally. Believe me you will *not* find anyone completely unbiased anywhere!!!

I thought I *had* to mention MorphOS' legal status as people working on MorphOS products *have* made legal issues public (i.e. Fleecy's email). Afterwards Bill McEwen did clarify some of this with his public statements. IMO THESE CANNOT BE IGNORED! If Thendic-France didn't want to see this in the public, then they shouldn't have made this public.

Yes, I made a mistake with regard to *one* word, this has changed, I am only human, but I would have expected Bill and Raqual to ask kindly to change this word, if they thought this was needed. They did not, but instead, the choose a Matt Sealey, a person who has insulted me and many people I respect for too many times in the past, to make threats against me.

I have been very clear here, but certain people just seem to ignore the things I have written.

Well maybe many of you will make a great match for Matt and Ralph.

For me, I believe there is a complete lack of values within a very large group of the Amiga community. Without an understanding ear, values, trustfulness, tolerance and respect for eachother, what really makes us human?
 

  • Guest
Re: Loosing faith in the Amiga "community", like so many before me
« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2002, 10:41:16 AM »
I think you should stop saying Matt threatend you unless you can prove it with something... thats not right to do without proof.

I think what makes me human is my species.... :P
 

Offline MikeB

Re: Loosing faith in the Amiga "community", like so many before me
« Reply #49 on: October 14, 2002, 10:43:09 AM »
mips_proc, I have quoted him in my postings, what more do you want me to do, Mister GENIUS?

I mean human, figurely, as in terms of distinction between selfcentered, intolerant, disrespectful, beasts.
 

Offline DaveP

Re: Loosing faith in the Amiga "community", like so many before me
« Reply #50 on: October 14, 2002, 12:19:04 PM »
Mike

I thought you were heading off to aachen to re-evaluate. You have even
said goodbye a couple of times.

People will start to wonder if you are just crying wolf if you keep this up.

Best wishes

Dave
Hate figure. :lol:
 

Offline MikeB

Re: Loosing faith in the Amiga "community", like so many before me
« Reply #51 on: October 14, 2002, 12:29:16 PM »
DaveP, don't make such a stupid remark please.

What I said was true, I will re-evaluate if I continue contributing to this "community" after the Aachen show.

However, if people attack me, I may respond regardless if its on Atari.org, Amiga.org, OSNews.com or anywhere else. Is that so hard to understand? I have a feeling you guys are on a *totally* different frequency level.  :-o
 

Offline DaveP

Re: Loosing faith in the Amiga "community", like so many before me
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2002, 12:32:57 PM »
"DaveP don't make such a stupid remark please."

Wow how to win influence and befriend people by MikeB and
there was no need to be rude. But seeings you have set
the precendence:

Frankly you are coming across as a bit of a bleating mouthy
sanctimonious git ( welcome to the Amiga community ) just
about now.

I must have misread your three "goodbye" messages and misunderstood
the meaning of "goodbye" even though its definition in the
Oxford dictionary is pretty damn clear.

Perhaps you might want to repost yet a few more of your
duplicate messages on ANN and Amiga.org just to remind
us that you really have gone.
Hate figure. :lol:
 

Offline MikeB

Re: Loosing faith in the Amiga "community", like so many before me
« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2002, 12:40:17 PM »
DaveP, IMO your remark was somewhat rude and inconsiderate. My goodbyes, were meant as a positive ending, instead of saying nothing at all.

Somethings you can't understand by reading your Oxford dictionary.
 

Offline jtsiren

Re: Loosing faith in the Amiga "community", like so many before me
« Reply #54 on: October 14, 2002, 02:05:30 PM »
>My MorphOS article was even *too positive* to
>be entirely unbiased. Anyone comparing their
>current product with MacOS X or Windows would
>slaughter it, because the product at this stage is
>too unstable, lacks compelling features and
>software support in general.

Yes, I'm sure it would have. I too have seen MorphOS live. It had some neat apps, and it was fast, but even I could make it crash. I'm not sure how meaningful such a comparison would have been, but I'm sure a new-born beta operating system will have a hard time compared to proven technology with market success. However...

>Yes, I think AmigaOS4 is a good project, from my
>*AmigaOS fan* point of view, but I see a far greater
>future for intent personally.

Therein, I believe, lies at least my personal grievance as I pointed out above. AmigaOS 4 and AmigaDE, what we've seen of both, would be slaughtered just as well by a comparison to Windows or MacOS X. Yet you didn't acknowledge that, and still you went on supporting it in the article quite a bit more than you did the competition.

Even though MorphOS has a lot more to show of its progress at this time than AmigaOS 4 or AmigaDE combined. You seem quite eager to discuss the downsides of MorphOS here, yet I am yet to see any such comments concerning AmigaOS or AmigaDE. Is this because you honestly believe no such grievances exist, or because you "want to believe"?

Sure, intent is a nice piece of technology but in many ways that is as much a separate development as Java is - unless, of course, AmigaDE comes through in some huge way, but we have just about as little information or proof about that as we have of Thendic's eclipsis or related plans.

I firmly believe that if one wants to write an article from a "slaughtering point of view", one could easily and with merit do so for both of these products. It might not be entirely fair, but it would probably be pretty-much factual and representative of the huge uphill climbs these products face.

My point? Claiming you could do this for MorphOS and at the same time going on merrily talking about AmigaOS and AmigaDE like there hadn't been much trouble or lack of evident progress lately, is just a bit unfortunate in my opinion. I would very much hope you can see this issue in a constructive light.

So please, what ever you do, do not take this as a personal attack. I believe in discussing issues, and I hope to tackle these with you to reach a better common understanding. Maybe we can all learn something.

I ask you again, though. Do you consider Amiga Inc.'s accusations on MorphOS as FUD? Do they not distribute fear, uncertainty and doubt about a competing product? Have they been substantiated? And if you think so, or if not, why not? You seem to use the acronym FUD quite often.

>Believe me you will
>*not* find anyone completely unbiased anywhere!!!

I'm not saying they would. I'm sure we could find someone unbiased about this issue in particular, but then that person probably would also have to be completely ignorant and unknowledgeable about it. We all have our histories and biases. But I do believe you have a bias and originally didn't take too well people pointing it out.

I think most people complaining really didn't have a problem with your MorphOS article as such, though. It is, as I said, pretty restrained in this regard and we welcome it. Thank you. However, one doesn't need to go any further than read your comments about AmigaOS and AmigaDE in an earlier article and compare them to the MorphOS article and see a huge difference that is not based on technology comparison, but a simple difference in approach.

Well, even you acknowledge that you are an "AmigaOS fan" and not a "MorphOS fan" and unfortunately this is a little too evident in your articles. The first concludes with calls for help and tributing Amiga Club members, while the latter is far more technical in nature. I would personally prefer if your future articles would all be more like the MorphOS article. It was written more like a news piece than a column.

Having said that, that is probably pretty hard considering that most developments from Amiga can not be tested yet like MorphOS can.

P.S. I personally know the difficulty of writing objectively about a product which one really fancies. I've been down that difficult road myself in the late 90s covering Amiga to a local magazine. I'm sure I made my share of mistakes as well. It is difficult and I sympathize. But I do still strongly believe people have legitimate grievances in this discussion and that you could do well by listening.

Thank you for your attention.
 

  • Guest
Re: Loosing faith in the Amiga "community", like so many before me
« Reply #55 on: October 14, 2002, 02:32:07 PM »
MikeB your response to dave simply pointing out that you've said goodbye yet havent left...shows your maturity...a 'posative' ending by starting a flamewar huh?... very mature...

I used to read and take what you said semi-seriousely (as much i can any zealots writings)..I didnt even mind your MorphOS review (albiet definitly biased against it)...but you've shown in this thread...and in general by going around whining about how Neko called you a name...and such...claiming people made threats to you yet not backing it up...that you're over sensative and that you're childish...I've seen you dish criticizm before yet you dont take it very well...that to me is one of the worst combinations.... I insult people sometimes i know i do...when i'm insulted i'm rarely rattled enough to 'run away' from it... as you are from the community....and i think that the first thing you need to do is get thicker skin... if you think getting flamed for OS4 bias is a big deal... try TOS .v. Windows... those Atari zealots make the amiga community look like kids play and i have the feeling when you bump heads with them...unless you've got heavier armor you're gonna wind up running away again.
 

Offline DaveP

Re: Loosing faith in the Amiga "community", like so many before me
« Reply #56 on: October 14, 2002, 03:13:25 PM »
Mike

Rude and inconsiderate? What should I have been considering?

I was attempting to give you friendly advice although perhaps it
would have been less embarrassing to you via an e-mail.

Not understanding the meaning of "Goodbye", really Mike!! it sounds
like you are trying weasel your way around the issue.

To me at least your multiple "goodbye"s, your cross posting to ANN
consistantly and your reaction to my advice has dented your
credibility yet further.

It seems to me there are like few people left in the Amiga community
I have any affinity with perhaps Bill Hoggett, Bobson, Coder, Wayne,
Redrumloa, Seehund and a very few more.

This "community" is officially a bloody shambles.

Dave.
Hate figure. :lol:
 

Offline MikeB

Re: Loosing faith in the Amiga "community", like so many before me
« Reply #57 on: October 14, 2002, 04:01:37 PM »
> This "community" is officially a bloody shambles.

I agree.

It bothers me too much, that we have alot of criminals and FUD/misinformation spreaders among this "community". At least that's why I snapped and leaves me with a very negative humour.

And note that most of the people you named aren't unbiased as well. In fact IMO nobody is completely unbiased, with the likely exception of infants.
 

Offline DaveP

Re: Loosing faith in the Amiga "community", like so many before me
« Reply #58 on: October 14, 2002, 04:05:01 PM »
Mike

I really don't care if you are biased or not. I think it is ludicrous to
suggest that any one person can be unbiased. However
I do think documents can become less biased to the point
where the bias is imperceptable given sufficient input.

My problem was never that you or your article was not unbiased.

Dave.
Hate figure. :lol:
 

Offline MikeB

Re: Loosing faith in the Amiga "community", like so many before me
« Reply #59 on: October 14, 2002, 04:14:16 PM »
jtsiren wrote:

> I firmly believe that if one wants to write an article
> from a "slaughtering point of view", one could
> easily and with merit do so for both of these
> products

Agreed. Note, that I did not slaughter MorphOS neither AmigaOS4 in my articles, I only said it was easy if someone with a MacOS X or Windows perspective would want to do so. Also note that I have pointed out these disadvantages in my Amiga articles as well.

> I'm sure we could find someone unbiased about
> this issue in particular

I believe you are wrong. Currently only one who would want to do an in depth review or preview are people who have experience with the platform.

Even if there were people without any experience they would still be biased. As for instance they have been using Windows or MacOS. And if they haven't used computers at all they would most likely still be biased, maybe they view computers as useless and so forth.