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AuthorTopic: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution  (Read 6888 times)

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Offline adolescent

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #150 on: November 02, 2005, 09:04:35 PM »
 
Quote

lou_dias wrote:
wow for once you posted something meaningful instead of spitting out "prove it" blurge at me...


I've just grown tired of correcting your errant fan-boy "facts".  And, since you've never actually proved anything I've stopped asking.  

Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #151 on: November 02, 2005, 10:25:41 PM »
Yes.
Deny, deny, deny is always the best defense when you have nothing meaningful to say.
 

Offline coldfish

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #152 on: November 03, 2005, 02:44:49 AM »
by Waccoon on 2005/11/1 19:00:09:
I got my Mac mini on eBay for $335, and it's a full computer with 256MB or RAM and a real PPC

Hey Waccoon, I have a Mac-Mini too.  Bump that RAM upto 512MB and you'll notice a sizable performance boost.

Apple have started selling them with 512MB standard.

All the best!



 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #153 on: November 03, 2005, 03:45:05 AM »
Yes he can buy a Mac-Mini on ebay and that's OK but buying a Gamecube on eBay for 1/10 that price isn't.  I wonder if it's hit him yet that Apple is going Intel next year?

Oh my, and installing OS 4 on that would also void his warranty.

Oh and when my 'Cube didn't turn on when I didn't solder my mod chip's power cable correctly.  I soldered it to a more convenient location and  - shock! horror! - it worked fine.
 

Offline coldfish

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #154 on: November 03, 2005, 07:01:18 AM »
For one thing Apple arent going wholey and soley Intel, just some segments of their product line.  Support will exist for present lines for quite sometime yet, and cross compatability has always been the long-term objective.

With the 'mini, why bother with OS4 when you have OSX?  

I understand the fun aspect of using the 'cube as a hobby box, and hats-off for being inquisitive and exploring, but it really isn't the solution to next-gen Amiga computing.
 

Offline Waccoon

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #155 on: November 03, 2005, 11:18:35 AM »
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MskoDestny:  I can't say I have a lot of respect for that article when it claims the 360 has 6 processor cores when it only has 3.

I've heard worse.  Now is hardly the time to post lots of specs on the next-gen consoles.

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Lou:  People tout the PS3's SPU's for physics (and sound as there is no dedicated sound chip). It's process is in charge of managing those SPU's in addition to running PPC code.

Which is largely handled by the OS and dev tools.

Interesting how you suggested that Revolution could have a physics processor with 32MB of RAM, unaware that this would give you the same programming challenges as the PS3.  Of course, Nintendo is smart enough to handle these challenges, and Sony and Microsoft are not.

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Lou:  You are going off topic. If you want to talk about a Gamecube as an OS4 platform, go to my thread or the Hyperion news post.

Oh, this is hillarious.  Remember when, in the middle of your PPC Amiga Real Cheap thread, you started arguing about whether the Game Boy Player was an emulator or not?  Yeah, let's diversify the thread even more by bringing other Nintendo products into play (based on ARM processors, no less).

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Lou:  These specs come from developers...and I've seen similar specs in a printed magazine.

Which one?  What were their sources?

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Lou:  I don't see them coming out with a slower GPU than the Xbox because it's coming out almost 9 moths later.

Even though the price points are different?

Didn't Nintendo already conceed that Revolution will be less powerful than XBox 360?

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Lou:  Deny, deny, deny is always the best defense when you have nothing meaningful to say.

Or in your case, ignore, ignore, ignore.  You seem to be giving fewer and fewer rebuttals when people point out problems in your technical explanations, such as with the branch prediction issue.  Oh, you'd like to forget that altogether and start up a new argument about how memory is handled in Revolution, which is more difficult to prove, in either direction, at this point in time.

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Lou:  Yes he can buy a Mac-Mini on ebay and that's OK but buying a Gamecube on eBay for 1/10 that price isn't.

If Gamecube is to be used as an officialy licensed platform for OS4, as you pointed out in that other thread, you wouldn't be able to make a system yourself from eBay parts.  Also, if you remember, some of the prices you listed were for the cost a used hardware, such as your build price that included a $60 Gamecube.

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Lou:  Oh and when my 'Cube didn't turn on when I didn't solder my mod chip's power cable correctly. I soldered it to a more convenient location and - shock! horror! - it worked fine.

You're lucky.  Amigans have been working with frankenstein solutions for so long, I'd think they would be looking for a platform where modding isn't required.

I found it amusing when you said you would return the Gamecube to Wal-Mart to get a replacement if you couldn't get it working again.  So much for worrying about the warranty.  :-)

But, hey, if you break your Gamecube, it's cheap to replace, isn't it?

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coldfish:  With the 'mini, why bother with OS4 when you have OSX?

Curiosity.  OS X has been a mixed bag so far.  I won't get into any more detail, lest Lou yells at me for getting off topic.

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coldfish:  I understand the fun aspect of using the 'cube as a hobby box, and hats-off for being inquisitive and exploring, but it really isn't the solution to next-gen Amiga computing.

My biggest problem with Lou in that "other" thread, is that he was touting the machine as a next-gen system to run OS4.  As the bad comments began to roll in, he changed his argument to suggest that it would be an improvement over the classic line of Amigas, and could run AROS, which already runs on very cheap and diverse PC hardware.  However, he still compares the price of a modded Gamecube you have to build yourself to a brand new AmigaOne.  Obviously, not a very fair technical or functional comparrison by any means.
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #156 on: November 03, 2005, 12:48:07 PM »
Quote
Quote
Lou:  People tout the PS3's SPU's for physics (and sound as there is no dedicated sound chip). It's process is in charge of managing those SPU's in addition to running PPC code.

Which is largely handled by the OS and dev tools.


These are consoles.  There is no OS and 1st gen dev tools are usually incomplete or not yet optimized.

Quote
Interesting how you suggested that Revolution could have a physics processor with 32MB of RAM, unaware that this would give you the same programming challenges as the PS3.  Of course, Nintendo is smart enough to handle these challenges, and Sony and Microsoft are not.


If you read what the PPC core in the cell is doing, it is managing what instruction get sent to what cores.  That is one task Revolution's cpu won't have to worry about.  Hitting a dedicated chip with it's own memory bank to execute from requires no resources once the memory has been moved to that bank.  It's not about programming challenges but about cpu time.

Quote
Quote
Lou:  You are going off topic. If you want to talk about a Gamecube as an OS4 platform, go to my thread or the Hyperion news post.

Oh, this is hillarious.  Remember when, in the middle of your PPC Amiga Real Cheap thread, you started arguing about whether the Game Boy Player was an emulator or not?  Yeah, let's diversify the thread even more by bringing other Nintendo products into play (based on ARM processors, no less).


yes, take things off topic of this thread.
that started with a discussion about creating an IDE interface that used the high speed parralel port just like the GBA player did

Quote
Quote
Lou:  These specs come from developers...and I've seen similar specs in a printed magazine.

Which one?  What were their sources?


Electronic Gaming Monthly in print coming from "off-the-record" developers like the arstechnia article did

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Quote
Lou:  I don't see them coming out with a slower GPU than the Xbox because it's coming out almost 9 moths later.

Even though the price points are different?


You think the price difference is going to come from one individual component?

Quote
Didn't Nintendo already conceed that Revolution will be less powerful than XBox 360?


Yes and as I said before, on paper a 3-core or single with 7 spu cored cpu @ 3.2GHz will outperform a 2.5 GHz cpu.  So buy one of those and be happy.

Quote
Quote
Lou:  Deny, deny, deny is always the best defense when you have nothing meaningful to say.

Or in your case, ignore, ignore, ignore.  You seem to be giving fewer and fewer rebuttals when people point out problems in your technical explanations, such as with the branch prediction issue.  Oh, you'd like to forget that altogether and start up a new argument about how memory is handled in Revolution, which is more difficult to prove, in either direction, at this point in time.


When there is more information to be said it will be.  But you coming here and personally attacking every statement I make is what makes you exactly what I say you are.

Quote
Quote
Lou:  Yes he can buy a Mac-Mini on ebay and that's OK but buying a Gamecube on eBay for 1/10 that price isn't.

If Gamecube is to be used as an officialy licensed platform for OS4, as you pointed out in that other thread, you wouldn't be able to make a system yourself from eBay parts.  Also, if you remember, some of the prices you listed were for the cost a used hardware, such as your build price that included a $60 Gamecube.


The $60 price is from Electronics Boutique/Game Stop.  you can get them on Ebay for much less.  Yes and that makes it as useless as your $335 mac mini, right?  You bash me for quoting prices on ebay, then tout how you buy a computer on ebay.  A bit hypocritical if you ask me.

Quote
Quote
Lou:  Oh and when my 'Cube didn't turn on when I didn't solder my mod chip's power cable correctly. I soldered it to a more convenient location and - shock! horror! - it worked fine.

You're lucky.  Amigans have been working with frankenstein solutions for so long, I'd think they would be looking for a platform where modding isn't required.

I found it amusing when you said you would return the Gamecube to Wal-Mart to get a replacement if you couldn't get it working again.  So much for worrying about the warranty.  :-)

But, hey, if you break your Gamecube, it's cheap to replace, isn't it?


Yes it is.   I'm not looking to make Nintendo a profit.  I'm just looking to use it for my own purposes.  You have a problem with that...oh well.

Quote
Quote
coldfish:  With the 'mini, why bother with OS4 when you have OSX?

Curiosity.  OS X has been a mixed bag so far.  I won't get into any more detail, lest Lou yells at me for getting off topic.


Curiosity?  Could that be the same reason I'd like to see an Amiga OS on Gamecube?

Oh and when you mentioned other potenital platforms in my thread, I called them off-topic because they either weren't PPC or weren't cheap.  Just to set the record straight.

Quote
Quote
coldfish:  I understand the fun aspect of using the 'cube as a hobby box, and hats-off for being inquisitive and exploring, but it really isn't the solution to next-gen Amiga computing.

My biggest problem with Lou in that "other" thread, is that he was touting the machine as a next-gen system to run OS4.  As the bad comments began to roll in, he changed his argument to suggest that it would be an improvement over the classic line of Amigas, and could run AROS, which already runs on very cheap and diverse PC hardware.  However, he still compares the price of a modded Gamecube you have to build yourself to a brand new AmigaOne.  Obviously, not a very fair technical or functional comparrison by any means.


Your real problem is that your sole existance for posting on this site is to attack even the most obscure points of any statement I make.  You really need to leave the sticks of Bellingham more often.

In my thread, I always said I would prefer a licensed product.  A licensed product that could include an inexpensive addon (though if Eyetech make it, it would cost as much as an A1) similar to the Gameboy Player that gave you the intefaces the GC naturally lacks such as USB or IDE.

I love how you take individual comments and regurgitate them out of context (and out of topic for this thread) to paint your skewed picture of me here.  You put words in my mouth saying I have a problem with 360 or PS3 developers.  I said no such thing.  Articles I and others have posted clearly state that optimizing 3rd party software that will be released on all machines will not happen.  Only exclusive titles will have optimization at first.

Now people can see why right away in this thread I called you an I.A.C. - I already knew what you were trying to do.  You want to critisize my AOS on GC idea, do it on my thread.  The topic here is PS3 - XBox 360 - Revolution.  By the way, as these are PPC platforms they are "on-topic" in my thread.  However, I don't consider the 360 and PS3 as absolutely affordable for the sake of installing a hobbyist OS...word's still out on Revolution.

And that's what you don't understand.  If people want to shell out $500-$1000, they want to get their money's worth.  No one is going to do that for something unproved like OS4.  $200 - maybe, $500 - not worth it.  So as getting the GC to be a computer is a hobby and can be done inexpensively, that is the main point of my thread.  This is further made a possibility by Hyperion's own statements on the new website.

When I first started that thread, it was just an idea.

JUST AN IDEA

Then the idea was attacked right away by trolls such as you.  I did some research and over time came up with possibilities and solutions to counteract most of the criticisms.  In the end, I believe I have succeeded.

I went out bought some good CHEAP parts:
$12 ps/2 keyboard adapter for Gamecube (new from ebay)
$50 mod chip (qoob Pro, new from www.modchipworld.com )
$23 broad band adapter (used on ebay)

and installed Linux on my Gamecube.  Nobody paid me to do it.  I am not trying to make money from it.  I did it just to say "if this can work why not some form of AOS?"

I also went out and bought a Super Smash Bothers bundled Gamecube.  Why?  Because I wanted Super Smash Bros Melee and knew that my Rev A Gamecube was worth more than the one included in the bundle.  If I messed up that, I could always return it.  You can knock me for that, whatever, it's just plain smart shopping.  So take out the cost of a game I wanted to buy anyway (as it's the #1 selling game on the Gamecube - period) and a new Gamecube cost me $79.

$164 total for a "hobby" is something I didn't mind doing.  If I had to spend much more than that - would it have been worth it?  If I had bought an A1, I'd have a $1000 PPC Linux system.  I'd much rather have a $164 PPC Linux system.

By the way, in my thread, I asked if you were a descent solderer and asked to you come by and install my mod chip for me.  You declined.  Now, are you going to say I have no proof that Linux is able to run on one of my Gamecubes because you've never seen it?  You can take the 40 minute drive from Bellingham to Fall River and I will boot into Linux for you in the 5 seconds that it takes from the time I turn on my Gamecube.
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #157 on: November 04, 2005, 11:11:57 PM »
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001393147

Interesting comments from Sony CEO.
Looks like they want to control your livingroom more than MS does. Also PS3 won't see US shelves for a year...but March in Japan.

Reggie talks Nintendo's future: http://cube.ign.com/articles/664/664495p1.html
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #158 on: November 11, 2005, 12:16:36 AM »
http://theconsolewars.blogspot.com/2005/11/can-xbox-360-pull-180-in-japan.html

360 poised to do better in Japan

Interesting sales figures for original XBOX in Japan that contradict unfounded claims by a certain poster on this in this thread who always dares me to provide proof but never feels the need to himself.

interesting read:
http://www.nintendorevolution.ca/11072005/09/montreal_and_the_revolution

source of the leaked specs of Revolution:
http://theconsolewars.blogspot.com/2005/09/han-solo-smuggles-revolution.html

Revolution will have Resident Evil 5
http://theconsolewars.blogspot.com/2005/09/revolution-will-have-resident-evil-5.html
 

Offline koaftder

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #159 on: November 11, 2005, 04:16:59 AM »
Quote

lou_dias wrote:
http://theconsolewars.blogspot.com/2005/11/can-xbox-360-pull-180-in-japan.html

360 poised to do better in Japan

Interesting sales figures for original XBOX in Japan that contradict unfounded claims by a certain poster on this in this thread who always dares me to provide proof but never feels the need to himself.

interesting read:
http://www.nintendorevolution.ca/11072005/09/montreal_and_the_revolution

source of the leaked specs of Revolution:
http://theconsolewars.blogspot.com/2005/09/han-solo-smuggles-revolution.html

Revolution will have Resident Evil 5
http://theconsolewars.blogspot.com/2005/09/revolution-will-have-resident-evil-5.html


Dude, you seriously need to put down the controller.
 

Offline adolescent

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #160 on: November 11, 2005, 04:57:09 AM »
For those that don't want to wait for a game that hasn't been announced, on a system that doesn't have finalized specs, here are some preliminary pics of Resident Evil 5 on the Xbox 360.  Of course, no release dates so far for this or the PS3.



Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #161 on: November 11, 2005, 04:58:35 PM »
@koaftder

Well, when I get called a liar like this:

Quote

adolescent wrote:
Quote

lou_dias wrote:
About market size in Japan.  No one has bought an Xbox as the 360 is around the corner...but noone has ever really bought an XBOX in Japan.  Ever.  Didn't they break 100k units sold only this year?  And that's in 4 years of sales.


More "bullpoo" from you.  The Xbox has broken 100k units in Japan every year except 2004.  If you include the rest of Asia then the number is higher.


Then find this: http://theconsolewars.blogspot.com/2005/11/can-xbox-360-pull-180-in-japan.html
Quote
Just a controller's throw from the pricey, upscale shops of Harajuku, the Lounge is part of Microsoft's effort to drive sales of the upcoming Xbox 360 in Japan, a market where its predecessor was humiliated. In 2002, Microsoft's Xbox (released in late February) sold 327,699 units in Japan. That same year, Sony's PS2 moved a whopping 3.7 million units. In terms of software market share, Xbox tallied a measly 0.5 percent, compared to 55.2 percent for PS2 and 12.4 percent for Gamecube. Even Sega's flagging Dreamcast outpaced Xbox, earning 0.8 percent of the software market. And things only went downhill from there. In 2003, Xbox sold about 97,000 units – only marginally better than the ancient PSOne (61,000) and JVC's WonderSwan Crystal (47,000). In 2004, that number dropped to about 40,000 – or, just 10,000 more than Nintendo's non-SP Game Boy Advance. Over this three-year period, Microsoft sold roughly 464,000 units in Japan, compared to 9.2 million for PS2 and 2.59 million for GameCube. It's no wonder that not a single Xbox game has ever managed to crack the Japanese yearly top 50.


I asked a question based on what I thought and got answered with an outright lie.  Meanwhile, I'm the only one that needs to justify what I say...go figure...

other than that, my post was quite on topic, so what is your issue with me posting now?
 

Offline adolescent

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #162 on: November 11, 2005, 05:27:52 PM »
@lou

I stand corrected.  The source that I had, Famitsu magazine, showed the Xbox at slightly over 100k for 2003.  
Time to move on.  Bye Amiga.org.  :(
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #163 on: November 11, 2005, 05:30:07 PM »
and I'll concede that Xbox AVERAGED over 100k sales over the course of 4 years.

ps,
I hope the same added anti-aliasing effects happening on the HALO 1 + 2 so-called "emulation" happen with Gamecube emulation on Revolution...Resident Evil 4 is butt ugly (pixellated) in progressive scan mode on the GC...Metroid Prime 1+2 easily have the best graphics on that machine...
 

Offline Louis Dias

Re: PS3 - X-Box 360 - Nintendo Revolution
« Reply #164 on: November 12, 2005, 05:04:29 AM »
Official XBOX recomp...oops "backwards compatability" list:

Quote
Note: A software emulator is required for each original Xbox game you play on your Xbox 360™ console. Please check back for more details as we approach the launch date.


http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/backwardcompatibilitygameslist.htm

Bigger than I thought...but then again didn't Hyperion write a modest x86 emulator for inclusion in the A1 BIOS in like 800k?

Gee, if they were really emulating the hardware, would a separate "emulator" be needed for each individual game?

One company has gone on record to handing MS their source code.

Also Mark Rein of Epic Games "clarifies" his statements about Revolution's controller etc...
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=61668