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AuthorTopic: TeamAROS Bounty #23 AROS Kickstart Replacement ROM  (Read 7105 times)

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Offline jdiffend

Re: TeamAROS Bounty #23 AROS Kickstart Replacement ROM
« Reply #60 on: January 06, 2005, 05:23:45 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:

That's not quite true, great care has been taken to make sure that the AROS code rommable, in fact this requirement has (and still is) causing quite a few headaches :-D

I suggest you look at the x86 Native flavour as that has the AROS kernel loaded into RAM which is then protected and treated as ROM.

-Edit- Porting Openfirmware to the Amiga would be a brilliant and very popular idea though!!!


Rommable yes... but what size ROM and on what hardware?  You've been working without space limitations and initial hardware testing/setup issues at the lowest level.  You also operate on the assumption you have some sort of output device.

I suggest you look at the liberal use of kprintf (for starters) for error reporting when no device may be available from printing.

The messages you have in kprintf statements may be easier to follow than guru numbers but they suck ROM space and you can't assume you have hardware to display them when bootstrapping hardware from scratch.

PC motherboards now have LEDS that display different patterns as the PC goes through the startup and it beeps patterns to diagnose problems.
On the AmigaOS, it flashes the LED and displays different screen colors and uses guru numbers if possible (they can be found in memory if they aren't displayable).

Notice on these that only errors are reported... if everythings fine the OS just goes about it's business and you don't really notice.

What about if I want to use AROS for an MP3 player?  An embedded OS can't make assumptions about the availability of a display (let alone the size of it) or even a serial port for messages.  The error messages don't have a corresponding code.subcode where code is lib or device and subcode is section that can be used to flash an LED or be placed at a reserved address and they can't be turned off in the compile so they take up space even if you can't use them.  They aren't even stored in a packed byte or compressed form to save space.
 
My suggestion would be to change the messages to codes or change kprintfs to have text AND code and use a macro or template for kprintf so that you could select which to include at compile time.  And the kprintf routine could be adjusted accordingly to the host it works on.

At the very least the number of messages requires some sort of way to compress them conserve space.  Possibly storing them 4 bits / character.

If you want to build an AmigaOS 3.1 like ROM you have to design it that way from the start.  The AROS team didn't set the same design restrictions Amiga did and it shows.  Amiga Inc. origianally only had 256K for their ROM and that included a lot of stuff!  But they didn't waste it either.

 

  • Guest
Re: TeamAROS Bounty #23 AROS Kickstart Replacement ROM
« Reply #61 on: January 06, 2005, 07:20:17 PM »
Quote
If you want to build an AmigaOS 3.1 like ROM you have to design it that way from the start. The AROS team didn't set the same design restrictions Amiga did and it shows. Amiga Inc. origianally only had 256K for their ROM and that included a lot of stuff! But they didn't waste it either.


Let's not beat about the bush then.

In your expert opinion, is it possible in a moderately short space of time (say 3 months?), to create a kickstart rom for UAE (modifying the UAE source if needed) that would boot AROS 68k from an ADF or HDF?

If the short answer is yes, then question number 2 would be:-

Are you willing to do it? :-D
 

Offline Hattig

Re: TeamAROS Bounty #23 AROS Kickstart Replacement ROM
« Reply #62 on: January 07, 2005, 12:33:43 AM »
I think that this bounty should be able creating a replacement ROM image for Amiga emulators, so that they can be shipped legally without any requirement to 'source' Amiga Kickstart ROM images. That would give you 1MB to play about with, which might give the project some hope even considering the fact that it will be compiled C, and a pretty 16 colour logo with 'bounce' drop down effect (:p) will be an essential requirement! hah

Then Wanderer only needs to implement useful things, then later binary compatibility with classic 68k applications!

Still, regardless, good luck.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: TeamAROS Bounty #23 AROS Kickstart Replacement ROM
« Reply #63 on: January 07, 2005, 10:56:11 AM »
Quote

Hattig wrote:
I think that this bounty should be able creating a replacement ROM image for Amiga emulators, so that they can be shipped legally without any requirement to 'source' Amiga Kickstart ROM images. That would give you 1MB to play about with, which might give the project some hope even considering the fact that it will be compiled C, and a pretty 16 colour logo with 'bounce' drop down effect (:p) will be an essential requirement! hah


I fully agree, I think it should target UAE first... Real Amiga later :-)

Offline dammy

Re: TeamAROS Bounty #23 AROS Kickstart Replacement ROM
« Reply #64 on: January 07, 2005, 12:51:53 PM »
It would be pretty funny if WB 4 and onwards were based on AROS and created by the Community instead of KMOS.

Dammy
TeamAROS
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: TeamAROS Bounty #23 AROS Kickstart Replacement ROM
« Reply #65 on: January 07, 2005, 12:53:23 PM »
Quote

dammy wrote:
It would be pretty funny if WB 4 and onwards were based on AROS and created by the Community instead of KMOS.

Dammy
TeamAROS


Did you say funny or inevitable ;-)

  • Guest
Re: TeamAROS Bounty #23 AROS Kickstart Replacement ROM
« Reply #66 on: January 07, 2005, 01:13:05 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

dammy wrote:
It would be pretty funny if WB 4 and onwards were based on AROS and created by the Community instead of KMOS.

Dammy
TeamAROS


Did you say funny or inevitable ;-)


AROS and MorphOS are inferior to OS4 apparently.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1994%3Ca%20class=
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: TeamAROS Bounty #23 AROS Kickstart Replacement ROM
« Reply #67 on: January 07, 2005, 01:23:31 PM »
Quote

mdma wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:
Quote

dammy wrote:
It would be pretty funny if WB 4 and onwards were based on AROS and created by the Community instead of KMOS.

Dammy
TeamAROS


Did you say funny or inevitable ;-)


AROS and MorphOS are inferior to OS4 apparently.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1994%3Ca%20class=


Thats good know :roll:

Offline jdiffend

Re: TeamAROS Bounty #23 AROS Kickstart Replacement ROM
« Reply #68 on: January 07, 2005, 04:36:02 PM »
Quote

mdma wrote:

Let's not beat about the bush then.

In your expert opinion, is it possible in a moderately short space of time (say 3 months?), to create a kickstart rom for UAE (modifying the UAE source if needed) that would boot AROS 68k from an ADF or HDF?

If the short answer is yes, then question number 2 would be:-

Are you willing to do it? :-D

IF the 68K compiler and linker doesn't cause issues in generating the ROM and AROS isn't filled with endian issues that is a reasonable timeline for someone with the time.

Am I willing to do it?  Tell you what, my time has a tendancy to come and go... a bit beyond by control.  So... what I'm going to do is work towards the goal.  I can't say I'll do everything but I will at least make sure any source I generate will be made available and I'll try to document anything I see that needs done.

Here is what I plan to do:
I'm going to work on the nasty low level bootstrap portion, the compiler/build issues for 68K, ROM file generation, display boot logo (I already have code somewhere that should make this easy and even a little cool), some hardware drivers and documentation.

All that is needed anyway and if I have time and things go smoothly I can just keep on working from there.

Once I make a little progress I'll make everything available to the AROS team.
 

Offline jdiffend

Re: TeamAROS Bounty #23 AROS Kickstart Replacement ROM
« Reply #69 on: January 07, 2005, 04:46:05 PM »
Quote

Hattig wrote:
I think that this bounty should be able creating a replacement ROM image for Amiga emulators, so that they can be shipped legally without any requirement to 'source' Amiga Kickstart ROM images.


I agree... and over time as it's made to run more AmigaOS apps they really can't say AROS has no software available.  It would be nice if a few old developers would release AROS versions but I won't hold my breath.

Quote
That would give you 1MB to play about with, which might give the project some hope even considering the fact that it will be compiled C, and a pretty 16 colour logo with 'bounce' drop down effect (:p) will be an essential requirement! hah

Uh, would a fade in/out suffice for now?  That's a lot easier and I should still have the code.

Quote

Then Wanderer only needs to implement useful things, then later binary compatibility with classic 68k applications!

Still, regardless, good luck.

Binary compatibility is something people really need to discuss NOW before there are a bunch of programs that aren't.  There needs to be a plan, a design... something before it happens.
 

  • Guest
Re: TeamAROS Bounty #23 AROS Kickstart Replacement ROM
« Reply #70 on: January 07, 2005, 09:15:09 PM »
Quote

jdiffend wrote:
Quote

mdma wrote:

Let's not beat about the bush then.

In your expert opinion, is it possible in a moderately short space of time (say 3 months?), to create a kickstart rom for UAE (modifying the UAE source if needed) that would boot AROS 68k from an ADF or HDF?

If the short answer is yes, then question number 2 would be:-

Are you willing to do it? :-D

IF the 68K compiler and linker doesn't cause issues in generating the ROM and AROS isn't filled with endian issues that is a reasonable timeline for someone with the time.

Am I willing to do it?  Tell you what, my time has a tendancy to come and go... a bit beyond by control.  So... what I'm going to do is work towards the goal.  I can't say I'll do everything but I will at least make sure any source I generate will be made available and I'll try to document anything I see that needs done.

Here is what I plan to do:
I'm going to work on the nasty low level bootstrap portion, the compiler/build issues for 68K, ROM file generation, display boot logo (I already have code somewhere that should make this easy and even a little cool), some hardware drivers and documentation.

All that is needed anyway and if I have time and things go smoothly I can just keep on working from there.

Once I make a little progress I'll make everything available to the AROS team.


Great news!

Thank you for donating your time and brains towards making this possible.  I wish you luck. :pint:
 

  • Guest
Re: TeamAROS Bounty #23 AROS Kickstart Replacement ROM
« Reply #71 on: January 07, 2005, 09:18:55 PM »
Quote
Uh, would a fade in/out suffice for now? That's a lot easier and I should still have the code.


No, we want a scaled bitmap rotating effect, coupled with double sinus scrollers and a chiptune! ;-)
 

Offline jdiffend

Re: TeamAROS Bounty #23 AROS Kickstart Replacement ROM
« Reply #72 on: January 07, 2005, 09:36:37 PM »
Quote

mdma wrote:
Quote
Uh, would a fade in/out suffice for now? That's a lot easier and I should still have the code.


No, we want a scaled bitmap rotating effect, coupled with double sinus scrollers and a chiptune! ;-)


I guess I could continually scroll the message "You could have had a bootable AROS ROM but NOOOOOoooo... you were too pickey.   Now you get nothing!" along the botton of the screen.   :-o

 :-D
 

  • Guest
Re: TeamAROS Bounty #23 AROS Kickstart Replacement ROM
« Reply #73 on: January 08, 2005, 12:06:53 AM »
Quote

jdiffend wrote:
Quote

mdma wrote:
Quote
Uh, would a fade in/out suffice for now? That's a lot easier and I should still have the code.


No, we want a scaled bitmap rotating effect, coupled with double sinus scrollers and a chiptune! ;-)


I guess I could continually scroll the message "You could have had a bootable AROS ROM but NOOOOOoooo... you were too pickey.   Now you get nothing!" along the botton of the screen.   :-o

 :-D


:lol:

We could set up a bounty to get the intro done in 4k! :-P

With the Ocean Loader music too! ;-)
 

Offline jdiffend

Re: TeamAROS Bounty #23 AROS Kickstart Replacement ROM
« Reply #74 on: January 08, 2005, 05:45:50 AM »
Quote
mdma wrote:

:lol:

We could set up a bounty to get the intro done in 4k! :-P

With the Ocean Loader music too! ;-)


I'm not even sure the AROS Logo posted will fit in 4K!  LOL