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AuthorTopic: FYI: Grass not so green on the other side  (Read 3470 times)

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Offline DaveP

FYI: Grass not so green on the other side
« on: February 10, 2003, 06:10:12 PM »
Pegasos/MorphOS - Almighty Row Breaks Out

Im not sure I posted this under the right topic.

Read it through folks and come to your own conclusions. Please don't bring the flamewar here
but just be aware that it is going on. Consider it
an FYI.

Im sure there is a rational explanation for all of this.
Hate figure. :lol:
 

Offline DaveP

Re: FYI: Grass not so green on the other side
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2003, 06:17:07 PM »
I thought this comment from ADMV about sums
up the situation:

Quote

I did add this comment earlier but its disappeared along with the thread.

Anyway.

To cut to the chase.

Would I spend a year developing, testing, beta testing and then going through the expensive hardware costs without making sure my suppliers could supply the parts?
Errr... No

Would I spend the time hawking myself round all the news groups, news sites, and 'amiga' sphere type locations bragging and making claims about what I am about to produce only to produce zip. zero. nado. nothing.(ok, a number of beta boards, test boards, review boards..) Not only that, I make sure I muddy the waters enough that not only do I cock up my stuff, I bring enough FUD to the party that anyone else working in the same sphere is at least partially affected.

Errr no..

Would I then go down the road of allowing people to pre-order or get involved in long drawn out flame wars with prospective or possible customers over supply shortages, especially after having everyone on my team brag about the vast resources available and that there will 'be no problem'.

Errr..no

Would I behave like this if I were a CEO.

Errr .. no

I do not know the full picture regarding Articia chipset shipments, lost production, lawsuits, falling out with suppliers, making new enemies, and I suspect only those on the inside track actually know whats going on.

Nor do I care. The likely hood of me purchasing anything PPC from *Anyone* in the amiga sphere always was close to nill. But the antics just go from bad to worse.

To some degree I kind of hope you all go out of business, just so that we get some peace and quiet.

And please please please, don't buy any amiga parts on 'pre-orders' or by dubious methods. Make sure you have your consumer protection, and preferrabley make sure you can actually purchase the goods at the time of purchase and not by some mail order antics.

There should be a new methodology carried forward by 'amiga' people buying 'amiga' goods.

'TRUST NO ONE.'

AdmV

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Hate figure. :lol:
 

Offline downix

Re: FYI: Grass not so green on the other side
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2003, 06:33:18 PM »
A business that sends boards to customers that don't pay for them goes out of business, that's the rational explination for this.
Try blazedmongers new Free Universal Computer kit, available with the GUI toolkit Your Own Universe, the popular IT edition, Extremely Reliable System for embedded work, Enhanced Database development and Wide Area Development system for telecommuting.
 

Offline MarkTime

Re: FYI: Grass not so green on the other side
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2003, 07:44:26 PM »
@DaveP

I like the post too.
Especially, because the poster re-iterates the concept of being a 'good consumer'.

This market needs more savvy consumers.  Right now, with the boards in limited supply, they are still going at unsustainable and ridiculously high prices.
Those who can't wait, are going to get bit for several hundred dollars....

It's one thing if you can't wait, if I was a developer, I would certainly spend 300-400 dollars too much on a board to get a product a month early...my time is worth it....

but with pre-ordering, you aren't even getting a product, you are both paying a huge premium, and saying you are willing to wait as well....this is just so shocking...why, why, why...I shake my head.

thanks for the post, I think its a good warning.

 

Offline Paul_Gadd

Re: FYI: Grass not so green on the other side
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2003, 08:25:21 PM »
"They are really losing credibility"

That should go for Amiga inc aswell.
 

Offline Targhan

Re: FYI: Grass not so green on the other side
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2003, 10:55:09 PM »
@Paul

It does go for all companies involved.  We were all given timeframes by both companies, so the end will tell us who was really working on the means.

I can only ask that we (myself included) refrain from bashing either company based on their promises, unless money is cought up in those promises.  (i.e.  waiting on a Pegasos or  bought a coupon)  Then, try (I know it isn't always possible) to keep the bashing related to that.

Lawsuits tend to get sorted out in court, and bad business plans or broken promises will eventually show themselves.  I can't blame anyone for pre-ordering diddly anymore in this market.

Regards,
Targhan
 

Offline Argo

Re: FYI: Grass not so green on the other side
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2003, 11:42:56 PM »
Looks like they are not ready for PrimeTime yet...
 

Offline DaveP

Re: FYI: Grass not so green on the other side
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2003, 08:24:27 AM »
@downix

Quote

downix wrote:
A business that sends boards to customers that don't pay for them goes out of business, that's the rational explination for this.


Thats the part that just isn't clear. Miky060 does not
come out of it too well, nor does Eva but the treatment they got on the message boards does not
seem to be "the done thing".

Considering Eva is known as "Eva the Troll" for his
fanatical pro-MorphOS/Pegasos stance ( like the reverse for Samface ) postings all over the place whether on topic or not - it is interesting.

Hate figure. :lol:
 

Offline Warface

Re: FYI: Grass not so green on the other side
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2003, 09:12:43 AM »
"FYI: Grass not so green on the other side"

What kind of "other" side? Both sides mistakes, wrongdoings make us look pathetic in some way. IMO
 

Offline DaveP

Re: FYI: Grass not so green on the other side
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2003, 09:26:48 AM »
Everyone assumes that the grass is greener on the other
side and sometimes maybe if you just look it is not as
green as you think, its just a saying ... no need to get hung up over it
or the "side" part of the quotation :-)

I couldn't hand on heart lobby for users to invest in the
Amiga market right at the moment. For some time I have
been considering that Pegasos market was lower risk
and worth advocating users to get on board - but that
was just "grass is greener on the other side".
Hate figure. :lol:
 

Offline Warface

Re: FYI: Grass not so green on the other side
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2003, 09:42:44 AM »
Just as I think the ONE/OS4 route will be better.

Yet, you go for the XE way, am for the Peg. That's why I think there are no need for sides. Did I choose the right path? Dunno, I have my doubts.

I have seen surprisingly positive marketing and plain negative campaigns and mistakes as well.

Good and bad are dead. It's just the community which is the same.  :-)
 

Offline bbrv

Re: Grass IS greener on THIS side!
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2003, 12:52:08 PM »
Hi Everyone!

Please see Post #69 on the "MorphOS Betatester2 Quickstart Guide v2.0 available" thread on www.morphos-news.de.

Thanks!

...and Dave you are right!  ;-)

Best regards,
R&B  :-D

Offline gary_c

Re: FYI: Grass not so green on the other side
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2003, 03:45:57 PM »
DaveP wrote:
Quote
Consider it an FYI.

Thanks, DaveP. Before I read Bill Buck's post at the (then) bottom of this thread, I was ready to dismiss you as another FUD spreader just like the guy who spawned the bad-feeling thread at ann.lu by posting "an FYI" about what was happening at the morphos-news.de forum where this all started. (You're faux-innocent information service was pretty transparent BTW.) But anyway bringing the sordid thing up here did enable me to find the link to the bbrv post at morphos-news that hopefully will put an end to this sad tale and hopefully mark the beginning of nicer dialog in the future on such topics. Thanks again.

-- gary_c
 

Offline DaveP

Re: FYI: Grass not so green on the other side
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2003, 04:07:00 PM »
@Gary
Quote

Thanks, DaveP. Before I read Bill Buck's post at the (then) bottom of this thread, I was ready to dismiss you as another FUD spreader

You have a right to your own opinions. As i said, please dont
bring the flaming here but most people on Amiga.org don't bother
to read ANN any more.

I take objection to the "FUD spreading" bit. A consumer
row was reported on an Amiga based product. If I had wanted
to spread FUD it would have been a News Item saying "Dont
trust GENESI!" but given that this is not my opinion nor
a credible conclusion to come to please go ahead and
ascribe motives to me in order to discredit not only my
reporting of an interesting link but also me in the future. Im
sure with enough followups like this I will become as
discredited as Mr Bouma. Not that I actually care about
what your opinion of me is. I don't claim to be anything
other than a potential user of all Amiga related products.

I won't be able to convince you of my motives so there
is no point in bothering. But pointing out that there is
probably a rational explanation should give you a minor
clue as to what I think of the debate as it was at that
stage ( irrational ).

Given that Bill saw it in context and in perspective ( and
I would guess the spirit in which it was intended ) I am
surprised that you didn't. You see on the one side we have
Genesi the company which looks like a safe bet for new users
and is stable, growing and professional ...

....but on the other side we have the community that surrounds
it which seems to have more than its fair share of nutters ( like Miky060, Eva, Cheesegrate ). Look at this
from the outside, would you recommend Genesi to a friend
if the dialogue between its usebase and the company can
degenerate to this level?? In fact pretty much like the
"The NAME(TM)" community eh?

I don't see this as being particularly damaging to Genesi
I see it as further evidence that the "Amiga community"
( vendors and users ) have no sense of perspective and
members of the community no sense of rational discourse.

Quote

 just like the guy who spawned the bad-feeling thread at ann.lu by posting "an FYI" about what was happening at the morphos-news.de forum where this all started.


Oh COME ON the guy on ANN said "look what Genesi did
to this guy" and proceeded to editorialise - whereas I just
said look, heres a row breaking out go and make up your
own mind.

You might not see the difference because I guess you are
inclined to vent if anything is posted that might lead to
the shiny image being questioned. If you read the whole thread
through ( which I encouraged ) you will see that no-one
comes out of this with credit.

Quote

(You're faux-innocent information service was pretty transparent BTW.)

Whatever Gary. I mean don't let your own bias influence
your interpretations of my motives...

Quote

 But anyway bringing the sordid thing up here did enable me to find the link to the bbrv post at morphos-news that hopefully will put an end to this sad tale and hopefully mark the beginning of nicer dialog in the future on such topics. Thanks again.

Glad you accept that it was sordid, but brushing sordid
things under the carpet does nobody ANY good.

I advise you not to get so worried about articles like this
appearing because by tackling and reporting them head on the rumour mill
when it has gone through the usual chinese whispers
will NOT be so effective because EVERYONE knows
what the real story is.

But hey, who am I to try to educate people on rumour
management?

(edit - r/jerk/nutters )
Hate figure. :lol:
 

Offline DaveP

Re: FYI: Grass not so green on the other side
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2003, 04:17:01 PM »
Folks, the link that Bill was talking about is on Morphos-news.de
and not ANN ( which is where I went looking for it )

Bill clarifies his position
Hate figure. :lol: