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A-EON Technology Software => Personal Paint (PPaint) => Topic started by: Dynamic_Computing on April 02, 2019, 09:45:58 PM

Title: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: Dynamic_Computing on April 02, 2019, 09:45:58 PM
I purchased Personal Paint 7.3 when it was released, and found a myriad of issues with it. I want to start a thread to see if others have similar issues so we can get them fixed. Please don't interpret this as a PPaint bashing thread, because it is awesome software. Here is what I have found so far.
1. It does not run at all on 68000 CPU's. Even in emulation with WINUAE - I have it on my A500 with an ACA500+ and it refuses to work.  (It is advertised to work on 68000 Amiga's, and previous versions did)
2. There is no install routine, even though it is mentioned multiple times in the FAQ and guides included on the CD. This also means you have to set your assigns manually, yet this is not covered anywhere in the docs.
3. Fonts do not always work. On my WINUAE session, they work ok, on a real A1200 with an '040 and 64 MB of RAM and an MKII flicker fixer, if you type on the screen the text might appear to the upper right or bottom left... Tested in all resolutions. Before the MKII is blamed, old PPaint works, and 20 year old DeluxePaint text works fine on all screens.
4. The documentation is all over the place, and has not been edited since 1997. It talks about utilities drawers that don't exist and modules that are nowhere to be seen. It might take two or three days to clean up the documents, but it is silly that it was not done.
5. The Spline tool (To make a curved line) behaves like the fonts - It does not appear where you click the pointer, but sometimes far above, sometimes far below
6. The solid line drawing tool behaves the same way as #5

Have any of you had the same experiences, or bugs of your own that should be cleaned up? Add them here! And I will add more as I find them.
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: Dynamic_Computing on April 03, 2019, 07:27:50 AM
I tested all the strange graphical issues such as the fonts issue and line issue on my Amiga 4000 using standard AGA, and they worked ok. I am pretty sure it is an incompatibility with the MKII board causing the problems. It is a brand new installation if AmigaOS 3.1.4, and all the graphics modes are customized properly. I know it should work, because all of the other and much older graphics software I use works fine on the MKII.
Any help I can give to the Devs, just let me know. I want the product to be a success (and also want it to work)
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: BozzerBigD on April 03, 2019, 03:08:46 PM
Deluxe Paint V seems quite stable as an alternative!  :D
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: roberthazelby on April 03, 2019, 10:19:26 PM
I’ve had no issues typing text on my 3.9 A1200. I’ve just tried it on my 3.1.4 A1200 this evening and I have the same text issue. The cursor moves when you type but nothing appears.
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: broadblues on April 04, 2019, 09:49:27 AM
Quote
2. There is no install routine, even though it is mentioned multiple times in the FAQ and guides included on the CD. This also means you have to set your assigns manually, yet this is not covered anywhere in the docs.

Just unpack to the destination of your choice. There are no assigns that need to be set, PPaint sets them itself when it starts up if they are not already set.

Quote
3. Fonts do not always work. On my WINUAE session, they work ok, on a real A1200 with an '040 and 64 MB of RAM and an MKII flicker fixer, if you type on the screen the text might appear to the upper right or bottom left... Tested in all resolutions. Before the MKII is blamed, old PPaint works, and 20 year old DeluxePaint text works fine on all screens.

No idea about this, they work for me (under WinUAE though so ...) Before you dismiss the flicker fixer , please try without it. Can't see why it shuld affect enyting though.

What screen resolution and size are you using, try a really standard one without overscan and no autoscroll. Weird stuff with mouse position can hapen on some system with autoscroll, might possibly affect this too.

Quote
5. The Spline tool (To make a curved line) behaves like the fonts - It does not appear where you click the pointer, but sometimes far above, sometimes far below
6. The solid line drawing tool behaves the same way as #5

Definetly feels like the austoscroll thing might be affecting this.
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: broadblues on April 04, 2019, 09:51:03 AM
Quote
I?ve had no issues typing text on my 3.9 A1200. I?ve just tried it on my 3.1.4 A1200 this evening and I have the same text issue. The cursor moves when you type but nothing appears.

IUUC there's choice of intuitions with 3.1.4 which version are you using?
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: roberthazelby on April 04, 2019, 01:11:44 PM
I'm using the standard intuition. Not the one that lets you drag windows off-screen.
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: Dynamic_Computing on April 04, 2019, 06:53:34 PM
Same here with the intuition. Standard version on 3.1.4 - but I use the new version on my A4000 with AmigaOS 3.1.4 (this one is 3.9 with the 3.1.4 upgrade script run).
I have tried in resolutions ranging from 320x200 up to some of the more extreme resolutions available to the Indivision. I don't doubt it could be an issue with working with the MKII. My point is the old version works fine with it, And DPaont works fine with it, so there is a reason the new version of PPaint fails with it.
So PPaint modifies my user startup when I Iaunch it and adds and assign? Huh...
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: broadblues on April 14, 2019, 12:13:05 AM
Quote
So PPaint modifies my user startup when I Iaunch it and adds and assign? Huh...

Ofcourse it doesn't.

If PPaint: assign does not exist it's created and assigned to the program directory on startup then removed at prgram exit.

Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: Dynamic_Computing on April 14, 2019, 05:51:40 PM
Several of is were talking about this new PPaint during a live stream of a DPaint tutorial - and many of us are having the same issues, and so far not even a "We aknowledge it and we are working on it". I was told a few weeks ago that one of the devs would contact me, but nothing... I was excited to do a review of the software on my YouTube channel, but I really, really don't want to do a negative review. I really hope someone is listening and helps fix this software. I would have gladly paid three or four times the price they are selling it for if it will make it work right.
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: broadblues on April 20, 2019, 09:34:52 AM
Quote
Several of is were talking about this new PPaint during a live stream of a DPaint tutorial - and many of us are having the same issues, and so far not even a "We aknowledge it and we are working on it". I was told a few weeks ago that one of the devs would contact me, but nothing... I was excited to do a review of the software on my YouTube channel, but I really, really don't want to do a negative review. I really hope someone is listening and helps fix this software. I would have gladly paid three or four times the price they are selling it for if it will make it work right.

I got no specific message to contact you, although I don't know who you might be outside of the forums.  But this is the second or third time I've talked about PPaint on forums and people of have "insulted" me behind my back without realising they are talking to my face!

I just spent some considerable effort fixing a bunh of bugs for the recent release, I've no more time for PPaint just at the moment, many prjects to work on, but will inevitably come back to it.

From this thread so far as I can tell this issue only occurs on 3.1.4 so which could mean two things:

Bug in some component of 3.1.4 (gfx lib or intuition I'd guess)

Obscure bug in ppaint only reavealed by 3.1.4

Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: Thomas Richter on April 20, 2019, 11:19:27 AM
Bug in some component of 3.1.4 (gfx lib or intuition I'd guess)

Obscure bug in ppaint only reavealed by 3.1.4
The text engine had not been modified or altered in 3.1.4, but if you find something, please let me know. I'm happy to take bug reports.
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: Dynamic_Computing on April 22, 2019, 06:26:29 PM
Quote
Several of is were talking about this new PPaint during a live stream of a DPaint tutorial - and many of us are having the same issues, and so far not even a "We aknowledge it and we are working on it". I was told a few weeks ago that one of the devs would contact me, but nothing... I was excited to do a review of the software on my YouTube channel, but I really, really don't want to do a negative review. I really hope someone is listening and helps fix this software. I would have gladly paid three or four times the price they are selling it for if it will make it work right.

I got no specific message to contact you, although I don't know who you might be outside of the forums.  But this is the second or third time I've talked about PPaint on forums and people of have "insulted" me behind my back without realising they are talking to my face!

I just spent some considerable effort fixing a bunh of bugs for the recent release, I've no more time for PPaint just at the moment, many prjects to work on, but will inevitably come back to it.

From this thread so far as I can tell this issue only occurs on 3.1.4 so which could mean two things:

Bug in some component of 3.1.4 (gfx lib or intuition I'd guess)

Obscure bug in ppaint only reavealed by 3.1.4

I hope you did not think I was insulting you. I just want some aknowledgment that the problems exist and are being addressed. This is Doug from 10 Minute Amiga Retro Cast, and I have been wanting to do a review of the new software since I heard a new version was being released. I pre ordered it and was terribly excited about new software for the Amiga in 2019. When I received it, I realized it does not seem to work on any 68000 CPU, even though the old version did, and all of the promotional materials say it works on any Amiga including A500 and A600. Now, I own plenty of Amiga's, so it is not the end of the world, but it is a HUGE issue to advertise a product to work on a platform that it does not work on. Even if the solution is spending 10 minutes changing your PPaint.net page to say "New version requires '020 or better" is a actually a solution to the problem. Of course, I would rather be able to use it on my 68000 based Amiga like I do the old version.
I have had several conversations with Matthew Leaman whom I purchased the software through - at least three via messenger and email - and he assured me he would contact the devs and have them get back to me. This is what I was saying above - it was over a month, and I heard nothing, and PPaint is useless to use for me.
My A500 won't run it at all on my ACA500+, yet works fine if I plugged my '040 card from my A1200 on it. My A1200 exhibits the above symptoms that renders the software totally unuseable. I literally cannot use a single pixel brush. My A4000 mostly works, but with at least 3 or 4 times as many crashes as version 7.1. Yes, all my machines currently have AmigaOS 3.1.4, but I tested the 68000 issue on WinUAE and it fails there too when emulating a 68000.
My point of saying I would have spent several times more money on this product is accurate - I am hoping that you guys see that you could have a viable, sellable and hopefully profitable product if you can get it to work reliably. If the attitude is "It's only $15, so we won't bother to fix it", then we will all just go back to the free 7.1 version that works fine (even on 3.1.4, so it is hard to blame  3.1.4 for the issues) and also continue to use DeluxePaint.
I only have about 750 subscribers to my weekly YouTube channel, but I also know and work with several other fairly well known people in the Amiga Community - and all of us communicate. I want to be able to say "Buy PPaint! It's worth every penny" to everyone I know in the community, but I cannot, as it does not work with the software and hardware we are using today.
For heaven's sake - I even offered to re-write the 22 year old AmigaGuide that comes with the new software - It still does nothing but talk about Cloanto and has no reference at all to the new features.
I get that you guys are busy, and respect that, and I hope you understand this long winded message comes from someone who wants you to succeed . My direct email address is douglas@dctechaz.com if you want to communicate directly.
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: broadblues on April 27, 2019, 02:14:39 PM
Ah Doug, I know who I'm talking too now :-)

I did put "insult" in quotes, so I'm not exactly insulted by just alittle frustrated by people grunmbling about me to me in forums, perhaps I'm not as notorious as I'd like to think ;-)

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I just want some aknowledgment that the problems exist and are being addressed.

WRT to the A500 issue I believe we sent you a 68000 specfic build, which if I understand correctly still had a 68020 depndency lurking in there somewhere. Might be libnix not sure. 

I don't have A500 setup to test on at the moment. I have FS-UAE on my laptop but have only got a image of my a1200 on there for the moment. I can only use that for short testing sessions as it causes my poor aging linux laptop to over heat! (As an aside tips on fixing that would be helpful!).

WRT to the 3.1.4 issues this thread is the first I've heard of it.  I will have to setup a 3.1.4 config on my FS-UAE at somepoint but I'm full on busy at the moment.

I will look into this soon.  I cannot make promsies of how soon soon is.

These days it's not amatter of how many devs per prject but haow many projects per dev, and I have more than a few to maintain, without getting started on my own!.

Quote
For heaven's sake - I even offered to re-write the 22 year old AmigaGuide that comes with the new software - It still does nothing but talk about Cloanto and has no reference at all to the new features.

I'm just comparing the 68k and OS4 distribution archives, looks like the newer docs are missing from the 68k distro, will get that fixed.

Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: kolla on April 27, 2019, 09:05:54 PM
Again I am dumbfounded by how "important" developers lack hardware and test environments  ::)
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: broadblues on April 28, 2019, 10:04:21 AM
@kolla

I did have arange of setups using amiga forever on my old windows XP hardisk but that died (the disk) and I have only just recently had time to investigate FS-UAE under linux.

Tester have other hardware but I guess nobody tried it on an A500!

I'm a Amiag OS4 dev, so 68k stuff is bit of a side effect to be honest!  I did approach PPaint with the intention to keep it backwards compatable but there sooo many variations in 68k setups it's not an easy task, not an excuse per seh just the way it is.
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: kolla on April 28, 2019, 01:57:53 PM
Maybe you should keep your "primed" clean disk images, kickstarts and setups on a remote filesystem (box, dropbox, whatever) or better yet, a git repo (github, gitlab...), from where you can pull them down when needed? That's what I do, anyways, and I'm not even a "developer"...
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: Dynamic_Computing on April 29, 2019, 05:10:04 PM
I am glad you are fixing the documentation. I know that you are aware of this, but Amiga Forever is like $30 and will run fine on a cheap little throw-away netbook or any PC from the last 15 years. It literally took me about 25 seconds to find and launch a 68000 emulated A600, and another minute to transfer over PPaint 7.3 and test it. I will gift you a darn Amiga Forever if you want.
I am sorry that the 68k stuff is just not important enough to support. I may be looking at it from the wrong angle, but I really suspect the 68k software would be a larger market than the OS4.1 market today. I would recommend taking a second look at that potential income stream - it may even help fund the OS 4.1 software.
Yesterday I spent a few hours with a local guy helping him get his "New" Amiga 1200 set up with Amiga OS 3.1.4 and getting some great software installed. I put the free version of PPaint on there and explained how it works - he was thrilled. He has spent about $300 on hardware and software for his new A1200, much of it based on what he watched on my channel.  I was sad that I could not even mention that there is a new, paid version available, as I can't guarantee it would work properly. That sucks, my friend.
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: kolla on April 30, 2019, 07:07:31 AM
Amiga Forever is like $30 and will run fine on a cheap little throw-away netbook or any PC from the last 15 years

Or VirtualBox, VMWare etc under Linux.

I really don't use it much, but I do have a Windows10 image with AmigaForever on VirtualBox, on my macbook, and it works fine.

The main problem here is that the code is left in the hands of people who neither have time, nor interest, to do the development that is required. So it just lingers there.
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: broadblues on April 30, 2019, 03:28:00 PM
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Or VirtualBox, VMWare etc under Linux.

I really don't use it much, but I do have a Windows10 image with AmigaForever on VirtualBox, on my macbook, and it works fine.

Really doubt my ancient HP compaq presario laptop is up such magic.  I had to drop back to xfce just got linux to perform acceptably once I'd upgraded to debian 9 to get chrome updates back.
 
Quote
The main problem here is that the code is left in the hands of people who neither have time, nor interest, to do the development that is required. So it just lingers there.

Perhaps, but without my efforts to port it to OS4 and get both it and OS4 fixed to make it work, PPaint would never have been updated at all. Other devs tried asnd simply lacked the needed degree of "stubourness".

Something has clearly broken with 3.1.4 and I will look into that, once I have the time.
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: robuttley on May 03, 2019, 12:12:28 PM
Just another voice here to say yes it's not working on an A500 (I have the ACA500Plus setup too, but even knocking up an A500 with 3.1 roms inside FS-UAE gets the same result). I bought it really just to show a bit of support but I do think that either it needs fixing on the 68000 chip, or A-EON remove the 'A500' bit from the website (sadly, I know which is easier to do!)

Happy to help test anything going forwards in terms of trial builds, patches etc. I'm a developer by trade myself, over 30 years, so I have some sense of collecting crash logs and writing meaningful bug reports etc.
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: Dynamic_Computing on May 06, 2019, 02:27:07 AM
Hey, Rob! Great to see you here. Thanks for chiming in. The more people we report on the problem, the sooner something will get done, I am sure!
I have great plans to create some 16 color Hi Res images from 24 bit files, and I really want to test them on my A500. Deluxe Paint works fine, but if I can use a currently supported and sold package to do it, that is MUCH better! 
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: broadblues on May 08, 2019, 03:58:02 PM
WRT to the peculiar behaviour under 3.14 can you check if you are using the personal_agnus_blit.library or the personal_cpu_blit.library?

You can check this by looking at  menu->settings->Amiga Blitter  if that is chacked you are using agnus otherwise cpu.

Or you can look at the line

   BLITLIBS = "personal_agnus_blit.library", "personal_cpu_blit.library", 0

if there is 0 there the first lib is used.  if 12 the second.

When testing under 3.1.4 and using agnus I see the issues you describe (kind of).

1. Single pixel brush does not work
2. Curve tool renders as 'dots' rather than continuous line but does render the final line as long as the single pixel isn't used.
3. Freehand area tool doesn't work (might render corrupt stuff).
4. Text tool doesn't type text, though the red guide box / cursor displays in the correct place.

Some corruption occurs on the Workbench screen.

Switching to cpu_blit all symptoms dispappear for me except the single pixel brush not working. The single pixel brush is "special" so this is probably significant.

When running with cpu or with agnus on my 3.5 setup all features work.
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: broadblues on May 08, 2019, 04:55:16 PM
I may have that reversed it seems to work for agnus and not cpu.
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: Dynamic_Computing on May 12, 2019, 01:53:25 AM
I will check on this tonight. It sure would make it much more useable, although that single pixel brush is pretty important!
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: kolla on May 12, 2019, 11:00:39 PM
Random-out-of-nowhere feature request: native support for .info icon formats (legacy planar icons, OS3.5+ colour icons, true colour OS4 icons and PNG icons) - load icon as brush, or two-frame animbrush, and likewise save animbrush (two frames) to new or existing .info files. This can already be done, sort of, using arexx (and third party tools), but it's not as trivial as it could be.
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: Dynamic_Computing on May 13, 2019, 07:44:43 AM
Well, changing between agnus and the CPU certainly helped. When I tried to change it within the program it made things worse and caused a Guru, but when I changed it in the prefs file it fixed the issues you mentioned.
You mentioned putting a "12" in the line, and I think it is supposed to be "1"

"Or you can look at the line

   BLITLIBS = "personal_agnus_blit.library", "personal_cpu_blit.library", 0

if there is 0 there the first lib is used.  if 12 the second"

Error message if I put 12, works ok with 1.

The biggest stumbling blocks for me are the single pixel brush now and the inability to use it on my 68000 based machine. Thanks for the troubleshooting help!

For everyone else, edit the "startup_1.set" file in PPaint_Prefs folder as noted above to fix some of the 3.1.4 related issues.
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: broadblues on May 13, 2019, 08:01:30 PM
@Dynamic_Computing

I've now identified the issue (with the help some feed back from Thomas) the 3.1.4 thing was red herring just a coincidence of the bug reports surfacing at the same time as the users were trying out 3.1.4.

What is happening is that the detection of when it was safe to use fast memory for bitmaps had got lost at some point, and when using the personal_cpu_blit.library it was *always* putting bitmaps into fast memory.

I will fix this up with an improved test for when its safe (FBlit, RTG in place etc) but as an immediate work arround you could try installing FBlit or Picasso96.

Still working on getting the 68000 version working, realy not sure how to qwork out exactly what instruction is maing it crash, and in which bit of code it is, missing the GR window from OS4 here!

Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: broadblues on May 19, 2019, 11:45:32 AM
@Dynamic_Computing

I've now got viable 68000 build (specs file in my gcc setup was promoting all 68000 code to 68010 for some unknown and ancient reason) I've tested on my 3.1.4 FS-UAE setup on a A500+ emulation and it seems to work. If you email your contact I will send you a test build andy@broad.ology.org.uk

Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: robuttley on May 19, 2019, 01:00:10 PM
Happy to test it here on a 3.1 A500 - I can block off an evening in the coming week :-)
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: Dynamic_Computing on May 19, 2019, 03:25:07 PM
Message has been sent! I am looking forward to trying this out on my A500. Thanks for your continued hard work!
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: broadblues on May 19, 2019, 04:58:03 PM
Replied to email, please let me know that you got it as have been having a lot of spam bounces of late.
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: Dynamic_Computing on May 22, 2019, 08:47:38 PM
Great news! I received the patched version, and it launched and ran fine on my A500 with my ACA500+ card and Amiga OS 3.1.4. I tested with a HAM image which it converted to 16 color like a champ. I also tested single pixel drawing, spline and text entry, and so far so good.
I will do more testing in the next day or so, but it is looking great!
Being that is only my Amiga 1200 that is showing that "single pixel brush" problem with 3.1.4 and not on my ECS machine, maybe that will give you one more clue where the problem lies
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: robuttley on May 22, 2019, 08:57:12 PM
That's promising Doug! Any chance with your ACA500Plus setup you can try it under 3.1 too, just to see if it fires up ok?
Title: Re: Personal Paint 7.3 Bug thread
Post by: Dynamic_Computing on August 08, 2019, 06:53:36 AM
Just an update - everything seems to be OK on a ECS 68000 based Amiga OS 3.1.4 machine. All features appear to work.
RTG Mode on my Amiga 2000 with Picasso96 drivers  - all features seem to work
Amiga 1200 with Amiga OS 3.1.4 - most features work ok, but the single pixel brush tool in the upper left corner still does not work. I tried both the fblit and Picasso96 tricks, nothing helps.

Any progress on getting this working?