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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Gaming => Topic started by: eliyahu on October 11, 2015, 02:46:16 PM

Title: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: eliyahu on October 11, 2015, 02:46:16 PM
@thread

during the cinemaware presentation at the amiga30 event in nuess, germany, it was announced that there will be a port of wings remastered to AOS4, AROS, and MOS. you can watch the preview starting at around 10m:38s in this video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=0VPEEpjdBZ8) at youtube.

pre-orders will soon be available at retro.cinemaware.com (http://retro.cinemaware.com/) for those interested. apparently there will be only production run, so be sure to sign up for updates. i know i did. :)

hat-tip to amiga-news.de (http://amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2015-10-00032-DE.html) for the link.

-- eliyahu
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Yasu on October 11, 2015, 03:51:32 PM
Not surprisingly the port is made by Daniel Musshener (Cherry Darling). I sat next to him and still completely missed it :p

"Wait, isn't that game based on Unity, and thus impossible to port?"

Yes, that is indeed correct. Which is why he will be writing a whole new 3D engine from scratch. Isn't that ambitious enough for you? :D
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Fransexy_ on October 11, 2015, 08:59:47 PM
Quote from: Yasu;797220
Not surprisingly the port is made by Daniel Musshener (Cherry Darling). I sat next to him and still completely missed it :p

"Wait, isn't that game based on Unity, and thus impossible to port?"

Yes, that is indeed correct. Which is why he will be writing a whole new 3D engine from scratch. Isn't that ambitious enough for you? :D


it would be much more ambitious if he will be writing a unity port ;-) :-P


just kidding!! it's a good news :-)
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on October 12, 2015, 01:14:48 PM
@Fransexy
Quote
it would be much more ambitious if he will be writing a unity port ;-) :-P
That's true. It would also be much more impossible ;)

@Yasu
Quote
Which is why he will be writing a whole new 3D engine from scratch.
Luckily I can reuse some code from Wings Battlefield (not too much but for example the dynamic LOD system).

If you tried the current build during the show you could see that the menus, intro, story-telling etc. have already been fully ported. You could also check out the current state of the bombing missions (almost done) and the dogfights (work in progress, polygon-cockpit and -pilot / shooting / controls / basic enemies already working).
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: eliyahu on October 12, 2015, 01:31:51 PM
@Daytona675x

you're a coding machine! we're very fortunate to have you as a developer these days. i can't wait for wings remastered. :)

-- eliyahu
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Acill on October 12, 2015, 06:04:07 PM
This is great news! I have the original disks still but none will ready any longer.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: TheMagicM on October 12, 2015, 10:52:57 PM
Signed up.   If its an actual Wings remake...I'm all in!
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on November 06, 2015, 11:12:19 AM
Hi friends,

now it's your turn :)
The demo-versions are online and preorders are being accepted.
A bigger press release is in the works but I was told to already spread the news nevertheless.

Info to the demos:

don't expect anything bug-free or even final! The code is neither optimized nor complete nor anything yet. And there are placeholders too (for example the explosions of Wings Battlefield).
Of course: I paused working on it for now and will only continue if / when there are enough pre-orders, otherwise the project will be canceled.
So the demos are a snap-shot of the current state of development.
It's about one thing: to show you that it's on a good way and to give you the opportunity to check out if and how it works on your system. It is to be expected that performance and quality will both be higher in the final version (for example regarding performance: the demo doesnt use texture-compression, the models aren't optimized yet, etc.; and for example regarding quality: no volumetric shadows yet, placeholders, missing parts, etc.).

But now to the links:

Preorder here:
http://retro.cinemaware.com/product/wings-remastered-amiga-edition/

MorphOS
http://www.goldencode.de/download.php?file=WingsDemo_MorphOS.lha

AROS x86:
http://www.goldencode.de/download.php?file=WingsDemo_AROS.zip

AmigaOS4 Warp3D
http://www.goldencode.de/download.php?file=WingsDemo_AOS4_Warp3D.lha

AmigaOS4 RadeonHD Compositing (for Radeon-cards without Warp3D support)
http://www.goldencode.de/download.php?file=WingsDemo_AOS4_Compositing.lha


And here are some screenshots of the AmigaOS4 Compositing version:
Photo 0 (http://www.goldencode.de/stuff/wings/shot0.jpg)
Photo 1 (http://www.goldencode.de/stuff/wings/shot1.jpg)
Photo 2 (http://www.goldencode.de/stuff/wings/shot2.jpg)
Photo 3 (http://www.goldencode.de/stuff/wings/shot3.jpg)
Photo 4 (http://www.goldencode.de/stuff/wings/shot4.jpg)
Photo 5 (http://www.goldencode.de/stuff/wings/shot5.jpg)
Photo 6 (http://www.goldencode.de/stuff/wings/shot6.jpg)
Photo 7 (http://www.goldencode.de/stuff/wings/shot7.jpg)
Photo 8 (http://www.goldencode.de/stuff/wings/shot8.jpg)
Photo 9 (http://www.goldencode.de/stuff/wings/shot9.jpg)
Photo 10 (http://www.goldencode.de/stuff/wings/shot10.jpg)
Photo 11 (http://www.goldencode.de/stuff/wings/shot11.jpg)
Photo 12 (http://www.goldencode.de/stuff/wings/shot12.jpg)
Photo 13 (http://www.goldencode.de/stuff/wings/shot13.jpg)
Photo 14 (http://www.goldencode.de/stuff/wings/shot14.jpg)
Photo 15 (http://www.goldencode.de/stuff/wings/shot15.jpg)

Have fun,
Daniel

p.s.: some known driver related issues on the different systems:
MorphOS: on some systems (Powerbook, MOS 3.9, Radeon 9700 is it I guess) the lighting is broken (all much too dark) and the fog-color is wrong (some byte-order issue)
Warp3D: depending on GPU and resolution some polygons may still vanish here and there
Compositing on SouthernIsland / R200: better don't try it...
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: duga on November 06, 2015, 11:27:44 AM
The Warp3D version seems to work fine on Sam440ep-Flex@733 MHz, 1 GB RAM and Radeon 9250 (128 MB, 64-bit).
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on November 09, 2015, 06:54:18 AM
@duga
Yes, it should, a 440ep is one of the two test machines here ;)
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: F1Lupo on November 09, 2015, 03:51:28 PM
Quote from: eliyahu;797276
@Daytona675x

you're a coding machine! we're very fortunate to have you as a developer these days. i can't wait for wings remastered. :)

-- eliyahu

+1, my orders in!

(oh boy got killed on currency conversion thansk to damn low CDN currency :-(
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on November 12, 2015, 12:30:57 PM
@klx300r
Thanks :) And even more thanks considering you did it despite of the bad CDN exchange rate...
100 plus some preorders were placed already, things seem to be on a good track.
Cinemaware officials should soon post some more information on this whole topic, they already did in the german a1k forum, so the others should follow soon.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: TheMagicM on November 12, 2015, 02:00:50 PM
Works fine on my G5 Radeon 9600Pro setup with MorphOS 3.9. Small "bug" I think though.

When strafing, if you go too far back, your plane can never come back. Gets lost. When flying and you're on a bombing run, if you go too far to any side, it takes a while to "fly" back. It shouldnt let you fly off screen so far to where you're gone for such a long time.

Also when strafing, you have to be exactly on target to hit it, bullets look kinda lame. "Circles" instead of something better. Should have spent more time on that detail.

Audio is great, presentation is perfect, music is great also.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on November 12, 2015, 02:16:59 PM
@TheMagicM
Great :)
What you mentioned are no bugs, those are things that simply have not been taken care of during the dev-time until now. It's a teaser, no more no less. It's simply what I could come up with in about for weeks.
Quote
Info to the demos:
don't expect anything bug-free or even final! The code is neither  optimized nor complete nor anything yet. And there are placeholders too  (for example the explosions of Wings Battlefield).
Of course: I paused working on it for now and will only continue if /  when there are enough pre-orders, otherwise the project will be  canceled.
So the demos are a snap-shot of the current state of development.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: F1Lupo on November 12, 2015, 04:32:10 PM
Quote from: Daytona675x;799118
@klx300r
Thanks :) And even more thanks considering you did it despite of the bad CDN exchange rate...
100 plus some preorders were placed already, things seem to be on a good track.
Cinemaware officials should soon post some more information on this whole topic, they already did in the german a1k forum, so the others should follow soon.

awesome news:pint::knuddel:
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: TheMagicM on November 13, 2015, 01:33:37 AM
Quote from: Daytona675x;799121
@TheMagicM
Great :)
What you mentioned are no bugs, those are things that simply have not been taken care of during the dev-time until now. It's a teaser, no more no less. It's simply what I could come up with in about for weeks.


well if thats the case, you did a bad ass job!   Whats the magic number that you need to hit in order to release the game ?
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: agami on November 13, 2015, 05:28:49 AM
Screw NG Amiga's, how about releasing it on Classic.... oh wait, never mind.
I think it's time we had a Wings II on Classic Amiga; get some WWII action going. Personally, I wouldn't care if it's the same game with a new skin. You'd need a new WWII based journal though.
I love Wings.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Djole on November 13, 2015, 10:32:13 AM
I bet a new version for classic would outsell NG version without a problem. If the old sources are still available it wouldnt be a big problem. Just some small changes and a new box....
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on November 13, 2015, 11:06:54 AM
@agami
@Djole
Different game, different target platform, different topic please.
Regarding releasing this game for "classics" (if you consider an A1200 PPC Mediator Radeon setup to be a "classic", that is): well, even in the pre-pre-alpha demo at least the dogfights are at about the same, errm, "speed" as they were in the "original" Wings on an unextended A500 as soon as more than two enemies were around ;)

@TheMagicM
Quote
well if thats the case, you did a bad ass job! Whats the magic number that you need to hit in order to release the game ?
Thanks :)
We need 300 (pre)orders ( = all boxes that are going to be produced) to fully cover all the costs (we were at about 100 yesterday). However, we just decided to take the risk and do it / continue even if only 150 are preordered, hoping that the rest is going to sell later...
Cinemaware announced that information on a1k.org already, I hope the other forums will follow soon.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: utri007 on November 13, 2015, 01:21:05 PM
Any change to download only version?
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: TheMagicM on November 13, 2015, 01:40:22 PM
Quote from: Daytona675x;799166
@agami

@TheMagicM
Thanks :)
We need 300 (pre)orders ( = all boxes that are going to be produced) to fully cover all the costs (we were at about 100 yesterday). However, we just decided to take the risk and do it / continue even if only 150 are preordered, hoping that the rest is going to sell later...
Cinemaware announced that information on a1k.org already, I hope the other forums will follow soon.

WOW...I didnt think you'd tell me the magic number of orders needed.  Well, add 1 to that count.  I just ordered.  Looking forward to getting  my boxed MorphOS version.

EDIT:  76 missions / 0 kills?  You're the friendliest fighter out there.  LOL
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on November 13, 2015, 02:28:24 PM
@utri007
Quote
Any change to download only version?
Regarding download versions, let me quickly translate Cinemaware's statement at a1k.org on this topic:

"The development depends on the sales of the boxed version. Therefore there won't be a download version for now. However there will probably be a download option for all buyers of the box because some people seem to prefer to have that option. .... If the 300 boxes have been sold and if we still noticed a "high" demand .... then we might reconsider that decision."


@TheMagicM
Quote
WOW...I didnt think you'd tell me the magic number of orders needed.
Why not? It's no secret.

Quote
Well, add 1 to that count.
Thanks! :banana:

Quote
76 missions / 0 kills? You're the friendliest fighter out there
;) I'm afraid those numbers will become less peaceful if / when I continue with the project...
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Varthall on December 01, 2015, 09:12:12 AM
Pasted from amigaworld.net, I hope that Sven won't mind. Only 10 preorders left!

"Hey,

this is Sven from Cinemaware. First thanks for all your support. I want to give you an update and some short information. This physical release is limited to 300 Editions. This will be the only physical release, no 2nd Boxed-Edition will follow. It will be a classic BigBox with the Manual (Aviation Manual included), Poster and a CD which includes the Game and the Soundtrack. Also the classic Wings is included.

One important thing. This is a real community project. Daniel worked for free till now and continues with developing if we reach 150 sales (right now we are around 130) but can only be completed paid if we sell all 300 copies. We, Cinemaware, will not earn anything on this game. If all 300 Boxes are sold, he can also fully concentrate on the Port, so the release of Feb. 2016 is really safe. Sales goes complete to Daniel for the port and the production of the box. So its really important that we get sold out :) If this project and also the "Defender"-Project are successfull, then other ports to Amiga-Systems are realistic.

So please support this game and also spread the word and link :)

http://retro.cinemaware.com/product/wings-remastered-amiga-edition

Greetings
Sven"
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: AmigaNG on December 01, 2015, 10:50:59 AM
add one more, I had to wait and see if I could afford it this christmas. My budget will just about stretch. might be my last Big Box game I buy.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: amoskodare on December 03, 2015, 12:14:21 AM
One less to go, order done! :)
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on December 07, 2015, 06:16:03 PM
@Varthall
Thanks for posting! For whatever reason the CinemawareRetro account here is not functional yet, postings not possible.

@AmigaNG
@amoskodare
Thanks guys :)

@all
Thanks to all who preordered so far!
The minimum amount of 150 preorders has been reached by now which means: I'm working on the port again :)

However, 300 are the amount we really need to fully cover all costs, including my development costs. Since this here is a complete rewrite and no "simple" port like for example Tower57 will be, those sum up.
The 300-calculation was meant to cover about three months of full time work on this title (plus production costs plus some other Cinemaware outlays, and taxes of course).
As you may guess with 150 preorders things look different. I am not able to work full time on this title for now. Consequently it is unlikely that the Feb. 2016 release date can be achieved.
I'll do as much as I can, but I'll have to take care first that my warchest stays filled to a certain level.

Because forum work eats up my time too I decided to keep a small development diary (http://www.amiga-now.org) (not much there yet) instead of answering question X over there and talk about progress Y somewhere else.
That way you can always check out the current progress. I'll also answer (technical, gameplay related) questions there when I see some on any forum.
Just follow the link in my signature.

I'll also update the demo version from time to time, of course.

Cheers,
Daniel
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on December 24, 2015, 12:11:38 PM
@all german readers
I just kept my  promise and made the game's development diary (http://www.amiga-now.org) bilingual, you can switch to german by clicking on  the coresponding icon located at the top-right of the page.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Acill on December 24, 2015, 06:16:24 PM
I ordered but Paypal made me use my shipping address on file. I am in the process of selling my house and may not be there when they ship. Is there a way to have you update my shipping info so I can have it sent to another address?
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on December 25, 2015, 07:44:19 AM
@Acill
Thanks :-) That's no problem. Just send me a PM with the necessary info, I'll take care that it gets to the right people.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on February 03, 2016, 09:25:50 AM
To those who don't follow the development diary (http://www.amiga-now.org) too often:
it's model-conversion and -optimization time :p
I just put some new screenshots (https://goo.gl/2JBOCj) online, more to come for each new model. First I'm going to finish up the conversion tool though. Today I'll add an automatic optimize-model-for-iso-view command :)
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on February 13, 2016, 02:19:02 PM
I just added a pretty detailed photo-session (https://goo.gl/2JBOCj) illustrating the model conversion process.
For more information also check out the diary's entries since yesterday :razz:

Cheers,
Daniel
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Acill on February 13, 2016, 03:12:59 PM
Its looking awesome! I cant wait to get this game! Is it to late to order a 2nd copy? I want to keep one sealed now thinking of it.

I've also sent you a PM with a new mailing address :)
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on February 13, 2016, 03:37:25 PM
@Acill
I wish it was different, but no: plenty of units remaining (124 to be exact) so there's no reason not to order another one ;)
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: TheMagicM on February 14, 2016, 03:12:50 AM
Are you going to change the bullets to something more realistic?
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on February 14, 2016, 04:46:49 AM
@TheMagicM
Quote
Are you going to change the bullets to something more realistic?
Which ones do you mean?
If you're talking about the strafing bullets in the demo version: those were placeholders, in the original those look different and will be changed accordingly.
Generally speaking: I'm not going to do significant changes to the game. With one exception maybe: the explosions sometimes have weird colors and way too much sparks etc. that make it look pretty ugly IMHO.
But in general I don't mess with the artwork other than to technically adjust it to match my needs.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: TheMagicM on February 14, 2016, 02:00:26 PM
Quote from: Daytona675x;803980
@TheMagicM
If you're talking about the strafing bullets in the demo version: those were placeholders, in the original those look different and will be changed accordingly.


Yep..those...Excellent!
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on February 16, 2016, 05:17:16 PM
Hi all,

fresh stuff in the dev-diary (http://www.goldencode.eu/amiga/index.php?Language=1#i2016-02-15): progress and madness with the level-conversion :)

Have fun,
Daniel
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Aegis on February 16, 2016, 06:46:15 PM
I just got the demo up and running in WinUAE/OS4 using Wazp3D - it's a little shonky (lots of missing graphics and it's pretty ugly @ 320x240) but I'll be damned if if doesn't work - it's actually kinda playable too :D
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on February 18, 2016, 08:13:56 AM
@Aegis
on WinUAE with Wazp3D? You're crazy :)
Well, I don't know the detailed latest limitations of such a setup right now, but AFAIK there's still that VRAM limit. And the game requires quite some VRAM (otherwise you get your missing gfx). Maybe Wazp3D could get around that if doing pure software rendering. Although that's certainly not one of the target systems, it's fun nevertheless. I have an OS4 Classic licence here, so out of curiosity I'll give it a try myself.
Although you're certainly better off by using the PC version on a PC :)
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Aegis on February 18, 2016, 12:30:21 PM
Quote from: Daytona675x;804197
@Aegis
on WinUAE with Wazp3D? You're crazy :)
Well, I don't know the detailed latest limitations of such a setup right now, but AFAIK there's still that VRAM limit. And the game requires quite some VRAM (otherwise you get your missing gfx). Maybe Wazp3D could get around that if doing pure software rendering.


Call it curiosity :D The beta of WinUAE 3.3.0 allows you to use uaegfx with OS4 so 512mb video RAM's now possible (I was running Wings with 32). The real bottleneck is speed - even on an i7, the emulated PPC + software rendering is too slow to really 'play' wings but as you say, it's fun to see it running.

Toni plans to implement Voodoo 3 emulation at some point - presumably running on its own core - that should open the door to a few more apps and games running nicely on OS4/WinUAE (although fast RAM's still stuck at 128mb until Hyperion patch it).
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Niding on February 18, 2016, 01:45:42 PM
A bit offtopic, but somewhat not :)

With the current level of emulation, nerds like me that aint forking out the money needed for PPC machines, but owns AOS4 FE Classic; the customer base for people like Daytona just expanded quite a bit.

@Aegis

Looking forward to the pdf or whatever format of "how to best setup WinUAE/AOS4.1FE Classic", which I belive you mentioned somewhere. :)
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Aegis on February 18, 2016, 02:22:42 PM
Quote from: Niding;804209
A bit offtopic, but somewhat not :)

With the current level of emulation, nerds like me that aint forking out the money needed for PPC machines, but owns AOS4 FE Classic; the customer base for people like Daytona just expanded quite a bit.


There's three big limitations unfortunately: speed, fast RAM and hardware accelerated 2D/3D.

My WinUAE setup (which is a nice compromise between freeing up precious RAM and not strip-mining the OS of all its functionality) boots with 81mb free - by turning off a few things I can get that up to around 96mb. You can do a lot with that - I've even run Blender and done a few (small) renders with it (and of course, Wings loads and runs :D). But there's some OS4 software that expects large amounts of free RAM and emulation currently falls over there - maybe Hyperion will fix that - we'll see.

uaegfx doesn't support hardware compositing and whilst you can emulate 3D with Wazp and compositing with patchcompositetags, these are being run at the expense of CPU power which given that the PPC emulation is somewhat comparable to a SAM460 is a problem for games like Wings - there simply isn't enough grunt left over to run a complex game at playable speeds with these overheads.

Or to put it another way - on my i7, the OS4 port of Quake gets around 28fps @ 320x200 - quite playable but still much slower than hardware-accelerated systems.

I would however urge devs to look into the possibility of running their apps/games without compositing - some stuff like BubbleShooterDX looks like it should run easily under emulation but in my tests it was unplayable. On the flipside, Chocolate Doom runs blazingly fast and even Hyperion's Freespace port is playable under WinUAE.

Quote from: Niding;804209
Looking forward to the pdf or whatever format of "how to best setup WinUAE/AOS4.1FE Classic", which I belive you mentioned somewhere. :)


Stay tuned ;)
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Acill on May 13, 2016, 03:59:29 PM
Any news on a ship date for this yet?
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Niding on May 13, 2016, 04:09:25 PM
Daniel got a diary page for the development;

http://www.goldencode.de/amiga/

Scroll all the way down to see last notation.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Acill on February 03, 2018, 11:34:05 PM
So between the money spend on this, defender of the crown and Rocket Ranger I am out a lot of cash for three items that never got sent. Whats the story on these titles??
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: LoadWB on February 04, 2018, 01:40:56 AM
Quote from: Acill;835727
So between the money spend on this, defender of the crown and Rocket Ranger I am out a lot of cash for three items that never got sent. Whats the story on these titles??


http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=835735&postcount=20
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Acill on February 04, 2018, 03:40:53 AM
And nothing ever shipped.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: LoadWB on February 04, 2018, 06:19:01 AM
That appears to be the unfortunate case.  And it's too late now to get money back from PayPal or credit card, however the purchase was made.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Niding on February 04, 2018, 08:36:31 AM
It appears that Daniel is focusing on completing Tower57 for Amiga;

https://www.facebook.com/daniel.mussener?lst=740715618%3A100000493701258%3A1517732994

And I do remember him saying; if we dont reach 300+ pre-orders on Wings, he would develop on it "as time allows". Should be a familiar story in the amiga scene.

Honestly, I think Daniel is accepting too much work. There are limits to what 1 man can do in x amount of time. Espesially when it doesnt yield any cash back to him personally.

THAT said, Cinemaware should communicate with people at the VERY least, letting the customers know the progress pace and plans.

Jeroen Tel has the same issue with his campaign; it fell short on his target dollarwise, and to offset this, the time it has taken to complete his work has faaar exceeded what he initially hoped.
For a while he didnt communicate much, and people went sour. Now he communicates again, and people are quite understanding as long as they find the reasons for any delays belivable.
Plus we got 100s of Jeroens wonderful C64 AND Soundcloud soundtracks to keep us happy while we wait!
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on February 04, 2018, 09:04:54 AM
Hi guys,

I was just informed of this thread and asked by somebody via FB, "I'd  like to know why my order for Defender of the crown has been on hold  since Nov 2016. Also will I ever get wings?? Its a bit crazy to not get a  reply back on these things."

Here's my reply:
 I have nothing to do with Defender or Rocket Ranger or Wings-PC, I am only the programmer of the Wings-Amiga port. So for anything related to the other stuff you have to ask Cinemaware Retro.

Wings-Amiga-Port:
Yes, unfortunately it takes muuuuch longer than initially thought. No,  it's not done yet and anyone claiming anything different spreads fake  news.

However, CinemawareRetro sends boxes to some people who reserved it.  Those boxes only contain a recent unfinished dev-build. Those people  know what they get, of course.
It's meant for people who explicitely asked for it because  apparently for them it's more important to have the box already instead  of the finished game (pure collectors it seems).

Anyway:
note that Wings-Amiga is no Kickstarter or whatever. By paying you  simply reserved your copy. If you are tired of waiting you can simply  cancel it and get your money back.
The money was not touched. I have not seen / spent a single dime.

Wings-Amiga will still require some more time to finish. I won't do  any further estimation though. Right now it's completely on hold until  Tower57 is done. After that I will continue and hopefully be done soon.

@Niding
Quote
I think Daniel is accepting too much work. There are limits to what 1  man can do in x amount of time. Espesially when it doesnt yield any cash  back to him personally.
That turned out to be true, unfortunately. It was hard to forsee though:

1.  the work required for Wings turned out to be much higher than initially  thought. This has all kinds of reasons but mostly it's due to the  extreme degree of asset optimizations required plus the high amount of  large levels which have to be checked over and over again, whenever  applying a more heavier optimization or whatever. Simply strongly  underestimated this.

2. Tower57: bad luck. When I agreed to do  those ports I asumed that what I was told was right: that it's simple  basic OpenGL etc. That's why the Kickstarter-stretch-goal was that low  and why I thought that it would be a straight simple some-weekends-port  like e.g. BattleSquadron Deluxe was.
Unfortunately it turned out that  the game's code was running so extremely slow (or not at all due to RAM  requirements) on even mediocre NG-Amiga-hardware that I essentially had  to insanely optimize / rewrite huge parts of the game completely to get  decent performance. And on top of that I had to go the  software-rendering route because many NG-Amigas couldn't handle the huge  textures / huge VRAM requirements. And also come up with a  hicolor-version for systems with < = 512 MB RAM like the 440ep or old  PowerMacs.
So the point is: I asumed that this would only allocate  very few of my time and it turned out to be a nightmare consuming  man-month over man-month.
FYI: I did performance comparisons recently and it turned out that my optimized code runs more than 13-17 (!!!!!!!!!!!) times faster than the original code... And that was just enough to make it *playable* on 440ep and such... Just to give you an idea about the amount / quality of work (at most likely about 1 EUR per hour, at the end :) ).

Anyway, for T57 we have a release  candidate, my testers are very happy so this will be done very soon. And  then back to the other nightmare, Wings :P

Cheers,
Daniel
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: kamelito on February 04, 2018, 09:54:29 AM
Why using a software renderer even on high end AmigaNG?
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Dr_Procton on February 04, 2018, 10:07:50 AM
I just posted this in amigaworld..Beware of that guy (Sven of Cinemaware retro).
I had a very baad experience with that guy Sven of Cinemaware Retro.
I ordered AND PAID more than one year ago for a copy of Defender of the Crown collection. Never received the game. I sent him a ton of mail. He replied some of my mail, promised a tracking number, a next week shipping week after week..pathetic excuses.
Now the game is set as not available.But he didn't refund me for not receiving a copy of that product.
Stay away from that guy Sven..
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: eliyahu on February 04, 2018, 03:53:15 PM
@Daytona675x

a huge thanks for your update, daniel. it's much appreciated! :)

on a side note, would you have any other way of getting in touch with cinemaware retro besides the public email addresses they sent to backers? it looks like we have several members wanting to contact them, and being unable to.

-- eliyahu
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: gunni on February 04, 2018, 04:25:36 PM
@Daytona675x thanks for the update! :)
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on February 04, 2018, 05:10:02 PM
@Kamelito:

Regarding your question on Tower57 (but let's stop it then with T57 here).
Quote
Why using a software renderer even on high end AmigaNG?
Because it's the only option that makes sense ;)

1. my software renderer is faster than the original game's hw-renderer anyway (which suffers from e.g. no batching, at least one texture update per frame for the lighting, temporary textures for every line of text output, etc.). There are many many dedicated highly optimized blitting functions for all different purposes.

2. the software-renderer allowed me some optimizations and other improvements in the game's render-system which wouldn't work with hw-rendering in a nice way (some simple examples are the dithering in the hicolor-version and the lighting which I do manually procedurally (it actually is of higher quality than in the PC version while also being faster), but there are many other things actually).

3. as being said, the way the original game implements the hw-rendering doesn't work on actually most NG-Amigas (e.g. too large / too many textures; and there's no way around that, and texture-compression is a no-go for pixel-art anyway).

4. the exception to (3) are AOS4 systems with an SI card installed. For others with somewhat enough VRAM I could have worked around the texture-size issue in theory. But this would have resulted in other issues (see (2) and wouldn't have helped with low end systems like the 440ep or my own old PowerMac G4 here.

5. since I have to support systems where (4) doesn't apply and because of (1), even optional hw-rendering makes no sense. Especially because the game runs "too fast" on big machines by now anyway ;) So the big systems, which could handle hw-acceleration in this case here with all its drawbacks, are the systems that don't need it at all ;)
Besides that, even if going the 3D route would have been a working option: that would have meant "nay" to all those users with a RadeonHD 4xxx, 5xxx, 6xxx (while some things could have been done with Compositing, many drawing-styles of the game can't; actually the game's current lighting equation would require W3D Nova / OGLES2 if done via hw on NG-Amigas)

Please visit my public FB profile for more information on the game's state and also some benchmarks (there you'll also find my speed comparison with my Sony Vaio i5 running the official Steam build... :biglaugh: )


@eliyahu
@gunni

I wish I had better news like "it is done" for you, but it is as it is :(
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: F1Lupo on February 04, 2018, 10:00:52 PM
@ Daytona675x

thanks for the update Daniel ! we wouldn't be playing any of these games (especially not Towe57) on our miggies if it weren't for you so please keep rockin on for us whenever you can :hammer:

@ ALL AMIGANS WHO APPRECIATE OUR DEVELOPERS

why not send Daniel a small donation for coffee/beer while he works away on these games for us:)
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: kamelito on February 06, 2018, 06:55:58 AM
@Daytona
I have seen that you are using C++ isn t plain C faster?
Code generation and datas alignement aren t optimal in C++ except if you know your compiler and check what is produced no?
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Thomas Richter on February 06, 2018, 07:43:09 AM
Quote from: kamelito;835811
@Daytona
I have seen that you are using C++ isn t plain C faster?
Hardly. C++ allows certain tricks that are considerably harder to do in C.

Quote from: kamelito;835811
Code generation and datas alignement aren t optimal in C++ except if you know your compiler and check what is produced no?
No. Data alignment is exactly the same as in C: "It depends on the compiler". A good compiler will align "correctly". On the Amiga, alignment rules enforced by the Os are "align to 16-bit boundaries", except for UBYTE/BYTE/char.

The quality of the code generator depends on the compiler. There is no reason why C++ code should be worse than C code - quite the reverse. By using templates, one can use a C++ compiler as a "code generator" itself, generating better code.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: kamelito on February 06, 2018, 11:11:11 AM
Using C++ as a better C or going the OOP road?
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Vlabguy1 on February 06, 2018, 04:43:39 PM
Quote from: Acill;835742
And nothing ever shipped.



I have been sooo close to ordering from them and now I’m glad I hesitated..
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: LoadWB on February 06, 2018, 05:37:52 PM
This is a sad tarnish to the Cinemaware name.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Thomas Richter on February 06, 2018, 05:57:15 PM
Quote from: kamelito;835817
Using C++ as a better C or going the OOP road?
C++ is a multi-purpose language. OOP helps you to organize code, which is very useful for larger projects. No, OOP itself does not have a cost.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: kamelito on February 06, 2018, 07:48:38 PM
Well many serious game developers don t like C++ like Mike Acton, Jonathan Blow, Casey Muratory...they even influenced young developers who created hand made network. Jon Blow is writing the Jai programming language to be a C++ replacement, another one (gingerbill nick) is writing a C replacement known as Odin.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Vlabguy1 on February 06, 2018, 08:19:50 PM
Quote from: LoadWB;835822
This is a sad tarnish to the Cinemaware name.


Soon the name might be Mud.  Which is a very sad thing.  Though I do know someone who recieved their Defender of the Crown game from them.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on February 06, 2018, 08:32:04 PM
@kamelito
Quote
I have seen that you are using C++ isn t plain C faster? Code generation and datas alignement aren t optimal in C++ except if you know your compiler and check what is produced no?
That's all myth and nothing of this is true. Thomas already said most, but let me add some more:

1. C++ has much more features to tell the compiler more closely what you actually want to achieve, which in turn helps the compiler to produce better code.

2. there are certain C++ features that are considered to be "slow". But in general, if you want to achieve the same in plain C you'd actually have to come up with sth. similar to what the C++ compiler would create for you automatically - and in 99% it is much more likely that the C++ compiler is better than you.

3. some C++ "special" features may result in significant overhead (e.g. RTTI or exceptions). But then again, see (2). I usually don't need those beforementioned two features and tell the compiler not to create support-code for them (original T57 uses RTTI, but it's actually unnecessary there, so I got rid of it for the Amiga versions).

4. Regarding alignment Thomas already said pretty much everything. However (and all of the following is true for both C and C++) it's often worth to take a closer look at what the compiler creates when it comes to your structures. Bit-fields, for example, may, depending on compiler, not be lay out as you probably hoped they would (which is why I usually implement those "manually").

Anyway, those are facts. C++ is without doubt the superior language and the generated code is in no way slower than a C equivalent would be, actually it is likely that the contrary is true if you use the features C++ offers wisely.
If you like C++ is a different question. Certainly you'll find lots of devs who dislike it. And you will find lots of devs who like it.

But who cares what others like or dislike.
I like it and I know how to use it to get real fast code.


Quote
Using C++ as a better C or going the OOP road?
C++ gives you the freedom to do chose any of those paths or just mix them.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: odin on February 06, 2018, 09:30:20 PM
What? People in this day and age still preorder and prepay Amiga stuff and then are sad when nothing ever shows up? Have the last 20 years of vapourware and failed plans not taught you anything?
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Plaz on February 07, 2018, 03:31:10 AM
As a one time cinemaware fan I considered a pre-order way back when. But I decided to follow my head instead of my heart and went against. With only a few hundred copies in the balance, it's hard for me to see a future here.


+1   "C++ gives you the freedom to do chose any of those paths or just mix them."

I started going off topic about the C vs C++ bit and decided it belonged in it's own thread.
Follow that bit here if you dare...

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=835851#post835851

Plaz
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: LoadWB on February 09, 2018, 09:31:17 AM
Just received from Sven (mass emailed):

Quote
Hey guys,

first i have to apologize for the long silence. Within the last year i fully worked on different Cinemaware-Products often 24/7. Beside this i´ve got
some health issues which really hit me within december, after a short try of a vacation. At this i made the big mistake to keep complete silence after
i have recieved some anonymous threads against my person, really personal attacks and also two, also anoynmous, death threads (one via mail and within
fake order). This puts me complete on ground. But it´s really not a reason to not inform you. As annoucend the complete distribution will move to an
external shop from Dragonbox. I spoke with Michael, which also got with some of you in touch now and we will reorganize the shop within in the next 2-3
weeks. In this time the Cinemaware-Shop will be closed and no orders shipped. When all the material is moved to the store of Dragonbox we will ship the
boxes immediately. We use this time also to update the Versions of Rocket Ranger with an auto updater and also compatibility to High Sierra. For Wings
RE (Amiga) i will send you at Monday a different Mail with infos for shipping of Wings RE (Amiga). The game is still in development but we now have a version
that also got an auto-updater. In the meantime i will check also all open orders and will get in touch with you one after another.

Thanks again for your big support and for the most of you for the patience

Sven    
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Dr_Procton on February 09, 2018, 11:57:46 AM
I didn't receive this email from him. So I've no hope to get my defender of the crown collection (ordered and paid in 2016!!!). But if he received death threats maybe there are a LOT of people that, like me, didn't receive what they paid for. I think that this letter is a sort of new excuse to take time and not ship newly paid orders..
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: ddniUK on February 09, 2018, 02:14:17 PM
Was going to order Wings.
No prizes for guessing that isn't going to happen now.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: PR on February 09, 2018, 05:20:09 PM
Got the message. I apologised from somebodys threats, how stupid is that?

Get a life.

Maybe it's comming. Well if not, no more support. Simple as that.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Pgovotsos on February 10, 2018, 12:41:58 AM
I got that email also. I'm not sure that I feel good about getting an incomplete product and having to regularly update until (if) it ever gets completed. Reading the developer's blog it doesn't sound like it's at a playable level for the whole game. Looks like a lot of graphics assets, the intro and cut scene animations and the strafing part.

I hope that once (if ever) it is completed they will at least give us access to disk images for the final build. I, obviously, have no idea if they will be in business or have the update servers running the day after they complete the program. If I ever have to reinstall I'll be SOL. Not very cool, to say the least.

At least I got Defender a few months ago and it's pretty nice. If Wings does eventually get completed and at least to the same quality I'll be satisfied. Not particularly happy after all this time, but satisfied.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: LoadWB on February 10, 2018, 02:06:22 AM
I never even received Defender of the Crown.  I guess my order is waiting for full completion?  I dunno.  ISTR DoC was released on GoG in both the revamped and Amiga versions... I could be wrong about that but Imma gonna go look.

Yup: https://www.gog.com/game/defender_of_the_crown
I am not certain if this is supposed to be revamped PC or if it's a self-contained Amiga emulation.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Daytona675x on February 10, 2018, 10:16:54 AM
@Pgovotsos
@all

Only regarding Wings Remastered Amiga, of course:
Please read my previous statement (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=835749&postcount=50) .
To sum it up (and add some more for even more clarity):

- the current box contains an unfinished dev-build.
- it is meant for people who explicitly asked for it, which means they read and agreed to the text below which they should have received before (likely it will be inside the next update mail if you weren't contacted directly).
- if you did not get or not agree to that then you won't get such a box. When I gave that dev-build iso to Sven he had to promise me that he won't just send it out.
- it's no Kickstarter, it's a reservation and the money wasn't touched (at least I can say so for me, all time / work has been invested unpaid for now). If you don't want to wait any longer (and it will take some more time) then cancel your reservation.
- naturally you can't cancel anymore if you are one of those who agreed and got the dev-build-box.
- there are demo builds available that reflect the latest dev-state. Those builds are identical to the iso-builds with the difference that they are stripped down to 10 levels or so.
- forget my blog, I didn't update it for ages and most likely won't do in the future. It doesn't reflect the current state. Better check out the videos, Facebook-page or the demo-builds.

Here's the mentioned important.txt's english version:

Quote
IMPORTANT:

This is NOT the final game!
This is a in-development snapshot from 2018-01-05.
It is buggy and it is not done!
The AOS4 Compositing version is missing on this CD!
The respective renderer is being fully reworked right now.

This version is only meant to be some sort of pre-release
for fans and people who pre-ordered, who explitely asked
for it and who definitely know that what they get is not
the finished game.

However the game contains an online update mechanism which
will take care that you get the real final version
automatically once it's done.

Sorry that this project has become some sort of apparently
neverending story. But well, it is as it is. At least this
version should show you that not too much is missing
anymore.

Best regards,
Daytona675x
The game will be done when it's done. And this will be when I say so.
Really, further speculations won't accelerate that process or change anything.
It is as it is, I'm sorry for underestimating the workload that massively.

Cheers,
Daniel
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Rob on February 10, 2018, 12:13:58 PM
Quote from: Dr_Procton;835944
I didn't receive this email from him. So I've no hope to get my defender of the crown collection (ordered and paid in 2016!!!). But if he received death threats maybe there are a LOT of people that, like me, didn't receive what they paid for. I think that this letter is a sort of new excuse to take time and not ship newly paid orders..


If he is turning everything over to DragonBox, hopefully you get your order after that.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Pgovotsos on February 10, 2018, 04:50:15 PM
@Daniel so when we receive Wings, the regular release version, not the dev build,  it will be the final version? That is great news! That email from Sven said that we would be receiving the incomplete version with auto update as updates become available. It's really confusing when the developer and the publisher give different information. Is it possible to ask Sven to send a clarifying email? I really like your information much better :)

And I forgot to say before - people sending death threats, as Sven mentioned, for a game is just ridiculous. Sending death threats for any reason is wrong, but for a GAME? That's stupid.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Dr_Procton on February 10, 2018, 05:35:32 PM
Quote from: Rob;835992
If he is turning everything over to DragonBox, hopefully you get your order after that.


I think this is another excuse to delay the angry of his customers. The dragonbox thing is an old one for me. He told me about dragonbox handling a long time ago.
My defender of the crown collection will never arrive (and my money never refunded), sad thing for me (beautiful product). Now I can only advise other people to not deal with that guy. I will be glad to apologize publicly to Sven if he manage to deliver the game, even 1 year and half after my (paid)order, but this it's not possible because  that guy have no respect for his customers.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Vlabguy1 on February 10, 2018, 09:05:40 PM
Quote from: Dr_Procton;836004
I think this is another excuse to delay the angry of his customers. The dragonbox thing is an old one for me. He told me about dragonbox handling a long time ago.
My defender of the crown collection will never arrive (and my money never refunded), sad thing for me (beautiful product). Now I can only advise other people to not deal with that guy. I will be glad to apologize publicly to Sven if he manage to deliver the game, even 1 year and half after my (paid)order, but this it's not possible because  that guy have no respect for his customers.


Some have been delivered no?
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: number6 on February 11, 2018, 02:30:24 PM
Quote from: Daytona675x;835984
@Pgovotsos
@all

Only regarding Wings Remastered Amiga, of course:
Please read my previous statement (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=835749&postcount=50) .

Cheers,
Daniel

and from your link above:
Quote
Here's my reply:
I have nothing to do with Defender

I think the people asking about Defender of the Crown would like to know who TO ask, although they appreciate your honesty in stating that you are not the one to ask.

eab posters have similar concerns (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=1218626)
No doubt others do as well.

#6
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Vlabguy1 on February 11, 2018, 05:12:47 PM
Quote from: Pgovotsos;836002
@Daniel so when we receive Wings, the regular release version, not the dev build,  it will be the final version? That is great news! That email from Sven said that we would be receiving the incomplete version with auto update as updates become available. It's really confusing when the developer and the publisher give different information. Is it possible to ask Sven to send a clarifying email? I really like your information much better :)

And I forgot to say before - people sending death threats, as Sven mentioned, for a game is just ridiculous. Sending death threats for any reason is wrong, but for a GAME? That's stupid.


Death threats are just dumb..BUT I do understand the anger by some and sending an “angry” email in the majority of the cases is just to get a response from the reciever.  Especially if the there has been no contact or updates made on the project.

How difficult is it to post progress update the website to curb the influx of pissed off customers.  I for one would have been relentless and ruthless had I ordered and then been ghosted by the company.  

Either way a very unprofessional way to do business and Fu*k with the loyal Amiga community it’s not like we are a huge bunch.

As much as I want to order and support the best puter ever made, I’ll pass for now.

R.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Franktho on February 21, 2018, 10:16:50 PM
Quote from: LoadWB;835943
Just received from Sven (mass emailed):
Curious if anyone has had any further contact since the Feb 9 mass email from Sven/Cinemaware?

The website still allows orders as it did previously.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: F0LLETT on February 23, 2018, 02:11:59 PM
Quote from: Franktho;836416
Curious if anyone has had any further contact since the Feb 9 mass email from Sven/Cinemaware?

The website still allows orders as it did previously.


You know Cinemaware was sold on after canning Rocket Ranger remastered.
So its just sven, nothing to do with Cinemaware now. He has the company Cinemaware Retro, I believe.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: number6 on February 23, 2018, 02:51:28 PM
Quote from: F0LLETT;836487
You know Cinemaware was sold on after canning Rocket Ranger remastered.
So its just sven, nothing to do with Cinemaware now. He has the company Cinemaware Retro, I believe.

So, are you suggesting all of those in the threads on various amiga websites asking about orders concerning failure to deliver on pre-payment for the original Defender of the Crown write to Cinemaware?

Here? (https://www.starbreeze.com/tag/cinemaware/)

#6
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: Rob on February 23, 2018, 06:00:00 PM
@number6

I think Chris just wanted people to be aware that Cinemaware and Cinemaware retro were two separate entities.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: number6 on March 13, 2018, 08:19:59 PM
@thread

More rather distressing posts and advice:

Source (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=1226615#post1226615)

#6
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: number6 on March 18, 2018, 05:22:37 PM
@thread

new appeal for clarification (http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=1228040&postcount=43)

#6
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: LoadWB on March 18, 2018, 06:28:57 PM
Quote from: number6;837498
@thread

new appeal for clarification (http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=1228040&postcount=43)

#6


Excellent.  Think anything will come of it?  I've lost my faith.
Title: Re: Cinemaware's Wings Remastered coming to Amiga NG platforms
Post by: F1Lupo on March 14, 2019, 05:27:51 AM
guys I reached out to Daniel and he was kind enough to give me the latest update below:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Wings: it is almost done since months. Beta testing had already been started but then the project fell into hibernation again 😕
What remains to be done is bug fixing (mostly dogfight AI related; some airplane model LODs need extra love; some other minor stuff), the Compositing render path (all the rendering layer had been rewritten during the project, and the Compositing backend has not been fully reimplemented yet) and some details here and there.

Before anybody asks: no, I have not taken or seen or wanted even a single dime of those preorders so far, when the game is done, then and only then I'll request my share.

And no, the game has not been released yet. There exist packages for people who asked for a CD which only contains a dev demo build from about one year ago.

It is preorders so if people dont want to wait longer they can cancel it and get their money back.

It is done when it's done. I and only I will say when. Any news on that from other sources is nonsense.
Sorry that this has become a neverending story but it is as it is.

Unfortunately this is one of those seldom projects for which I have heavily underestimated the workload (yesyes, T57 too but thats a different story, there the "port" became half of a rewrite because of bad original code).

Wings is no port in the sense that you have some rather portable C code.

It is a game written from scratch with only a pile of partially incomplete or broken or faaar too heavy assets and a few js scripts and such as base. Plus an exe and some youtube vids to check out how it should work and look like.
The conversion and downstripping of the hundreds of 3D models took muuuuuuuch more time than I had thought. So did level "conversion" and especially the testing etc (countless maps you all have to check for little issues caused by buggy original data or because you missed subtle details)

If you spend month after month with sth like that, workflow and motivation doesn't become better 😕And other projects are to be done as well.And other projects are to be done as well.Both for a living and for Amiga.
Anyway, on some day it will be done. I won't trash a project that has costed so much sweat and has come so far."
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so it's 'almost' done but done only when it's done and I for one am very fine with that considering Daniels track record with various successful Amiga projects