Amiga.org

Operating System Specific Discussions => Other Operating Systems => Topic started by: Xenobiotical on July 22, 2010, 08:26:24 PM

Title: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on July 22, 2010, 08:26:24 PM
Hi to all,

finally i found missing chip (4510, 4567 and Dmagic) for my C65 board. I must assemble all pieces. Is there anyone who has Commodore 65 electrical schemes?

Many thanks

Carlo - http://www.retrocommodore.com
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: tone007 on July 22, 2010, 08:55:06 PM
Can only imagine where those chips were hiding.
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Arkhan on July 22, 2010, 09:10:50 PM
Quote from: tone007;571662
Can only imagine where those chips were hiding.


in the pile of lies and daydreams!
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on July 22, 2010, 10:14:12 PM
Oh, i will publish their photo on my website http://www.retrocommodore.com :) between lies and dreams... ;)

All the best

Carlo
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on July 22, 2010, 10:24:50 PM
http://www.retrocommodore.com/retro/notizie/articoli/bill-victor-e-dmagic-il-commodore-65.html

All the best

Carlo
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on July 23, 2010, 02:52:59 PM
No news? :)
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: spirantho on July 23, 2010, 04:27:27 PM
What do you need the schematics for? Are you still missing chips? (And well done on finding those chips! They must have been very tough to find!)
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on July 23, 2010, 05:23:03 PM
Thanks for reply.

I have now missing chips (Bill, Victor and Dmagic). I need schematics to understand which type of quartz i need on the board.

All the best

Carlo
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on July 25, 2010, 09:22:44 AM
No news? :)
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: spirantho on July 26, 2010, 09:27:23 AM
I think everyone's still dumbstruck you managed to find those chips (who did you have to hold to ransom to get them, anyway? :) ).

If all you need are crystals then your best bet is to find a C65 owner (you can find them on any street corner. Or alternatively try the commodore-dedicated websites) and ask him very very nicely to look on his motherboard as it'll be printed on the crystal, and you should be able to get a direct replacement from a donor machine (not a C65!) or from an electronics store.
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Ragoon on July 26, 2010, 12:09:42 PM
On this picture http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/cbm-65-mainboard-huge.jpg the main clock crystal seems to be a 28.375MHz. My guess is that they took the main Amiga clock for parts taken from the Amiga.
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on July 26, 2010, 01:04:50 PM
Oh, it was a lucky thing find them ;) (you may see photos of my chips on http://www.retrocommodore.com). I have seen photos and i'm now searching right quartz. I'll inform you about upadtes and i hope to put online videos and photos of power-on board. :)

All the best

Carlo - http://www.retrocommodore.com
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: B00tDisk on July 26, 2010, 07:25:57 PM
Ironically, I think in turbo mode the C65 probably could've handled Wolfenstein 3d! :P oh well!
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: B00tDisk on July 26, 2010, 07:26:38 PM
and also: is it possible to emulate the C65?
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: rzookol on July 26, 2010, 07:47:31 PM
mess emulates c65
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on July 26, 2010, 10:03:30 PM
and also: is it possible chips reverse engineering?
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: odin on July 26, 2010, 10:53:47 PM
Yes, but you'll need an electron microscope, a very steady hand and a very fine and durable razor =).
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: A1260 on July 26, 2010, 11:05:05 PM
bought fake chips from china havent we?... oh dear....
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on July 27, 2010, 12:40:39 PM
No no, nothing from China. Real CSG chips. 4510, 4567 and Dmagic.

:)
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: stefcep2 on July 27, 2010, 12:57:54 PM
Just out of interest, how much software is out there for this?
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on July 27, 2010, 01:41:59 PM
Very low. C65 was a never released prototype. It will be nice write programs for it. It was a very powerful 8-bit computer.
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on July 30, 2010, 06:08:05 PM
No news? ;)
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: F1Lupo on July 30, 2010, 06:12:14 PM
Quote from: Xenobiotical;571693
http://www.retrocommodore.com/retro/notizie/articoli/bill-victor-e-dmagic-il-commodore-65.html

All the best

Carlo

Dio Mio ! you found the pieces of the holy grail:laughing:..no really where did you manage to get those chips
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on July 30, 2010, 06:14:30 PM
Oh, its a little secret ;)
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: F1Lupo on July 30, 2010, 06:52:57 PM
Quote from: Xenobiotical;572750
Oh, its a little secret ;)


alas the mystical secrets of the grail continue:cool:
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on July 30, 2010, 08:56:03 PM
;)

I hope that someone will join the project to rebuild this old machine. It is a C64 more more powerful and it will be kind write programs with it :)
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on July 31, 2010, 10:06:35 AM
Hi to all. I'm trying to add as many informations as possible about C65 on my website. It may be useful for all, i think. If anyone wants contribute is welcome. Any informations you send will be add on http://www.retrocommodore.com with senders name of course.

Thanks, Carlo
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on August 01, 2010, 04:39:19 PM
No answer? :)
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on August 08, 2010, 07:59:08 AM
No answers? :)
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: spirantho on August 08, 2010, 08:46:12 AM
Quote from: Xenobiotical;573875
No answers? :)


We're all waiting for YOU to tell US. :)

You're asking questions about a very rare and little-understood machine...
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on August 08, 2010, 12:55:31 PM
Also I i'm trying to collect more informations as possible about this machine. Commodore 65 was intended as C64's successor. It will be launched on market in 1991 but original project was closed cause too expensive and lacking of funds. It was an 8-bit computer with a greater graphic capability respect of C64 (video chip was VIC-III instead of C64 VIC-II). More colours, more graphic modes, CPU with more Mhz (3.54 Mhz). A very nice integrated floppies reader (3 and 1/2) and an extended keyboard completed this little jewel. I think the only wrong thing was that this pc was too late with times... infact in 1991 there were already pure 16-bit machines. Ah, its software must be retrocompatible with C64 software: that was a really good thing. If anyone has material and information about this topic, please contact me :) Thanks

Carlo - http://www.retrocommodore.com
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on August 23, 2010, 06:12:40 AM
Dear Friends,

my board is quite ready to "come to life". I'm searching the last component (a Kyocera quartz 28.75 Mhz) and i have found a complete Commodore 65 power supply :)

Stay tuned......

Have a nice day, Carlo
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: skurk on August 23, 2010, 10:03:11 AM
Quote from: odin;572207
Yes, but you'll need an electron microscope, a very steady hand and a very fine and durable razor =).


I know I've said this before, but MAN how I would love if someone made a C65 clone.

Speaking of electron microscopes, I know that a certain Jeri recently purchased one.  I bet she would be interested if anyone out there would donate their chips... :-)
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: A1260 on August 23, 2010, 11:44:29 AM
looks like c65 stuff starts to grow on trees now days... i also would love a cheap c65 clone, if anyone can pull that one of, their in for a buck or two i think. the c64 is getting old and will fall part sometime in the future so a new c64/65 product would be nice...

Xenobiotical, why dont you head over at lemon64 forum with your c65, there you will meet other c65 owners...
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on August 23, 2010, 11:56:24 AM
Thanks Guys for your interest.

I tried. But nobody helped me in my project. Unfortunately I found a lot of difficulties not only in finding the  missing pieces to my tab incomplete but also who has a full Commodore 65  is always reluctant to talk about and share what they have. In fact I  hope to resurrect my card but I still need a Commodore 65 keyboard to  interact with the card and a suitable floppy 3 and 1 / 2 which  powered the C65 machine as it was designed. Maybe you could produce a clone C65  cheap !!!!!

All the best

Carlo
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: jj on August 23, 2010, 12:23:31 PM
Quote from: A1260;572209
bought fake chips from china havent we?... oh dear....

god I thought you had left.   Never got anything nice or helpful  to say have you
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on August 23, 2010, 09:51:07 PM
Now http://www.retrocommodore.com is available even in english :) a big step forward...... ;)

Thanks, Carlo - http://www.retrocommodore.com
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on August 26, 2010, 10:09:18 PM
Quartz found. Let's see if C65 turn on.
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Iggy on August 27, 2010, 02:47:33 AM
Quote from: xenobiotical;576408
quartz found. Let's see if c65 turn on.

well....?!
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: ShawnDude on August 27, 2010, 07:02:46 PM
I have a fully wroking C65, just not a working keyboard, the traces are messed up on the ribbon cable.  A regular Commodore 1541II or 1581 power supply works fine with it too, you don't need a special one for it to work.  I have been pondering about parting with it though.  Any interest in it?
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: skurk on August 27, 2010, 09:13:15 PM
Quote from: ShawnDude;576527
I have a fully wroking C65, just not a working keyboard, the traces are messed up on the ribbon cable.  A regular Commodore 1541II or 1581 power supply works fine with it too, you don't need a special one for it to work.  I have been pondering about parting with it though.  Any interest in it?


Nggghh... dibs!  Trade it for a functional A3K? :)
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: ShawnDude on August 27, 2010, 09:25:37 PM
Its going to take a more than an a3000 to get it.
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: skurk on August 27, 2010, 10:24:20 PM
Quote from: ShawnDude;576543
Its going to take a more than an a3000 to get it.


Hehe.  Oh snap, well it was worth a try :-)
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on September 06, 2010, 09:31:25 PM
Hi Guys,

i'm near to turn on. I have only to place the correct ROM. ROM is the only missing chip on my board (even quartz is ok).

Let's see.... and hope :)

Thanks for following :)

Take care

Carlo
http://www.retrocommodore.com
http://www.ipertermiaroma.it
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on January 31, 2011, 09:18:14 PM
Hi Guys,
 
finally i have all components for C65 board. Unfortunately it doesn't power on. Signals (seen with oscilloscope) are all ok... except for CSG 4510.. it seems dead. I think 4510 chip is broken. Let's see. If anyone has spare parts for Commodore 65, please, contact me.
 
Thanks, Carlo
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on January 31, 2011, 09:21:10 PM
Board video at this address: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shbp57ePTFU
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Tension on February 01, 2011, 02:58:05 AM
No news? :)
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: coldfish on February 01, 2011, 06:12:04 AM
Fascinating project.  I'm not surprised it's hard to find info on the C65, anyone who has one will guard it to protect it's value as a "mythical" object.

I have the poor-mans C65, the C64DTV is a nice advance of the C64 spec.  :)
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: spirantho on February 01, 2011, 09:45:39 AM
Can you list ALL the socketed chips you have on your board please? That is, with the full markings including revision numbers and everything? Maybe we can spot an incompatilibity...

Have you check the address lines on the CPU with an oscilloscope to see if it's running?
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: dabone on February 01, 2011, 12:52:33 PM
I have a c65 with missing chips also.
Xeno had contacted me and I was going to get it out of storage and maybe sell it off. But after I got it out and had it in my hands again I decided not to.
 
Mine is a full unit missing the bill, u15, and the rom.
 
Gallery of pics is located here.
 
http://img84.imageshack.us/g/dscn0049q.jpg/
 
What's strange is I googled c65 motherboard and came across this photo.
 
http://www.commodore.ca/gallery/hardware/c65.jpg
 
It's from the same batch, and missing the exact same chips. I always assumed the chips were removed because the board was bad, but maybe this batch never got the chips installed?
 
It's keyboard is 87 and mine is 92, made the same day.
 
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/5794/dscn0056hj.jpg
 
What is the chip at u15 anyway?
 
later,
dabone
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: spirantho on February 01, 2011, 02:07:00 PM
Unfortunately the chances of these boards never being fully populated because they didn't work is rather high - I hope that's not the case here.

I believe U15 is a standard TTL logic chip: a DM74LS125AN in fact - a quad tristate buffer.

It's just possible - but unlikely - that your board would run with the socketed chips Xeno has - what are the revisions on the chips on your board please? Maybe we can get one C65 working...
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: danwood on February 01, 2011, 04:46:15 PM
Quote from: Xenobiotical;611317
Hi Guys,
 
finally i have all components for C65 board. Unfortunately it doesn't power on. Signals (seen with oscilloscope) are all ok... except for CSG 4510.. it seems dead. I think 4510 chip is broken. Let's see. If anyone has spare parts for Commodore 65, please, contact me.
 
Thanks, Carlo


If you wanted another power-supply, I remember hearing that the CD32 power supply was the ones originally made for the C65.. infact your photo is identical to my CD32 supply, even down to the sticker underneath which also says "PSU C65".
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: Xenobiotical on February 02, 2011, 07:18:28 PM
Dear Friends,
 
i'm now sure that my only problem in CSG 4510 (Victor CPU). All other components are ok.
 
Take care
 
Carlo
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: spirantho on February 02, 2011, 11:35:39 PM
Remember you need a revision 3 or 4 Victor chip for a rev. 2B board. A 4510R5 (which is what you have on the first page of the thread) will *not* work in a 2B  - the pin-outs are different - you need a 4510R3 or 4510R4.

I feel a bit bad for having to say that - it's like saying to someone "oh, that hen's tooth is no good, it's an incisor and you need a canine" (for the benefit of people outside the UK, "as rare as hen's teeth" means exceedingly hard to find).

Maybe someone out there has a rev. 3 or later board and a rev 3 or 4 4510? That'd be good for both of you!
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: dabone on February 02, 2011, 11:58:10 PM
Quote
what are the revisions on the chips on your board please?

 
U3 - 390491-02 71-FDC
U4 & U5 8580R5 Sids
U7 DMagic - 4151R0-018
Victor - (Can't see the socket number) 4510 (no rev, last line is 1690 52)
U11 - Elmer - Hand written label - ELMER1.35A9
Rom is missing.
 
Mine is a rev 2a, so my cpu will not work for you.
 
Later,
dabone
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: spirantho on February 03, 2011, 08:49:58 AM
Actually, it will - if your CPU belongs to your board then it must be an pre-R5, which means it would work.
I suspect you may be getting a mail from Xenobiotical quite soon....
Title: Re: Commodore 65 electrical scheme
Post by: pwermonger on February 03, 2011, 02:37:42 PM
Quote from: danwood;611497
If you wanted another power-supply, I remember hearing that the CD32 power supply was the ones originally made for the C65.. infact your photo is identical to my CD32 supply, even down to the sticker underneath which also says "PSU C65".

It also is the same Power Supply that the 1581 3.5" floppy drive used. Possibly also the 1541-II. Seems Commodore was trying to consolodate their power supply types at the time to cut costs so were reusing them where possible on different systems.