Amiga.org

Amiga.org specific forums => Amiga.org Discussion and Site Feedback => Topic started by: Wayne on August 19, 2009, 03:34:10 PM

Title: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 19, 2009, 03:34:10 PM
Good morning guys,

A few years ago on April Fool's Day, I played a prank where I "sold Amiga.org to Spanish lesbians".  

It was pretty funny back then, and everyone was both laughing and furious at me for weeks. Some even abandoned the site over it, but then again, there are always rats looking to jump ship.

For the last few years, it's been a running joke amongst friends that I should truly sell the site to real spanish lesbians and move on. As always, there's a bit of truth in every joke.

The simple fact is that while I started out being one of the devout fanboys when the community was 200,000 strong, and I loved everything Amiga, I haven't felt that way in many years. In truth, I don't feel that way about ANY computer platform any more.

The result is that running the site itself -- while rewarding -- has been an increasing struggle for me, since I don't use or follow all the drama as closely as I once did. Kind of like a soap opera. I grew up addicted, but over the years too many actors and storylines have changed to keep my interest.

So what does this mean?

Effectively, it means that I'm beginning an active search for someone both able, and interested in buying, then taking over the site.

It could be one person, or a group of partners, but after 15 years of solid dedication, in order to "buy me out", the cost is $10,000 USD.

I know most of the remaining fanboys will start screaming about how I don't have the right to sell the site, or to even expect money for my blood, sweat, and tears, but that 10k is 1/2 of what it's worth, and 1/2 of what I was asking just 5 years ago. It's also one hell of a low price for 15 YEARS of my life.

I just need to pay off some debt and move forward in my life. I can't do that if I spend most of my free time here administering the site and worrying about hackers and/or spammers.

10,000 USD. Less than some of you spend on Amiga hardware in a year, can buy you the one, single, unique thing still active and worth something in the Amiga universe.

If no one reads this, and I'm sure no one will, I'm considering putting the site up on eBay on a "until it sells" basis with a reserve on October 1st.

Lock, stock, and barrel.

During which the site would still be left running and all, and I'll continue to do anything I can to make it better for everyone. I'm just tired of feeling like I need a vacation from what should be a hobby endeavor.

It's been an honor serving this community and all my friends in it for these 15 years. A time I'll never forget, but it's time for me to move forward.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Gavilan on August 19, 2009, 03:50:47 PM
Wayne: i truly respect and understand each and every single sentence you wrote.
I may or may not agree in some points with you, but, since you are the "Commander of the ship", you have the right to say what you have just expressed, and i consider that you have done for the Amiga community much, much more than a lot would even dream of.

Pity, sadly to read this. Its been one of the most shocking news i have read in a while relating Amigaland, believe me.

The site without you, is not simple the same. Believe me on that.

And also, believe that if i had that money, i would be the first to jump on the ship and continue your legacy

Unfortunately, im far, far away of having that amount, but i consider it "symbolic", for all what you have achieved all over this years with the site, the biggest Amiga-reference site on the net. Period.

Somebody can agree, somebody can disagree with me and with you, but i, for one, respect 100% your decition. (Or desition? excuse my sometimes horrible english)

But, maybe some of the most "famous" A.org users can make a collect to raise the funds?

Maybe we can even set up a PayPal account to achieve that amount?

I dont know, i know someone will just shout out saying that "you should donate the site to the community" and all that bla bla bla....but, again, i respect and im honoured to have been a member here for so long, and i would love to do anything that is at my hands to keep the site here!!!

The site belong to all of us (if you know what i mean), so maybe we can make a little effort, everyone, to raise up those 10.000 dollars Wayne is asking, and i guess nobody can reproach anything to Wayne at this very moment...

Wayne, even tough we only had a few talks over mails, i truly respect you and what you have done (by far, much more than, for example, A.Inc themselves), and i truly wish you ALL the best in anything you go for the future

I really hope someday you can come back here, this will always be "your home", and of course, if you lost interest in ANY machines...well, it can happen...it depends on your moods and lot of other factors...

In fact, myself, im having a terrible time, both in health and in finantial situation, thats keeping me away of almost anything, but one of the few things that "keep me alive and kicking" is Amigaland

Saying all this..Wayne, all the best, and people, come on, its time to behave as a truly united community once again, and do the best to keep the site up and running!!!!

Oh, BTW, this site its been almost my home in the net for many years as well...

Peace

Sebastian
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: tonyyeb on August 19, 2009, 03:50:47 PM
Time for either the community to:

1. Club together and buy Amiga.org

2. Setup an alternative

3. Let Spanish lesbians take over...

Number 3 gets my vote.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 19, 2009, 03:56:48 PM
Sebastian,

I'm terribly sorry to hear about your health issues, but truly appreciate your message of support.

It's not that I'm turning off the light and walking away from the site.  I just think there are a few people in this community who could do a far better job than I do at supporting the site and community itself.  

15 years ago when I had an intern job and 6 hours a day to play on the site, I kept up with everything.  Now I barely have time to keep up with my own life.

Wayne
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 19, 2009, 03:57:27 PM
Quote from: tonyyeb;519946
Number 3 gets my vote.

Helpful as always I see  :roflmao:
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Karlos on August 19, 2009, 04:03:44 PM
buh... I live here... *violin*
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 19, 2009, 04:11:47 PM
Quote from: Karlos;519951
buh... I live here... *violin*
You're more than welcome to stay.  We have a special room reserved just for you.  The rent however might fluctuate with the new landlord.. :)

Wayne
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: tonyyeb on August 19, 2009, 04:21:31 PM
Quote from: Wayne;519950
Helpful as always I see  :roflmao:


There should have been a :p after my original message ;)

Speaking from the forum user perspective... To be honest there are lots of Amiga news/forum sites out there for people to choose from. Most people frequent most if not all of them... I hope someone with the desire to continue running 'as-is' takes over but in the same breath I personally wont miss it much if it has to go.

Some people who have been here the whole 15 years or so will differ their opinion... and if they care so much about an Internet site, then they should be the ones looking to buy it.

I don't blame you for selling up, Wayne. If I had an asset that I thought was worth $10k and didn't want it any more... selling it would be my number 1 choice. Good luck in whatever you do in the future... your dedication to this site has been admirable.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 19, 2009, 04:28:22 PM
Since everyone is so well versed at reading between the lines, let me be very specific about a few points...

1) I am *not* talking about closing down Amiga.org any time in the foreseeable future.  The site should continue on without interruption.

2) I just don't feel that I'm the best equipped person to run it to help the community any more.

3) I'm looking for someone who's willing to step up, invest a little bit (about the price of 3 decked out toaster systems) to be able to step in and make this a better place and keep the community going the way this site deserves.

4) I have no intention of giving away 15 years worth of work for free.  Whether or not you agree with that statement is irrelevant, but I guarantee each of you that if you REALLY thought about it honestly, NONE of you would invest 15 years into ANY project to give it away for free.

5) The mission of this site is, and always has been to promote the community first, and the computer a distant second.  As such, YOU, the community make up what happens here and what direction we go in as a site.  

5.b) That being said, the operation, ownership of the site and it's related copyrights and content is, and always has been owned by me, or by way of prior commitment, the North Alabama Society of Amiga Users (NASAU) which disbanded circa 2000.

6) I'm simply ready for a new part of my life to begin, and hope each of you understand what I'm trying to say, and to accomplish with this post.  It's more than just money, more than selling the site.  It's about me trying to figure out what makes me happy and move in that direction.

Unfortunately -- due to several factors including my longstanding history with both AI and Genesi -- I'm just at a point where I'm finding it difficult to fein interest any more, and that's not what this site, or this community needs.

Wayne
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 19, 2009, 04:33:25 PM
Chris,

Your attitude, while understandable (and unfortunately all too common), isn't very helpful to this situation.  Yes, if I closed the site today, people would simply wander off to other sites.  Yes, there are people who -- right now -- are already planning to steal all the content off of this site for their own purposes, but I think you truly miss the point.

There may be other sites, but there will never be another Amiga.org.

Wayne
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: skilgannon on August 19, 2009, 04:33:36 PM
Only being an active member here for a while and moreso recently - heck I even fed the Kitty :)  I really enjoy my multiple daily visits here and would be very sad to see it go, so I hope it doesn't if Wayne can't get the asking price.  

Amiga is absolutely not Amiga Inc, or Commodore (with their £3000+ uber PC's).  Amiga is now us.  It's the active community with a badge on it.  We each own a part of that name now as we're the only ones who care any more.

If I can do anything to help raise the funds Wayne needs I will but won't be able to swing $10k past the wife.  It's bad enough getting the odd piece of kit in here these days.  I am however willing to contribute.  

Proposition

- Someone takes ownership of pledges of financial buy in from the community (I would be able to pledge $200 for instance)
- We compile all the pledges to get a value which Wayne may or may not accept (if it doesn't sell on eBay)
- If Wayne accepts then each pledge pay's Wayne their pledge money
- Pledgers go into a pot and vote themselves in to run the site
- Voting is opened to the whole community and whomever gets the most votes - runs the site but doesn't own it per se

I could probably get a contract drawn up that would show percentages of site owned by each of us so that if it was ever sold on - we would get a share of the sale.

What do you all think?

John
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: ZeBeeDee on August 19, 2009, 06:27:23 PM
Quote from: Wayne;519956
Yes, there are people who -- right now -- are already planning to steal all the content off of this site for their own purposes ... *snip*

Had that done to me in the past with a tutorial of mine on here Wayne and it's not pleasent ... all they had to do was ask instead of steal.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: tonyyeb on August 19, 2009, 06:34:12 PM
Quote from: Wayne;519956
Chris,

Your attitude, while understandable (and unfortunately all too common), isn't very helpful to this situation.  Yes, if I closed the site today, people would simply wander off to other sites.  Yes, there are people who -- right now -- are already planning to steal all the content off of this site for their own purposes, but I think you truly miss the point.

There may be other sites, but there will never be another Amiga.org.

Wayne


True. Here is my ideal world for you (remember it is only my opinion expressed on this public forum): You sell amiga.org to a dedicated forum user(s) with the same values as you and things continue as they are. That way everyone gets what they want.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Huxley_D on August 19, 2009, 06:51:17 PM
I just had to chime in with my two cents on this topic:

While I haven't been an active member of the Amiga community for very long (I only recently began restoring / upgrading an A2000), I feel obligated to at least say that of all the retro-computing sites I frequent (lots!), this is by far one of the friendliest, most helpful, and most fun.  I've asked every dumb newbie question possible over the past month or so, and I've been met with an astonishing level of cordial, polite and (most importantly) helpful responses, with nary a discouraging word to be found.

I've been up to my neck in the vintage Apple II / Macintosh hobby for over a decade, and it's been a blast diving into the Commodore scene and finding the same level of enthusiasm and helpfulness I've grown accustomed to in the Apple scene.

While the future of Amiga.org might be a bit hazy right now, I can't help but feel confident that if the majority of us board members keep the spirit of fun and sharing strong, the future can only get brighter for this group.

I'm looking forward to seeing what we can create as Amiga.org transitions into whatever lies ahead!

Huxley
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: lsmart on August 19, 2009, 07:05:18 PM
Want to hear the oppinion of a newcomer to the site? Well here it is:

I don´t think that selling the site will work out. I don´t think anyone who is ready to invest 10k will want to keep Amiga.org the way it is now. Which is sad of course. I think the site is great!

Just a thought: maybe the 15 years you "invested" were really invested in something inside yourself, which nobody could possibly buy. This isn´t saying you should ask for less.

All the best for your auction. And thanks for providing this cool blog-service. I have yet to find anything like it. I was thinking about a subscription, but I will put this idea on hold for now.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: odin on August 19, 2009, 07:21:28 PM
What if nobody is interested and the ebay auction doesn't cough up more than say a couple of thousand?

-edit-
Maybe the Mozilla bounty can be put to something useful now =).
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: save2600 on August 19, 2009, 07:21:30 PM
*Somebody* has to maintain this site. Can't stress enough how important we have a Stateside based Amiga site and forums. I've met LOTS of great folks here (in person and online) where deals and get-togethers have actually gone through. News just keeps getting sadder and sadder these days  :-(
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 19, 2009, 07:24:34 PM
Some just-because stats.  Just because someone was interested;
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 19, 2009, 07:36:36 PM
Quote from: odin;519982
What if nobody is interested and the ebay auction doesn't cough up more than say a couple of thousand?

-edit-
Maybe the Mozilla bounty can be put to something useful now =).

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to extort money from anyone here.  I'm just stating my case and seeing if there's anyone interested.  It would be sad if there's not, as that would indicate to me that I've wasted a whole lot of time trying to support a community that doesn't believe it's worth it, but no one can predict what might happen in the foreseeable future.

My hope is to find someone who's interested in continuing what is, not turning it into something else, but the simple fact is that someone who actually cares about the Amiga would be a better candidate than I to continue supporting the community.   I care about the people here, and the friendships, but not the computer (past or future).  

My time of caring about computers in general is long gone.  I went Mac 3+ years ago and haven't even touched a Windows machine since then (when I can help it).  

Between Amiga Inc getting nowhere, and Genesi screwing me over, I've just had enough.

Now, if you want me to take the site and turn it into a social networking site with the Amiga as a sub-culture, I could do that, but again, where's the payoff in all that effort for me?  When I put up vBulletin, I was actually revitalized for a while and once again felt like part of things, but... Apparently it's a case of running out of new modules and things to try to keep my mind occupied and interested.

In short, I find myself becoming sorely disinterested in the virtual world of the Web and wanting to get back to the real world that is all around me.

In DIRECT answer to your question, if no one is interested, and a standing "until it sells" auction never meets the reserve, the site WOULD **** EVENTUALLY **** close down some day.  NOT today, not tomorrow, next week, or next month, but no one can run a single Web site forever and not lose some measure of interest.

Wayne
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: amigadave on August 19, 2009, 07:36:43 PM
Sad news Wayne, but I saw this coming from many of your posts over the last couple of years.

Thanks for all you have done and I hope after you complete the sale you will drop by from time to time to let us know what you are up to.  Perhaps I'll travel to your part of the country some day and go for a motorcycle ride with you if I still have my bike at that time.

I don't have much monetary resources, but would be willing to join a group of members to help purchase and run the site.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 19, 2009, 07:38:17 PM
Quote from: save2600;519983
*Somebody* has to maintain this site. Can't stress enough how important we have a Stateside based Amiga site and forums. I've met LOTS of great folks here (in person and online) where deals and get-togethers have actually gone through. News just keeps getting sadder and sadder these days  :-(
Again, I've said this clearly, but Amiga.org isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.  I just think it needs someone in the captain's chair who actually appreciates the Amiga for what it is.

I'm surprised Davey, or any of the other exodus sites haven't chimed in.

Wayne
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Aegis on August 19, 2009, 07:56:51 PM
I don't have the time or the knowledge to run a site like Amiga.org but if Wayne (or anybody else on here) wants to start a fund for a buyout I'll put up $1000.

I'm sure there's some active Amiga.org members out there that would love to take over the running of the site - for the sake of what remains of the Amiga and its community it'd be great if we could help them to do so.

Perhaps Cloanto and some of the other remaining Amiga companies would consider contributing too?

Sorry to see you reach this decision Wayne but a heartfelt thank you for keeping the torch burning for all these years.

Aegis.
Title: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: toca180 on August 19, 2009, 08:20:39 PM
Sad news indeed. Good luck Wayne I hope things work out for you. I may not be the most active user but I always enjoy reading the posts here. I hope that the site continues. If someone sets up a community buy out I'm in.

@Wayne
Is this the end for you and Amigas completely?

Robert
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Lurch on August 19, 2009, 08:22:11 PM
Long time lurker :-) I know exactly where you're coming from Wayne :-) Downside is I dont know what I can do from NZ, plus with real life getting in the way I dont have the time to be an admin for a webiste.. wish I could enjoy doing it :-)

I wish you luck with the auction, and $10k seems fair enough to me for the time and effort you've put in.

I just hope the new owners will be like minded and dont rip it a part as nothing else is like amiga.org :-)
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: ZeBeeDee on August 19, 2009, 08:22:57 PM
@ Wayne

Why not turn the site over to the current moderators for a while? It's been said before Wayne that you should take a break from here so here's the perfect oppotunity for you to do so - you even mention the fact that you feel like you need a vacation from here in your first post in the thread.

A.org practically runs itself now so little or no intervention on your part for a few weeks should be unnecessary whilst you go into the wilderness (or to Disneyland lol).

If you still feel the same way when October 1st comes around then so be it ... sell the place.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Lurch on August 19, 2009, 08:26:40 PM
Quote from: ZeBeeDee;519993
@ Wayne

Why not turn the site over to the current moderators for a while? It's been said before Wayne that you should take a break from here so here's the perfect oppotunity for you to do so - you even mention the fact that you feel like you need a vacation from here in your first post in the thread.


Thats not a bad idea, why not do this Wayne.. I'm just worried I wont have the same amiga.org to come to and read :-/
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: oceancrafts on August 19, 2009, 08:32:41 PM
Wow... that's a bit sad. But I can't help but understand your feelings. And I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say that your efforts are truly appreciated.
 
Cheers, mate! :drink:
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: redrumloa on August 19, 2009, 08:57:27 PM
Quote from: ZeBeeDee;519972
Had that done to me in the past with a tutorial of mine on here Wayne and it's not pleasent ... all they had to do was ask instead of steal.

Has happened to me too. I did a How-To on getting a Catweasel Flipper to work under MOS, posted it to AO and within days it was on another site, with exact same pics and text, but someone else taking credit.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 19, 2009, 09:04:32 PM
Quote from: ZeBeeDee;519993
@ Wayne

Why not turn the site over to the current moderators for a while? It's been said before Wayne that you should take a break from here so here's the perfect oppotunity for you to do so - you even mention the fact that you feel like you need a vacation from here in your first post in the thread.

Neat idea, but in practice, it's a no-go.  Most of the current friends operating as moderators rarely even visit the site any more, and several -- like me -- don't even use Amigas any longer.

This is just a test to see if anyone really thinks this site is worth continuing or not.  Like I said, yes, there are other sites, but there's only one Amiga.org, and it's up to everyone reading this thread to figure out what is, and isn't important.  

As for me, a "vacation" isn't the answer.  The site's "pretty much run itself" for far too long and needs someone who's interested in making the site a better place and more worthy of supporting the community than I simply have to give it any more.

Wayne
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: ceaser on August 19, 2009, 09:06:19 PM
I'm not too great with Amiga's either.  Finally figured out how to get a CD-ROM installed in my 4000 along with a nice CD32 emulator finally yesterday.

I asked you to remove some dumb post of mine once and you actually responded to me.  It's a thread I never have to look at again since I fixed the problem now so I won't ever look at it again.

I know a good admin though.  I abandoned Amiga in 1995 only to spend a couple thousand this year to revive it.  I see what you're saying.  Also I don't think there's anything wrong with getting 10k for a site.  We're in the digital age.  Websites get bought and sold like everything else now.

With that said this is without a doubt THEE place to go for Amiga questions.  Every time I have asked for help here, there has been some kind of answer within a 1/2 hour from someone who actually knows what they're talking about.  This is NOT like any other Amiga forum I've found.  No doubt this is a very wonderful site.  When people say "you should ask the community I don't know" in relation to Amiga questions, they mean go to Amiga.org.  Most Amiga forums I've gone to have newest posts from 2004.  Or maybe they'll have a post or two from 2007 after a guy asked a question in 2004.

I've been here only a very short time Wayne but don't be concerned about some other person knowing more than you about some hardware.  And absolutely if it's just not your main hobby anymore then it's not your main hobby.

I hope you find a good friend who wants the site.  These types of deals are so famous for going sour (selling websites).  But from what I've seen you know plenty about Amiga.  And the admin of the site doesn't have to be the most knowledgeable, but just someone who cares.  Sounds real lame.  I know.  Those are my thoughts though.

God bless you Wayne.  This forum is great!
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: ZeBeeDee on August 19, 2009, 09:15:47 PM
@ Wayne

I'll stick a $500 pledge into the pot if one gets organised.

I'd rather be a part of A.org both now and in the future than look at it through places like www.archive.org (http://www.amiga.org/forums/www.archive.org)
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Karlos on August 19, 2009, 09:19:24 PM
Quote from: Wayne;519998
As for me, a "vacation" isn't the answer.  The site's "pretty much run itself" for far too long and needs someone who's interested in making the site a better place and more worthy of supporting the community than I simply have to give it any more.


I think you are downplaying your last update a bit there. Ok, some folks didn't like vB, after many long years of an almost static XOOPS install.

Now, there are new features galore and most of us are quite unfamiliar with them. I think that will change in time.

So in terms of making the site a better place, you've certainly done that. I don't think so many of us are used to change, we were all pretty much contented with the old site which is why it's taking time for people to realise and appreciate how much better it has become.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: B00tDisk on August 19, 2009, 09:26:13 PM
Hey, maybe that one russian (?) kid will buy it and crank it down so it works with ALynx running on an unexpanded A500, and he can then curse at us all in broken english.

:-D
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: JC on August 19, 2009, 09:28:09 PM
I agree, It would be great to have someone that cares about and uses an Amiga running this site.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: gizz72 on August 19, 2009, 09:55:47 PM
@Wayne

Greetings,

These are trying times, eventually every story must come to an end eventually. Moving on and looking that sense of purpose is the only thing that drives each individual. As a one of the many users, wish you luck and happiness in your next endevour. Amiga.org will always and forever be Amiga.org(lesbian site or not), as the name implies, always be a friend. :)

Regards,

Gizz72
Title: Disenchanted...
Post by: X-ray on August 19, 2009, 10:10:36 PM
It is a tough situation, Wayne. I think the word that best describes your feelings (as I understand them) is 'disenchanted.'
 
I took on a huge project of my own and while it wasn't running as long as Amiga.org, it cost me a year's wages (£30k) and exposed me to some difficult and dangerous conditions down in South Africa. I currently have the fruit of those efforts here on my desk: a 700 page manuscript to do with forensics and ballistics. I don't know what price tag I can put on it, but it is all my own work and content and it cannot be published (and I've become 'disenchanted' with trying to do so)
 
There are similarities here. We put in effort into a project or endeavour that we are intensely interested in, and it either doesn't develop into what we had hoped, or we ourselves change direction and realise that what we are working on isn't attractive any longer.
 
Where things differ, is the perceived value of that project. Why is Amiga.org worth $10k?
 
I may have this completely wrong, but in my opinion this board is made up of a static and dynamic component. The static component is who owns the website, its logo, format, database etc. The dynamic component is....well, it is US, the members. We are who made this site what it is, and we contribute and provide most of the site's material. You could even argue that we contribute financially to it by feeding the kitty (admittedly I haven't done this for some time, but I have indeed contributed in the past).
The members are the community, the denizens of this board and without them there is no Amiga.org. It doesn't matter whether they are in the sprout or the broccoli camp, they are as an entity a dynamic and invaluable component of what Amiga.org is.
 
But you can't sell that, or even put a price tag on it. You can't sell US.
It would be different if this was a company and we had all signed contracts, but we come and go as we please, contribute material and advice as we please. Therefore the $10k is for a website that has a definite static component that you own, and an indefinite dynamic component that you don't. A kind of dynamic 'going concern.'
 
It is by no means certain that the usefulness of the site (by virtue of its members' contributions) will remain the same, as there are no guarantees that members will stay, especially if the atmosphere changes or the way this site is run, changes.
 
I wish you the best of luck in getting the $10k and I do understand your reasons for asking for it, but I have to tell you that this is a labour of love. As I remarked in another thread about A4000T doors, 'an item is worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay for it.' You do however have to be prepared for the buyer who divorces the static and tangible component of the site from the dynamic component. Amiga.org is what it is because of several variables, not all of which are under your control and therefore can be sold.
 
I appreciate the work you have done in keeping this site up. I appreciate the work of the moderators (especially Karlos of late) and VERY IMPORTANTLY I appreciate the advice I have received over the years from my fellow Amigans.
 
My Amiga hasn't been used for quite a while and I have been considering selling it. These things happen, I understand why. Members come and go. I miss quite a few of them and many don't post much anymore.
 
It is fine to be disenchanted, it is fine to move on. The question of value is a more difficult one, and nobody will have an answer that everyone agrees with. All the best for the future.
 
That's my 2p.
Title: Re: Disenchanted...
Post by: CSixx on August 19, 2009, 11:02:27 PM
Quote from: X-ray;520014
It is a tough situation, Wayne. I think the word that best describes your feelings (as I understand them) is 'disenchanted.'
 
I took on a huge project of my own and while it wasn't running as long as Amiga.org, it cost me a year's wages (£30k) and exposed me to some difficult and dangerous conditions down in South Africa. I currently have the fruit of those efforts here on my desk: a 700 page manuscript to do with forensics and ballistics. I don't know what price tag I can put on it, but it is all my own work and content and it cannot be published (and I've become 'disenchanted' with trying to do so)
 
There are similarities here. We put in effort into a project or endeavour that we are intensely interested in, and it either doesn't develop into what we had hoped, or we ourselves change direction and realise that what we are working on isn't attractive any longer.
 
Where things differ, is the perceived value of that project. Why is Amiga.org worth $10k?
 
I may have this completely wrong, but in my opinion this board is made up of a static and dynamic component. The static component is who owns the website, its logo, format, database etc. The dynamic component is....well, it is US, the members. We are who made this site what it is, and we contribute and provide most of the site's material. You could even argue that we contribute financially to it by feeding the kitty (admittedly I haven't done this for some time, but I have indeed contributed in the past).
The members are the community, the denizens of this board and without them there is no Amiga.org. It doesn't matter whether they are in the sprout or the broccoli camp, they are as an entity a dynamic and invaluable component of what Amiga.org is.
 
But you can't sell that, or even put a price tag on it. You can't sell US.
It would be different if this was a company and we had all signed contracts, but we come and go as we please, contribute material and advice as we please. Therefore the $10k is for a website that has a definite static component that you own, and an indefinite dynamic component that you don't. A kind of dynamic 'going concern.'
 
It is by no means certain that the usefulness of the site (by virtue of its members' contributions) will remain the same, as there are no guarantees that members will stay, especially if the atmosphere changes or the way this site is run, changes.
 
I wish you the best of luck in getting the $10k and I do understand your reasons for asking for it, but I have to tell you that this is a labour of love. As I remarked in another thread about A4000T doors, 'an item is worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay for it.' You do however have to be prepared for the buyer who divorces the static and tangible component of the site from the dynamic component. Amiga.org is what it is because of several variables, not all of which are under your control and therefore can be sold.
 
I appreciate the work you have done in keeping this site up. I appreciate the work of the moderators (especially Karlos of late) and VERY IMPORTANTLY I appreciate the advice I have received over the years from my fellow Amigans.
 
My Amiga hasn't been used for quite a while and I have been considering selling it. These things happen, I understand why. Members come and go. I miss quite a few of them and many don't post much anymore.
 
It is fine to be disenchanted, it is fine to move on. The question of value is a more difficult one, and nobody will have an answer that everyone agrees with. All the best for the future.
 
That's my 2p.
The community is EXACTLY what sells when website transactions take place...

Microsoft wants Yahoo because of the userbase, not because Microsoft needs a search-engine.

Google bought YouTube because of its userbase, not because it needed the technology.

This is a popular Amiga website. If it had only one user, it wouldn't be worth 10K. The price is directly related to the users, and as such, the userbase is for sale.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: monami on August 19, 2009, 11:36:50 PM
this time next year...
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: kvasir on August 20, 2009, 12:23:41 AM
@Wayne

Finally found the time to read this thread, and wanted to throw in my thanks for this site, I've been on here since around '04 or '05, through some pretty tough times. As an alcoholic who quit drinking in '05, I looked to my old Amiga 1200 as a positive hobby to get back into, and as such have been sober since. This site has been an invaluable resource in my Amiga tinkering pursuits, and if not for my wife and daughter occupying most of my time (As it should be), I would try to scrape up the $10k you would need, especially if you have family you would rather spend time with rather than a keyboard. (I tend to do both, which explains the random characters seen on some of my e-mails. 2y/o daughter likes banging on the keyboard :-D) Anyway, I'm in such a financial rut right now that I can only wish you the best and hope you get what you're asking for with the site. I personally think its worth it! (And I do feel rather guilty about not being able to donate any $$$... been like that for awhile here)
Title: Re: Disenchanted...
Post by: Wayne on August 20, 2009, 01:20:18 AM
@X-ray,

Again, not going to sit here and defend why I -- or anyone -- thinks this site is, or isn't worth what I'm asking.  Frankly, neither would you if someone walked into your house and belittled your work as I feel you have just done mine.

In my mind (and thankfully that of others in this community) this site has tangible value.  Hell, it might be one of the only actual Amiga related things in the world that does.  Value intrinsic in YEARS worth of posts, in thousands of gathered images, in hundreds of articles, and in thousands of comments to said same.  

Absolutely, positively granted.  A lot of those comments, articles, etc were in fact contributed by "you", meaning the community, but the fact that *I* was here at all to collect all the little nibbly bits and make them all accessible is more than almost any of you have done over the years.

Fred Fish didn't write software.  He collected software, and you paid him for it.  The Amiga Web Directory didn't invent links, Kevin Hisel simply gathered them and you all thought he was an Amiga God.  Miriam-Webster didn't make up words, they just collected them and we all buy their dictionaries.  I could go on with example after example but I think you get the point.

I'm not trying to "sell the community".  I'm trying to quietly walk away with a little dignity from a community, and a site (which you are correct, go hand in hand) that frankly I spent 15 years of my life helping to build.

What I don't get, is the need of some to step into a thread like this with negative -- or better stated, discouraging -- comments at all?  It's not like it was a request for discussion.   I've stated my case, clarified my intentions, and stated my asking price for everything that I've worked on for 15 years.  I'm tired, and yes.  "Disenchanted".  

Then you, and a couple of people come along and just feel some unexplainable need to pull your wanker out to tell me how you feel that I'm somehow stupid for even making the offer?

Yes.  This site is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.  Nothing more, nothing less (thank you Captain Obvious  :lol: ).  

As Amiga collectibles go however, I feel compelled to state that Amiga.org is, in fact, more unique than the Walker prototype, the 3000+ or even a mint copy of Detective Stories (Superman #1).   There will never be another AMIGA.ORG.

That being said, I am hoping that several intrepid community members (hopefully friends) will band together and form a consortium of sorts.  Sell shares, elect your own webmaster, do whatever and run the site the way that "you" (the community again) want to run it.  

I already have an offer on the table, but it's what I will generously call "a little low" and contingent on a 90 day window.  Before giving into such an offer, I'd be remiss if I didn't offer it to the very people that help to make it what it is today.

Maybe there isn't anyone in the community (or even a small group of people) who really cares whether or not this site continues.  As others have stated, there are always other web sites, and I'm sure at least one of you have bought a domain and started a bot to rape the content from here already.

Looking at the whole ordeal from my perspective, it would only take the 800 active members each tossing in $13 to a neutral paypal account to solve the whole damned boggle.  200 people at $50.  100 at $100, etcetera.  

I'm not asking anyone here to donate anything btw.  I'm only making a point of how little $10k is in the grand scheme of things.

Who knows?

All I can say is it's messages like yours which continue to add to my deepening depression and only serve to reinforce that I've wasted 15 years of my life dedicated to this site and to trying to support everyone in the first place.

Despite all this ranting, I'm not angry or anything.  I'm really not.  I started this thread to just openly tell people how I feel about the situation with zero intention of changing things at any point in the foreseeable future.  Really.  I'm burned out on computers in general.  

If I had my way right now, I'd almost rather computers didn't exist.  I really have no use for any of them, and the longer this thread continues, the more a few such as yourself convince me that -- current economics aside -- the thrill is gone and it's time to move on.

Who knows?  Perhaps if AI had done something.  Perhaps if Bill Buck hadn't fscked me and others over.   Perhaps if the AI had pushed to go the Mac route like they did with OS X in 1999?  perhaps.. perhaps... perhaps....   Too many variables to care any more.

So far, between just two people in this thread, if someone would only take the initiative to work it all out, you're already 15% of the way there.

Disenchanted indeed...

Wayne
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: kvasir on August 20, 2009, 02:20:53 AM
$US13 would probably be doable here, even. (Stating this before asking the wife, which is dangerous at best :) ) I also would like to re-assure you I fully understand being burned out on Amiga. Lawsuits, vaporware, "spin-offs" seemingly developed out of sheer frustration of progress (or lack thereof). Its sites like this this that help alleviate frustration from the bad news, and allow Amiga users to band together despite lack of any "formal" leadership. That alone is more than I would want to put a price tag on, $10K or not. As well as whatever 3rd party software/hardware was developed simply because people in a global community have an easy way to collaborate. Any of the forums would have provided this, but this one has always been friendly and a pleasure to visit. If somebody sets up a paypal donation, I'll certainly put what I can in it. This isn't asking too much considering how my "hobby" pulled me through some turbulent times (mentioned in prev. post),  and this site had much to do with finding information I needed to learn some truly interesting things about it.

Wayne, I certainly respect and back your decision, and personally, I would walk away from Amiga when the memories will be fond, rather than wait until being embittered about it, there are too many good things the Amiga community has accomplished (and you promoted with this site) to remember. I truly hope none of my comments are not interpreted negatively, they're not intended as such. If what I've seen in the Amiga community in the past persists, I'm sure A.org will live on. (And not host spanish speaking women infatuated with the number "sesenta y nueve", though I'd probably still drop in if that was the case :lol: )  Joking aside, the 15 years you put into this are appreciated, and again I wish you luck in whatever pursuits you follow.
Title: Re: Disenchanted...
Post by: cecilia on August 20, 2009, 02:44:12 AM
Amiga org is part of our history

and I want to thank Wayne for taking care of that all these years
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Vlabguy1 on August 20, 2009, 03:01:52 AM
Have not been on..or posted in a while..but it is my home page when I open Safari, and Firefox.  This post def. caught my attention, sadly I have to admit :-(.   I played the lotto.. I suggest every member play their local/state lotto games..you never know.

I hope and wish Amiga.org bright and happy days.  Are you going to sell the site to an Amiga fan?? or just someone who comes up with the money first??


Rich
ny






Quote from: Wayne;519942
Good morning guys,

A few years ago on April Fool's Day, I played a prank where I "sold Amiga.org to Spanish lesbians".  

It was pretty funny back then, and everyone was both laughing and furious at me for weeks. Some even abandoned the site over it, but then again, there are always rats looking to jump ship.

For the last few years, it's been a running joke amongst friends that I should truly sell the site to real spanish lesbians and move on. As always, there's a bit of truth in every joke.

The simple fact is that while I started out being one of the devout fanboys when the community was 200,000 strong, and I loved everything Amiga, I haven't felt that way in many years. In truth, I don't feel that way about ANY computer platform any more.

The result is that running the site itself -- while rewarding -- has been an increasing struggle for me, since I don't use or follow all the drama as closely as I once did. Kind of like a soap opera. I grew up addicted, but over the years too many actors and storylines have changed to keep my interest.

So what does this mean?

Effectively, it means that I'm beginning an active search for someone both able, and interested in buying, then taking over the site.

It could be one person, or a group of partners, but after 15 years of solid dedication, in order to "buy me out", the cost is $10,000 USD.

I know most of the remaining fanboys will start screaming about how I don't have the right to sell the site, or to even expect money for my blood, sweat, and tears, but that 10k is 1/2 of what it's worth, and 1/2 of what I was asking just 5 years ago. It's also one hell of a low price for 15 YEARS of my life.

I just need to pay off some debt and move forward in my life. I can't do that if I spend most of my free time here administering the site and worrying about hackers and/or spammers.

10,000 USD. Less than some of you spend on Amiga hardware in a year, can buy you the one, single, unique thing still active and worth something in the Amiga universe.

If no one reads this, and I'm sure no one will, I'm considering putting the site up on eBay on a "until it sells" basis with a reserve on October 1st.

Lock, stock, and barrel.

During which the site would still be left running and all, and I'll continue to do anything I can to make it better for everyone. I'm just tired of feeling like I need a vacation from what should be a hobby endeavor.

It's been an honor serving this community and all my friends in it for these 15 years. A time I'll never forget, but it's time for me to move forward.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: F1Lupo on August 20, 2009, 03:05:49 AM
Quote from: Wayne;519942

.....during which the site would still be left running and all, and I'll continue to do anything I can to make it better for everyone. I'm just tired of feeling like I need a vacation from what should be a hobby endeavor.

It's been an honor serving this community and all my friends in it for these 15 years. A time I'll never forget, but it's time for me to move forward.

Wayne, I totally understand and agree that spare time is very very hard to come by as we get older and work and family responsibilities come into play....Amiga time is my down time and I enjoy it..I hope you can sell the site for a nice amount of money and hopefully to pay you back for all the hard work and dedication you paid over the years to the Amiga community!

btw, I'll gladly donate some money if the community wants to get together to buy Amiga.org!
Title: Re: Disenchanted...
Post by: buzz on August 20, 2009, 03:36:05 AM
Quote
Fred Fish didn't write software. He collected software, and you paid him for it.
This is not true. He did write software, and his fish disks were distributed for the cost of a disk, and free by other means (bbs's etc). he was a supporter of GPL also.

Quote
All I can say is it's messages like yours which continue to add to my deepening depression and only serve to reinforce that I've wasted 15 years of my life dedicated to this site and to trying to support everyone in the first place.

I dont see how you took his comment this way. I'm sure in the last 15 years, you have done things for more than a monetary reward at the end, and people like the site and contribute which shows their support. I don't personally believe it has a value as you think, and I think there are sometimes more important things than money.
Title: Re: Disenchanted...
Post by: Wayne on August 20, 2009, 04:21:09 AM
Quote from: buzz;520063
I think there are sometimes more important things than money.
You're entitled to that thought, and to your opinion as it were, but as I said, to me, the Amiga soap opera simply isn't one of them.  I do see where you're trying to slip in the fanboy mantra of "you should just give it away for free because the Amiga is more important than you".  

I'm clearly baffled as to how you think I would in ANY way be "profiting" from such a sale considering everything I've done for both the site, and the community over the years.  How much is 15 years of your life and constant dedication worth to you?  

Besides, even if I were making obscene profits as you seem to want to suggest (which I'm not), the question remains...  So what?

The problem, hence the hole in your subtle suggestion is that -- as I've tried to explain -- I'm burnt out on "the greater good".  I'm no longer really interested in computers, but in the same breath, this site is indeed like my child.  As such, I want to find someone who's willing -- and able -- to step up, buy the site, and keep it going.  

Much like the Excalibur test, the person or persons who are willing to step up and invest in it will be someone I'm assured won't easily take the site and run it into the ground.

Running a site like this takes dedication, and frankly, 15 years worth of dealing with all the constant red vs blue, squabbling, bitching, and backstabbing betwixt site members (and even site members going out of their way to sabotage AI)  is just more than I care to deal with any more.

Indeed, I'm not interested in "the greater good" and/or giving away 15 years worth of blood, sweat, and tears.  You wouldn't either if the roles were reversed, I guarantee ANY of you would feel the same way I do.

The question remains.  If the site is worth something to the community, someone will step up.  If not, then there's no point in me spending any more of my life trying to keep it going day to day.  I hate that fact, but there it is.

Wayne
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: NovaCoder on August 20, 2009, 04:34:07 AM
Quote from: klx300r;520062
Wayne, I totally understand and agree that spare time is very very hard to come by as we get older and work and family responsibilities come into play....Amiga time is my down time and I enjoy it..I hope you can sell the site for a nice amount of money and hopefully to pay you back for all the hard work and dedication you paid over the years to the Amiga community!

btw, I'll gladly donate some money if the community wants to get together to buy Amiga.org!



X2
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: covansky on August 20, 2009, 05:01:45 AM
Hi wayne, I'm Spanish, from Barcelona, I ask you to please continue this great work, you are our strength ... I love to friend and I'm sick of seeing the best in this great adventure will be ... us not, that you're one of the best .... please ...
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: X-ray on August 20, 2009, 05:24:11 AM
"...Then you, and a couple of people come along and just feel some unexplainable need to pull your wanker out to tell me how you feel that I'm somehow stupid for even making the offer?..."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
You know, Wayne, it is one thing to completely misinterpret my post, but it is another thing to try to put words in my mouth. You just dropped several notches in my estimation.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: kickstart on August 20, 2009, 05:29:15 AM
Well if you want to sell this maybe you can share the money back with the most active users (not me of course), theres some amiga forums if this site dissapears people move to another one and end of history, dont take it bad but this is the reality.
Title: Re: Disenchanted...
Post by: buzz on August 20, 2009, 05:43:47 AM
Quote from: Wayne;520066
You're entitled to that thought, and to your opinion as it were, but as I said, to me, the Amiga soap opera simply isn't one of them.  I do see where you're trying to slip in the fanboy mantra of "you should just give it away for free because the Amiga is more important than you".

Actually that wasnt quite what I was thinking.

Quote
I'm clearly baffled as to how you think I would in ANY way be "profiting" from such a sale considering everything I've done for both the site, and the community over the years.  How much is 15 years of your life and constant dedication worth to you?  

I'm sure you have done plenty. But don't forget sites like this are built on the userbase and contributions too.

For me, the last 15 years is worth the experience and enjoyment I have got from it. I did things for the fun. I don't understand how you are looking back needing some kind of value for the time. When you started the site it was because you enjoyed running it surely?

Quote
Indeed, I'm not interested in "the greater good" and/or giving away 15 years worth of blood, sweat, and tears.  You wouldn't either if the roles were reversed, I guarantee ANY of you would feel the same way I do.

you are wrong there. I already do, in the way that my(our) site and information is licensed.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Marcb on August 20, 2009, 07:49:00 AM
@Wayne
 
I applaud your honesty, if your heart is not in it then no arrangement of words by way of reply on here is going to reignite that passion, however, I hope that you reconsider...
 
Either way, thank you for the hard work you have put in to keeping this corner of the internet a haven for Amiga users, ex-users and fan boys alike, sure there are other Amiga sites, but as you said, there is only one Amiga.org.
 
 
@All
 
Unless there is a single individual out there that has both the $ and ability to keep Amiga.org running as it is, I suggest we start talking about a community purchase of Amiga.org.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: motorollin on August 20, 2009, 10:10:40 AM
My life wouldn't be the same without this site. I will be honest though. As a student I cannot commit large sums of money to buy amiga.org, neither can I commit large amounts of time to run it. As much as I would love to say "put me down for a donation of x, and y hours per week administrating the site", I'm not prepared to do that when there's a good chance I won't be able to honour those commitments. As much as it would pain me to see this site and its community disappear, there's little I can do about it.

What I can offer is my thanks to everyone who has been involved in amiga.org's inception, day-to-day running and maintenance. This has been a great community over the years and I will always be grateful for the help I have received with Amiga-related problems, and even more-so for the friends I have made during my time here.

Finally, if a significant number of people agree to club together to buy the site, such that individual contributions will be relatively small, I will unquestionably consider contributing.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: ElPolloDiabl on August 20, 2009, 10:34:43 AM
At least we had some good times here. Let it fade away. Amiga the pseudo company that is holding us to ransom is probably to blame. Amiga is not cursed, it's just that nobody really gave the Amiga a chance. See you around guys... ???:(
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: coldfish on August 20, 2009, 10:58:24 AM
'twas only a matter of time.

I can dig where Wayne is coming from, and hope he can get something for all the time and effort he's put in?

g'luck.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: whabang on August 20, 2009, 11:18:55 AM
I, for one, welcome our lesbian overlords.

This site was one of the first ones I ever visited back when I took my first steps out on the net back in '95, and I while I'm not posting as much as I used to, I have been a regular and registrered member for about ten years.

I alone, must have spent many thousands of megabytes of bandwidth visiting this site, and when the site peaked, around 2003-2004, there must have been considerable hosting costs involved.

If people think that this site, and the part of the Amiga community remains alive because of it, are more important than a person or than an undisclosed ammount of money, then feel free to pay up and buy the site! The .org will be saved, and I will be here along with it. And I will not be alone. Many of us oldtimers are still lurking around, and new ownership won't affect that.

Wayne has keept this site running for longer than most other Amiga-sites around, and while there has been donations from the community, I cannot imagine that all costs, not to mention all the time spent on the site, have been paid for. And now people are whining because he actually wants some compensation for all that? Geez!

Thanks for those years, Wayne! You have done an excellent job running this service for the community, and I hope you get something for all that trouble. You deserve it.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: gertsy on August 20, 2009, 11:46:27 AM
@whabang; Negative me, never thought of the upside..
If we have lesbian overlords they WILL have to punish us for being naughty.
But knowing our luck they will be ugly fat chicks from the island of Lesbos.

One thing that will never change is change.  And it's always when I start to take something for granted..

Gertsy
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: the_leander on August 20, 2009, 12:08:27 PM
Quote from: motorollin;520094
My life wouldn't be the same without this site. I will be honest though. As a student I cannot commit large sums of money to buy amiga.org, neither can I commit large amounts of time to run it. As much as I would love to say "put me down for a donation of x, and y hours per week administrating the site", I'm not prepared to do that when there's a good chance I won't be able to honour those commitments. As much as it would pain me to see this site and its community disappear, there's little I can do about it.

What I can offer is my thanks to everyone who has been involved in amiga.org's inception, day-to-day running and maintenance. This has been a great community over the years and I will always be grateful for the help I have received with Amiga-related problems, and even more-so for the friends I have made during my time here.

Finally, if a significant number of people agree to club together to buy the site, such that individual contributions will be relatively small, I will unquestionably consider contributing.


This pretty much covers it for me.

Wayne, from the bottom of my heart, thankyou for keeping this place going. It's been an honour and a privilage.

Namaste.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Boot_WB on August 20, 2009, 12:30:09 PM
Quote from: motorollin;520094
My life wouldn't be the same without this site. I will be honest though. As a student I cannot commit large sums of money to buy amiga.org, neither can I commit large amounts of time to run it. As much as I would love to say "put me down for a donation of x, and y hours per week administrating the site", I'm not prepared to do that when there's a good chance I won't be able to honour those commitments. As much as it would pain me to see this site and its community disappear, there's little I can do about it.

What I can offer is my thanks to everyone who has been involved in amiga.org's inception, day-to-day running and maintenance. This has been a great community over the years and I will always be grateful for the help I have received with Amiga-related problems, and even more-so for the friends I have made during my time here.

Finally, if a significant number of people agree to club together to buy the site, such that individual contributions will be relatively small, I will unquestionably consider contributing.

As Motorollin' speaks, so speaks my country.

Wayne, I wish you nothing but the best future, and thanks for creating and running this site for so many years.

I feel for the people who have currently "dropped out" of the Amiga scene for a while, and in the course of time will think "I wonder what's going on over at A.org these days.." only to find that the site has closed. For me, that will signal a major step in the demise of the community.

Whatever your sutuation at the moment (and over the coming months), I hope you take with you the overwhelming awareness that there are hundreds (if not thousands) of people genuinely wishing you well for the future, and who would shake your hand if they met you on the street. Not only for having run this site, but for being a genuinely nice guy who is approachable and generally fair (we all have our bad days :-) ). There's not many people in the world who can say that.

I hope you find a buyer, or an amicable arrangement which keeps you happy (ie retain ownership, but delegate all operations).

Whatever happens, all the best for the future. So long, and thanks for all the fish. I hope that we will see you again.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Akiko on August 20, 2009, 01:19:15 PM
I'm willing to contribute $100 or so.. I'm sure there there must be at least another 99 members would do the same!

I think it's so important to try have Amiga.org owned by many commited members as possible, rather than say one or two individuals that *could* franky shut down or bastardize this site at any time.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Karlos on August 20, 2009, 01:28:33 PM
I think a bit less melodrama is called for.

Everybody seems so quick to assume the site is just going to be taken offline and disappear. That it isn't what Wayne said:

Quote
Again, I've said this clearly, but Amiga.org isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future. I just think it needs someone in the captain's chair who actually appreciates the Amiga for what it is.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 20, 2009, 01:38:45 PM
Quote from: Karlos;520129
I think a bit less melodrama is called for.

Everybody seems so quick to assume the site is just going to be taken offline and disappear. That it isn't what Wayne said:

Thanks Karlos,

Re-reading the thread, I've emphasized exactly that at least 4 separate times, but this *is* the Amiga community where apparently no one can be taken at their word but what's between the lines.

The site isn't going anywhere.

What no longer exists is any interest on my part to do more than let it run on Auto-pilot.  A feeling that I've had for a long while, but is resurfacing after the upgrade to vB has been completed.  

In that, I'm sure I'm no different than Davey (AW), or John (Moo), or Targhan (MZ), or any other Amiga webmaster, and that's not what this community deserves.

Where I'm getting upset is the rather rude suggestions that the site has no tangible value, to which I vehemently disagree.  I'm also upset because as much as people suggest this place means to them, no one seems to be interested in stepping up to the plate to prove it.   I certainly understand that on a global scale, this is the wrong time for it, but still...

Being told that a life's work is worthless is... disenchanting to say the least.

Wayne
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: the_leander on August 20, 2009, 02:04:49 PM
I've said my bit in private but I'll say a little more in public.

I understood Wayne's position, my comment in this thread was perhaps poorly worded.

To say this place has no value, intrinsic or otherwise would to fly in the face of the evidence.

Here we are, it's 2009, some 15 years after the death of Commodore. This place isn't just about the Amiga any more, it is a community in it's own right.

If I had the cash I'd gladly give it without a second thought. All I have atm though is time.

And yes, as someone else who has a longterm project on the go, the idea of being told it's worthless is a hidious thought. Shame on those who think otherwise.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Mightyzorlac on August 20, 2009, 02:35:37 PM
:)I just want to thank Wayne for all his hardwork, dedication and time in making this the best Amiga site on the net .
 
This site is my one of my favourite places to visit on the net, I would be truely sad (and a bit lost ) if this site ever shut or changed hands.
 
But I understand with the current situation and support you in any decession you make , your a founding pilliar and a credit to the whole Amiga community wayne, you have made a real defference in keeping the sprit of Amiga alive in these very dark days and I just want to thank you for giving me hope still.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Raffaele on August 20, 2009, 02:36:18 PM
Quote from: Wayne;519942

I just need to pay off some debt and move forward in my life. I can't do that if I spend most of my free time here administering the site and worrying about hackers and/or spammers.

10,000 USD. Less than some of you spend on Amiga hardware in a year, can buy you the one, single, unique thing still active and worth something in the Amiga universe.

If no one reads this, and I'm sure no one will, I'm considering putting the site up on eBay on a "until it sells" basis with a reserve on October 1st.

Lock, stock, and barrel.

During which the site would still be left running and all, and I'll continue to do anything I can to make it better for everyone. I'm just tired of feeling like I need a vacation from what should be a hobby endeavor.

It's been an honor serving this community and all my friends in it for these 15 years. A time I'll never forget, but it's time for me to move forward.


Actyually a smart move will be to keep the site online with users donations and let it be administrated by volunteers who will take your place and let you free for other things, and mainly keeping you more free time for some spare work that will help you pay your debts.

And if you are so lucky to find a buyer for the site, then it will be fine for you and for the users...
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: cgutjahr on August 20, 2009, 02:44:23 PM
Quote from: Karlos;520129
Everybody seems so quick to assume the site is just going to be taken offline and disappear. That it isn't what Wayne said:

The problem is this: Everybody - except, as usual, Wayne - knows that this site isn't going to sell for 10,000 USD. It would be insane to pay that much, period.

He's not going to get what he's asking for - the question is how he's going to react. Having witnessed Wayne's reactions to similar problems in the past, I have my doubts if amiga.org will survive this.

And a few more observations:

99% of the content of this site are forum postings. These postings are owned by their authors, not by Wayne - hence he can't sell them. He can only sell the domain and the existing infrastructure.

Without you, who spent quite some time to migrate the content from the old CMS to the new one, all that Wayne could sell would be a domain and an empty forum. You don't seem to care, but the timing of events...

1. Wayne complaining that he needs to upgrade the CMS, because "running a.org wouldn't be fun anymore if we don't"
2. Karlos investing lots of hours to migrate the content
3. Wayne trying to sell the whole shebang for an insane amount of money because "running a.org is no fun anymore"

makes me feel uneasy.

Guys, this is just a domain. It's a nice one, with a lot of history, but it's just a domain. Get over it, set up an alternative (like other people did in the past) and use your money to support ongoing Amiga efforts.

That said: amiga.org is/was great, I loved it. Thanks to everybody who kept it running for such a long time. For that you'll always be fondly remembered Wayne. Thanks a lot.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 20, 2009, 03:15:34 PM
Quote from: cgutjahr;520142
The problem is this: Everybody - except, as usual, Wayne - knows that this site isn't going to sell for 10,000 USD. It would be insane to pay that much, period.

He's not going to get what he's asking for - the question is how he's going to react. Having witnessed Wayne's reactions to similar problems in the past, I have my doubts if amiga.org will survive this.
Thanks for your vote of confidence, and the not so subtle insults.  Very helpful. I wondered when the trolls would show up.  My response wouldn't be nearly as helpful, albeit much shorter.

Quote
99% of the content of this site are forum postings. These postings are owned by their authors, not by Wayne - hence he can't sell them. He can only sell the domain and the existing infrastructure.
Absolutely, unequivocably wrong.  Period.  Not even a point of discussion.  the content posted on ANY site becomes the inherited property of the site, and it's covered in the TOS which has been posted in various versions since 2001.  Same with Moobunny, same with AW, same with MZ, same with *any* site.

When Microsoft bought out yahoo, did all the links go away?  When Google bought out YouTube, did all the videos disappear?  No.  The end-user still has the right to delete their videos (or in our case, each of your posts/contributions) but in absolute fact, the content is part of the site and inseparable as such.

Edit: if you want to consider it "selling the domain and getting free data" then that's fine, but whomever purchases the domain gets the whole ball of wax, not just the domain name.  Whether or not that makes you uneasy or not is completely irrelevant.

Quote
Without you, who spent quite some time to migrate the content from the old CMS to the new one, all that Wayne could sell would be a domain and an empty forum. You don't seem to care, but the timing of events...

1. Wayne complaining that he needs to upgrade the CMS, because "running a.org wouldn't be fun anymore if we don't"
2. Karlos investing lots of hours to migrate the content
3. Wayne trying to sell the whole shebang for an insane amount of money because "running a.org is no fun anymore"

makes me feel uneasy.
You're right about one thing.  We are *all* indebted to Karlos for saving the data from the last x years.  Absolutely.

1) Never complained about "it wouldn't be fun any more".  The upgrade was mandated by the hosting provider's abandonment of PHP 4.  The copy of Xoops that we had was damned near 10 years old, having been used to satisfy the diehard AmigaOS users.  Period.

2) No Argument, and you should thank your sweet bippy that Karlos was here to save the data to begin with.  I could have just as easily done a full, clean reboot without any data.

3) Stop making shit up buckhead.  

- I no longer have any personal interest in anything Amiga
- I want out, and want to make sure that whomever takes over is serious about it
- I have a 15 year vested interest in this site, it's content, and it's copyrights.

For *that* purpose, and *that* purpose alone, there is a price tag associated with it.

The fact that you crawled out from under your rock long enough to come in here and absently attack me for it speaks volumes for what's wrong with this community as a whole, though I do like to believe that 99% of the community is better than this.

Any further insults or attacks will be met in kind.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: ffastback on August 20, 2009, 03:26:57 PM
Quote from: Wayne;519942

10,000 USD. Less than some of you spend on Amiga hardware in a year, can buy you the one, single, unique thing still active and worth something in the Amiga universe.


Are you trying to say Amiga.org is worth 10,000 USD because you think English Amiga Board, Amigans.net, and Amigaworld.net are not worth anything in the Amiga universe?  Maybe you did not mean it that way, can you clarify?
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 20, 2009, 03:30:41 PM
Quote from: ffastback;520147
Are you trying to say Amiga.org is worth 10,000 USD because you think English Amiga Board, Amigans.net, and Amigaworld.net are not worth anything in the Amiga universe?  Maybe you did not mean it that way, can you clarify?
I'm not suggesting anything of the kind, but thanks for twisting my words.

None of the mentioned domain names are AMIGA.ORG, which is what I said.   None of them has been around 15 years, and none of them have anywhere near the amount of historical data this site does.

If the owners of those sites choose to take the same path I have, then more power to them and I wish them luck.

Wayne
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 20, 2009, 03:32:10 PM
Just to be clear, this thread just made moobunny.  While I have a great amount of respect for 90% of the posters over there,  I don't expect it to be civil or troll-free for too much longer.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Gavilan on August 20, 2009, 03:38:11 PM
@cgutjahr

Hi, im sorry, but i totally disagree with you. In more than one sentence.

Maybe for YOU its "only" a domain. Period.

But, reading some of the comments before mine, i have the feeling some people here feels just like me: im not a radical nor an extremist in any way, but AMIGA.ORG has ALWAYS been my HOMEPAGE no matter what machine or where i was: work, home, my mother´s computer, etc etc

Amiga.org was, together with Yahoo!, the very first two sites i surfed in the net back in 1998 if my memory is not wrong!!!!!

I feel this site MORE than "just a domain"

Even tough i didnt post enough like, say, Karlos, or motorollin (Hello moto!), i have been a long time member, and i consider this site as my virtual home in the net. Period.

I feel many of us have the same feelings about this.

Of course, i have only grateful words to Wayne for keeping all this during 15 years (please, read again, 15 years!!! Tell me another site of this nature that has been running for so long please!).

Of course, im in no position of having 10.000 dollars (but hey, if i had them, i wouldnt think it twice, and would send Wayne the money inmediately, just to keep the site alive) at this moment.

But of course im willing to "contribute", at least 100 dollars. Is the LEAST i can do to a place which has given me joy, pleasure, entertainment, knowledge, virtual and real friends...how much is THAT worth? I think there is no prize to be precise, and what Wayne is asking is simple symbolic.

He could ask 100.000 or 200.000 dollars, and i think nobody could even complain about that.

Amiga.orga is unique, in many, many aspects. You have to admit that.
I have been (or still am), member of at least another 5 amiga forums, both in english an in spanish (which is my native language)

And believe me, i ALWAYS “return” here. (Not that im gone, but I mean, I always check the site on a regular basis, not now, due to some health and finantial problems, but I check it very, very often, even if im not logged in)  Why? I dont know exactly, but i found myself more “comfortable” here than anywhere else. Not that im uncomfortable in other Amiga forums, but i just feel part of this community and i dont want to see it disappear.

Its not a matter of "go on, create another Amiga forum". No my friend, this site has "mojo", has its own heart beating, WE, US, the AMIGA COMMUNITY.

And this is a unique opportunity to join efforts, to try to find 1,10,100,500 active members who are willing to commit a community "buyout" (i dont know if thats exactly the name but i guess you understand my point).

I had the chance of meeting here very very friendly, helpful, nice people from anywhere in the world. And i dont want to miss that, either.

Please, understand, i have nothing against you or anybody, im not the kind of person who loves to argue, but i just had to say that even tough you have my full respect (as well as ALL Amiga.org members) i dont agree with your point of view

But, since im not melodramatic and im practical and pragmatical, best choice here is to let Wayne do whatever he wants. After all, he is the one who has achieved this (of course, with the community along) but he deserves what he is asking!!! And nobody has the right to argue with him for that!

So far, i have counted at least 8 active members in this same thread who are willing to contribute with $$$ (it doesnt matter if its 1 dollar, 10 dollars, 100 dollars). The way i see it, its the least we can do for a site which has given us (at least me) so much fun, so much knwoledge, so much endless funny readings, pictures, comments, etc etc etc etc

I say we star another thread to see who is willing to "donate" for the cause.
At this very moment, i can only show my support with 100 bucks, but im positive that if one thing that should be coming in my life near soon is good, i could be able to put more money.

Again, Wayne, saying THANK YOU is not enough, i know, but, its the least we can do.

KEEP THE AMIGA.ORG SPIRIT ALIVE!!

Come one people!!!
Those who are interested, show your support, dont buy 1 Amiga piece of hardware for one month and donate!! :)
Im 100% positive WE can achieve that!!

After that? Who will be moderator and all that? Well, we are all grown ups here, so speaking and listening (well, reading) is good for understanding each other

I could only say, for example 5 or 6 people "I" think should be moderators, even by ther long time relationship with the site, by their knowledge, by the number of posts, etc etc etc

Im not one of those, thats clear. My only intention is to keep this site alive and kicking. I want to help. I want to contributte!

Everybody here have at least one thing in common: our love/passion/commitement to Amiga. Well, i say, lets keep it that way!!!!! It doesnt matter actually if you are no longer an Amiga user, if you are newbie, if you are a returning user, you simple have the Amiga flame inside you! Thats good enough i say!

Excuse me for the long post, but i really had the feeling of saying all of this.

Thanks a lot for your understanding and comprehension, and please apologies if i hurt anybody´s feelings. Since english isnt my first language, sometimes is more than difficult to try to make my ideas clear here on the keyboard...

Sebastian
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: the_leander on August 20, 2009, 03:38:28 PM
Quote from: Wayne;520149
Just to be clear, this thread just made moobunny.  While I have a great amount of respect for 90% of the posters over there,  I don't expect it to be civil or troll-free for too much longer.


Hehe, I was wondering how long it'd take :lol:

Let the games begin! :afro:
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 20, 2009, 03:40:16 PM
That's a good point though.  If, like the trolls, everyone is so caught up on the $10,000 USD figure, why don't you guys get together, figure it out, and make me a REASONABLE offer?

At this point, I may bow out of the thread, because I'm just not into the whole troll fighting defensive thing.  

You guys go back and read my first few posts and you'll understand both what, and why I'd like to accomplish this.  Don't read between the lines.  Don't imagine what you think I meant.  Read what I said and let me know what you guys really think.  

Trolls and naysayers need not apply, because one way or another, a solution will be found.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: ffastback on August 20, 2009, 03:42:24 PM
Quote from: Wayne;520148
I'm not suggesting anything of the kind, but thanks for twisting my words.

None of the mentioned domain names are AMIGA.ORG, which is what I said.   None of them has been around 15 years, and none of them have anywhere near the amount of historical data this site does.

If the owners of those sites choose to take the same path I have, then more power to them and I wish them luck.

Wayne


I asked you a question.  I did not twist your words.  I even said that maybe you did not mean it like it came off and simply asked if you could clarify the statement.  Thats it, pretty simple and basic.  Thanks for clarifying.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 20, 2009, 03:45:02 PM
Quote from: ffastback;520155
I asked you a question.  I did not twist your words.  I even said that maybe you did not mean it like it came off and simply asked if you could clarify the statement.  Thats it, pretty simple and basic.  Thanks for clarifying.
Apologies, and the reason I may bow out of this thread for a bit.  After a few attacks, both here and soon other sites and PM, I'm feeling a little bit defensive and -- as usual, with apologies -- it shows.

I feel like a newly engaged woman who, upon presenting her new engagement ring to her closest friends, gets belittled and told how ugly and worthless the ring is...  :)

Wayne
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: cgutjahr on August 20, 2009, 03:47:39 PM
Quote from: Wayne;520145
Very helpful.
I'm not trying to be helpful.

Quote
Absolutely, unequivocably wrong.  Period.  Not even a point of discussion.  the content posted on ANY site becomes the inherited property of the site,
Perhaps you should do your homework regarding copyright. My postings are owned by me, unless I explicitly transfered ownership to you. Can you point me to the paragraph in the TOS that states that by posting here I automatically transfer my copyrights to you? That's a honest question - I might have missed it.

All I found was this:

Quote
Neither Amiga.org nor it's staff are responsible for the content of user-contributed news items, comments, posts, or other similar entries.
You can either claim you own my postings, or deny reliability for them. Not both at the same time.

Quote
Edit: if you want to consider it "selling the domain and getting free data" then that's fine, but whomever purchases the domain gets the whole ball of wax, not just the domain name.
Of course he does, I didn't mean to imply anything else. But the purchaser would only pay for domain and infrastructure, as you're not entitled to sell the postings.

Quote
Any further insults or attacks will be met in kind.
That's good to hear.

(Edit: Typos)
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: F1Lupo on August 20, 2009, 03:53:55 PM
Quote from: Wayne;520156
Apologies, and the reason I may bow out of this thread for a bit.  After a few attacks, both here and soon other sites and PM, I'm feeling a little bit defensive and -- as usual, with apologies -- it shows.

I feel like a newly engaged woman who, upon presenting her new engagement ring to her closest friends, gets belittled and told how ugly and worthless the ring is...  :)

Wayne


@Wayne & all mods, please consider locking this thread as it appears the trolls smell blood and are looking for yet another cowardly fight! You made your point and 99% of us here understand it well..let it be for now and hopefully it can be resolved soon without any bad blood being spilt...of course just my 2 cents (& Canadian ones) :-)
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: bloodline on August 20, 2009, 03:58:30 PM
Quote from: cgutjahr;520157
I'm not trying to be helpful.


 


:lol:

Then why bother posting!?
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: the_leander on August 20, 2009, 04:02:36 PM
Quote from: cgutjahr;520157
I'm not trying to be helpful.


Clearly.

Quote from: cgutjahr;520157

Perhaps you should do your homework regarding copyright. My postings are owned by me, unless I explicitly transfered ownership to you. Can you point me to the paragraph in the TOS that states that by posting here I automatically transfer my copyrights to you? That's a honest question - I might have missed it.


You're posting in a public forum, therefore a great many copyright protections do not apply.

Quote from: cgutjahr;520157


You can either claim you own my postings, or deny reliability for them. Not both at the same time.


True, but again, this is a public forum, whilst you do have the right to demand your posts be removed the disclaimer is there to protect the site.

Quote from: cgutjahr;520157

Of course he does, I didn't mean to imply anything else. But the purchaser would only pay for domain and infrastructure, as you're not entitled to sell the postings.


But he is entitled to pass them on gratis.

Also, if you are *really* that upset about the possibility of a new owner taking on the site and the posts remaining present, as opposed to just trolling, it could quite easily be arranged that your posts be removed should it come to that.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 20, 2009, 04:03:10 PM
Quote from: bloodline;520159
:lol:

Then why bother posting!?

:roflmao:  Valid point!  :)
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: a-pex on August 20, 2009, 04:07:53 PM
Sad news!

But I think there will be noone who can invest 10k in an Amiga forum with some older getting freaks. ;)
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: ffastback on August 20, 2009, 04:11:15 PM
Quote from: Wayne;520156
Apologies, and the reason I may bow out of this thread for a bit.  After a few attacks, both here and soon other sites and PM, I'm feeling a little bit defensive and -- as usual, with apologies -- it shows.

I feel like a newly engaged woman who, upon presenting her new engagement ring to her closest friends, gets belittled and told how ugly and worthless the ring is...  :)

Wayne


No sweat, and all the best.  I hope that someone does come along with the money you are looking for.  In a global recession I think thats going to be a narrow field of potential though.  But it only takes one buyer with the cash, so best of luck.  And thank you for maintaining the site all these years!
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: cgutjahr on August 20, 2009, 04:19:01 PM
Quote from: bloodline;520159
:lol:
Then why bother posting!?

Not trying to be helpful towards Wayne is not the same as not trying to be helpful at all.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: demusse on August 20, 2009, 04:21:35 PM
so you want to buy a jag with the 10k ? :)
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: amigadave on August 20, 2009, 04:27:03 PM
Quote from: redrumloa;519997
Has happened to me too. I did a How-To on getting a Catweasel Flipper to work under MOS, posted it to AO and within days it was on another site, with exact same pics and text, but someone else taking credit.

Off Topic, but could you provide a link to that tutorial?
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 20, 2009, 04:28:30 PM
Quote from: demusse;520166
so you want to buy a jag with the 10k ? :)
Nope.  Jaguars as beautiful, but maintenance nightmares (according to pretty much everyone I've asked).  I'm getting used to the Mazda, though it's not my favorite vehicle of choice.  Like everyone else I guess, I'd either invest it, or use it to pay off a couple of credit cards and cancel out that debt.

Wayne
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: bloodline on August 20, 2009, 04:31:44 PM
Quote from: cgutjahr;520165
Not trying to be helpful towards Wayne is not the same as not trying to be helpful at all.


Are you sure spreading FUD in this thread is entirely helpful to anyone?
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Firedawg on August 20, 2009, 04:35:33 PM
@ Wayne,

Your feelings about this site are your own and I respect them 100%.  As for the Trollies, well :whack:.  I have learned so much from A.org as it has covered classic system  configuration, programming, and electronics.  Folks just do not know what a great resources this is to be able to login and research or ask questions to the many knowledgeable people who frequent this site.  I hope the site remains up and running for many years to come, but that is my wants.  Do not let the nuckleheads out there pester you with their empty statements about you or this site.

The Dawg
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Boot_WB on August 20, 2009, 04:36:31 PM


@Bloodline

Congratulations on breaching 10,000 posts.
Forum whore... ;-)

Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 20, 2009, 04:45:47 PM
Quote from: cgutjahr;520165
Not trying to be helpful towards Wayne is not the same as not trying to be helpful at all.
Saying "Good luck but I have reservations" is not the same as coming into my house and insulting me either.   A point easily overlooked.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: bloodline on August 20, 2009, 04:46:25 PM
Quote from: Boot_WB;520172


@Bloodline

Congratulations on breaching 10,000 posts.
Forum whore... ;-)



Danke!

Yes, 10k cynical and mostly iPhone related posts :D
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: crawff on August 20, 2009, 04:48:08 PM
Would it be possible to organise some sort of raffle where members can purchase tickets for say $25 each. $25 x 400 memebers equal $10,000.

Maybe offer a prize for the winner i.e Xbox 360, PS3 etc..to give them an incentive to buy and also a good chance of winning a prize?

The money would be rasied but the ownership of the site could still be decided by Wayne.

Just an idea...only trying to help!!
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: amigadave on August 20, 2009, 04:50:08 PM
I suggest this thread be locked as everything that needs to be said, has been expressed already, and I have just started another clean thread for those who are really interested in purchasing A.org.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: cgutjahr on August 20, 2009, 04:55:32 PM
Quote from: bloodline;520169
Are you sure spreading FUD in this thread is entirely helpful to anyone?

Feel free to point out where I spread FUD. I certainly was not polite, but I did not intend to be - because IMHO asking the community for 10 grand isn't polite either.

But this seems to be one of those he's-not-with-us-so-we're-allowed-to-burn-his-car-and-kill-his-cat moments, I guess I better take a break before people start insulting my mother or questioning the size of my manhood.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: bloodline on August 20, 2009, 04:59:05 PM
Quote from: crawff;520177
Would it be possible to organise some sort of raffle where members can purchase tickets for say $25 each. $25 x 400 memebers equal $10,000.

Maybe offer a prize for the winner i.e Xbox 360, PS3 etc..to give them an incentive to buy and also a good chance of winning a prize?

The money would be rasied but the ownership of the site could still be decided by Wayne.

Just an idea...only trying to help!!


I actually really like that idea!!! Raffel off Amiga.org :)
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: bloodline on August 20, 2009, 05:12:37 PM
Quote from: cgutjahr;520179
Feel free to point out where I spread FUD. I certainly was not polite, but I did not intend to be - because IMHO asking the community for 10 grand isn't polite either.

But this seems to be one of those he's-not-with-us-so-we're-allowed-to-burn-his-car-and-kill-his-cat moments, I guess I better take a break before people start insulting my mother or questioning the size of my manhood.


But Wayne isn't asking the community for $10k... He is putting the site up for sale for that much... If you want to buy it negotiate a price with him... If not then let him carry on owning the site or sell it to someone who is prepared to buy it... Simples...
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Lemmink on August 20, 2009, 05:12:38 PM
Well usually it's OK with me that everything is a little bit expensive and crazy in Amigaland but this is totally ridiculous ! You will have a hard time finding someone that is serious about taking on an amigasite / forum with all the work associated for free let alone pay for the honor of work.

To all that will now come to my door with forks and torches: You are all so quick with donating money, but would anyone of you donate the time to run this site AND pay for being allowed to sacrifice a good part of his private time / live for this ?

Having said this I of course say thanks to Wayne for having done this job for so long, but asking (that amount of) money from someone that is willing to take this chore over from you feels strange to say the least..
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: seer on August 20, 2009, 05:15:19 PM
@Wayne,

Thanks for creating and maintaining in what I think is close if not the father of all Amiga forums out there.

Must be hard tho to let go 15 years of your life. I hope you find someone who can buy and run this site.

If not, ah well, I'm sure someone is interested in the domain name for other purposes tho I do understand why you would not want that. :-p
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: motorollin on August 20, 2009, 05:19:58 PM
I agree that this thread should be locked, and in fact I think most of it should be removed. People can PM their personal feelings about this to Wayne. We don't all need to know what each other thinks about the situation (he says after offering his own opinion...).


Sebastiân, thanks for providing me with a quote for me new signature ;)
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: A1260 on August 20, 2009, 05:22:55 PM
@Wayne

dont worry the morphos lovers will jump on this and you will pay your debt in no time :)
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: the_leander on August 20, 2009, 05:23:12 PM
Quote from: cgutjahr;520179
Feel free to point out where I spread FUD.


By lobbing copyright issues into this you effectively pulled the pin on a grenade.

Do you have even the slightest notion of how complex an issue you're talking about? By even bringing it up in the manner you did there is an implied threat.

So there's your FUD.

Quote from: cgutjahr;520179
I certainly was not polite, but I did not intend to be - because IMHO asking the community for 10 grand isn't polite either.


A community that has had effectively a free ride for 15 years. Asking for something back for 15 years of hard work is not impolite. Now whether he gets that or not is another question entirely. But that is up to the community or some other interested party. But asking in of itself is not.

You coming in here with a frankly disgusting attitude and yes, spreading FUD however, that's plenty impolite.

Quote from: cgutjahr;520179

But this seems to be one of those he's-not-with-us-so-we're-allowed-to-burn-his-car-and-kill-his-cat moments, I guess I better take a break before people start insulting my mother or questioning the size of my manhood.


Because it's totally cool for you you engage in ad hominem attacks on others.

You got a point, make it. Insulting people, degrading their work and lobbing in legal hand grenades for the fun of it isn't just unhelpful it's downright unproductive.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Karlos on August 20, 2009, 05:24:18 PM
Quote from: bloodline;520175
Danke!

Yes, 10k cynical and mostly iPhone related posts :D

In the xoops days, you could have joined me up here in the rankless void. Alas, vB doesn't seem to have that feature ;)

Congratulations on hitting the 5 digit boundary.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: the_leander on August 20, 2009, 05:39:26 PM
Quote from: cgutjahr;520179
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q285/the_leander/wharrgarbl.jpg)


(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q285/the_leander/troll_detected.png)

Hmm!
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: the_leander on August 20, 2009, 05:40:31 PM
@ Bloodline - congrats!
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Darrin on August 20, 2009, 05:44:14 PM
@ Wayne,

Damn, I just found this thread.  I can't say I'm surprised because 15 years running something like Amiga.org and seeing more "downs" than "ups" has to take the fun out of it eventually.  I think you need a medal for hanging in there so long.

$10,000?  For a name like Amiga.org I'm sure someone, somewhere is willing to pay good money for it, even if vintage computers is the least of their interests so good luck with the sale.

I make irregular donations to the site, and anyone who purchases it to continue to run it as it is will receive the same financial support.

Cheers for all your efforts in maintaining an Amiga community through the dark times and I wish you well for the future.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: F1Lupo on August 20, 2009, 05:49:57 PM
Quote from: A1260;520196
@Wayne

dont worry the morphos lovers will jump on this and you will pay your debt in no time :)


wow..from your previous posts I could swear you are a Sam440 and OS4.1 supporter !
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: gazgod on August 20, 2009, 06:04:51 PM
Quote from: klx300r;520211
wow..from your previous posts I could swear you are a Sam440 and OS4.1 supporter !


From his previous posts I thought he was a tw@t :D
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: motorollin on August 20, 2009, 06:07:12 PM
Quote from: gazgod;520217
From his previous posts I thought he was a tw@t :D


QFMFGDT!!! :lol:
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: bloodline on August 20, 2009, 06:17:47 PM
Quote from: gazgod;520217
From his previous posts I thought he was a tw@t :D


:lol:


Also, cheers guys... Now if only I had a dollar for every post ;)
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: mfletcher on August 20, 2009, 06:27:04 PM
Wayne,

Sorry to hear you're moving on. My 2 cents tho. I think in this current economy 10K is *way* too much to pay for a website. To put it in context, thats a down payment on a mortgage right there. Then theres the added cost of keeping the server up and running etc etc.

Rather than selling the site, why dont you just point the domain at the English Amiga Board, or AmigaWorld.net so that the traffic goes there... maybe transfer the domain to some other party that is keeping the flame alive (AmigaKit?, EAB? AmigaWorld?).

I dont think there would be any harm in setting up a "tip cup" where users can show their gratitude for your work over the years.

Worst case scenario would be for the domain to be hijacked to one of those search landing pages you see, or worse, someone like Doomy or Amiga Inc snapping it up.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: tone007 on August 20, 2009, 06:32:35 PM
Quote from: mfletcher;520224
why dont you just point the domain at the English Amiga Board, or AmigaWorld.net so that the traffic goes there...


What a horrible idea, as this site is better than those, especially after the recent huge makeover.
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: bloodline on August 20, 2009, 06:40:57 PM
Quote from: mfletcher;520224
Wayne,

Sorry to hear you're moving on. My 2 cents tho. I think in this current economy 10K is *way* too much to pay for a website. To put it in context, thats a down payment on a mortgage right there. Then theres the added cost of keeping the server up and running etc etc.

Rather than selling the site, why dont you just point the domain at the English Amiga Board, or AmigaWorld.net so that the traffic goes there... maybe transfer the domain to some other party that is keeping the flame alive (AmigaKit?, EAB? AmigaWorld?).

I dont think there would be any harm in setting up a "tip cup" where users can show their gratitude for your work over the years.

Worst case scenario would be for the domain to be hijacked to one of those search landing pages you see, or worse, someone like Doomy or Amiga Inc snapping it up.

Ok, you've missed the point. Wayne isn't closing Amiga.org down, he has simply put it up for sale. If someone buys it then they can either run it as it is or close it down or turn it into a social networking site or whatever... but until such time, everyone chill out! :)
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: A1260 on August 20, 2009, 06:46:19 PM
Quote from: klx300r;520211
wow..from your previous posts I could swear you are a Sam440 and OS4.1 supporter !


you know about irony?.... :lol:
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 20, 2009, 06:46:23 PM
Based on multiple requests, and agreeing that this thread is outliving it's useful purpose, I'm locking it.

I've stated my case, the reasons, the hows, and the why.  Short of that, if you'd like to discuss it, please feel free to do so to me directly via Private Message (PM).

Whether or not the site sells to a new owner is not really the deal here guys.  My biggest interest is in being able to move on, while assuring that the new captain will keep the ship upright and true.  Whether or not you feel I'm asking too much, or I'm wrong for doing so is truly irrelevant to the situation.

It is what it is.  I've ALWAYS had a price set on the site, and it's currently 1/2 of what it used to be before the community was splintered.  I would challenge any of you to point out where I've ever pretended to be anything more than a capitalist.

As for hosting, between the ads and the donations, the site's hosting is, and will continue to be paid for by you, the community with my heartfelt gratitude for the votes of confidence.  Hopefully this thread hasn't damaged your opinion of me so much that said trend will stop.  The site has ALWAYS been covered by it's members.  Nothing about that should hopefully ever change.

For the record, The site will not change for the foreseeable future.  We, or more meaningfully, I am not going anywhere or changing.  NEVER have I intended to suggest this site will be discontinued.  

Admittedly, I've bitten off a bit of troll bait enough to respond rashly to a few, but again, being told that your life's work is worthless is not a pill easily swallowed.

In truth, I'm trying to get my life back in order and on track.  This site has seen me through multiple jobs (including self-employment), a painful divorce and loss of a good friend, being screwed by BBRV, and more drama than I can recall.  

This site to me, is a reminder of younger, more impetuous times.  As such, I just feel like it's time to put it behind me.  At the same time however, I don't feel in any way that 15 years of work is worthless, so forgive me if I've nipped a bit at the less-than-helpful trolls on this one.

I look forward to your replies via PM or even e-mail.

Wayne
Title: Re: The future of Amiga.org ...?
Post by: Wayne on August 21, 2009, 10:26:31 PM
Hi guys,
 
 Over the past three days, I have been very overwhelmed with the support shown by our members regarding the potential sale of Amiga.org... I am literally humbled to know that there are some of you who will go to great lengths to preserve this great site for the future. It proves to me what an incredible community this always has been.
 
 That being said, I'm very happy to informally announce I have received an offer from a person I trust with the future of this site. He, his partners, and I have come to a tentative agreement regarding the sale and subsequent transfer of Amiga.org.
 
 Once we iron out all the particulars and a contract is signed, there will be a 3-month transition period to follow during which time absolutely nothing about the site itself should change.  

All of our current moderators will remain (should they choose to do so), only my successor will need to be chosen by the new owners, and I've made my recommendation to the purchaser as to who I personally think would be the best person for the job.
 
 As I promised when this drama began, absolutely nothing about this site will change in the foreseeable future, save for one staff change. Both I, and the potential owners are in complete agreement on that core ideal.
 
 Amiga.org has always, and will always exist to support the Amiga community as best as we possibly can and I will make absolutely sure that you are all kept in the loop as to any changes, as soon as they occur.
 
 Even though I'm not going anywhere right now, I am honored by your remarkable support, and will always be grateful to each of you for the chance to provide Amiga.org to the community for all these years.