USB VIDEO ON THE DENEB?

[Darrin]

platon42 wrote:

Wow. I wouldn't have thought of people comming up with this. If somebody could collect the bucks (I have no PayPal account anymore), buy that thing and send it to me, that would be great. Thanks!

It's because we trust you and your abilities.  :-)

I'm in the USA, so I'm not a good candidate to do the purchase and sending, but if we have an honest member here in Europe who is willing to do it and who has a Pay Pal account then I'll send him my share of the money if he passes me his details.

How about the guy who runs Versilla?  He does Pay Pal, lives in Germany and is 100% trustworthy?  Does he post here?

[alexh]

platon42 wrote:
A 50Hz true color stream would be at a sustained rate of 260MBit/sec.

A RAW decoded digital TV stream would be 601 video (16-bit 4:4:4 Y'CbCr) at PAL SD resolution/refresh would be 720x288x16x50 = 158MBit which would be about manageable with USB2.0 HS

Soon as you go to Desktop size and modern refresh rates then uncompressed RAW goes out of the window for almost any link 1024x768x24x75 = 1.3GBit/s

But I am pretty sure these USB gfx cards do not just get streamed raw RGB data. I would imagine they are very similar in architecture to PCI gfx cards with their own framebuffer RAM and hardware acceleration such as a blitter and line drawing etc. To cope with the much lower bandwidth vs 32-bit 33MHz PCI I would imagine the host tries to buffer and compress the data prior to transfer.

Just gotta hope the compression they perform on the host isn't too CPU hungry for a high end Amiga :-(

[HyAmi]

Darrin wrote:

I'm in the USA, so I'm not a good candidate to do the purchase and sending, but if we have an honest member here in Europe who is willing to do it and who has a Pay Pal account then I'll send him my share of the money if he passes me his details.

How about the guy who runs Versilla?  He does Pay Pal, lives in Germany and is 100% trustworthy?  Does he post here?

Versilla? Do you mean Vesalia.de? Anyway, I'm in Europe too (the Netherlands), but I'd prefer someone from Germany as well. I'll keep an eye on this thread to find out where I can drop off my money.

Just my 2000 cents  :-D

[arnljot]

Platon42, I can wire the full amount to you first. Then the pledgers can send me their part of the amount to my paypal.

So I suggest:
1) I(or other) wires full amount up front to Chris
2) Chris confirms receipt of the funds in this thread
3) Pledgers pay their pledged part of the amount to my paypal or whoever else put up the money up front

Statement: When I wire the money to Chris I consider it payment for the following service: That Chris will aquire and look at supporing a USB graphichs card for the Poseidon USB Stack and Deneb USB Card for the Amiga. However, Chris is under no obligation to actually deliver this, this can be due to technical constraints or constraints to his time to spend on this.

Or to quote Chris himself:

Platon42 wrote:
About that "bounty" -- even if I'd get the adapter, this would not come with an obligation to complete the project. As said above, the task would be rather complex.

[amigadave]

platon42 wrote:

wawrzon wrote:
im just back from an electronic shop, there are a lot pci tv_cards that are advertised as equipped with hardware mpeg2 decoder for a better performance. i didnt not really found something like that among usb dongles but i cant say i really looked close.

Sending uncompressed video across an USB link easily exhausts or exceeds the raw bandwidth of 480MBit/sec. A 50Hz true color stream would be at a sustained rate of 260MBit/sec. While this is not a problem for a PCI interface, over USB this is too much.

As one of the at least two contributors from the land of NTSC to help with the purchase of the USB video adapter, I must ask a stupid question.  Will your work to write a driver include both PAL and NTSC devices.  I assume it will as it is a class of driver you will be working on, but I don't know how those things work, hence the question.

Will the driver work with just one specific adapter?  If yes, and it is a PAL adapter that we purchase for you, how will you provide a NTSC frequency driver?

Forgive me if these questions are stupid. (it won't be the first or last time I have written stupid things here) :lol:

[Darrin]

arnljot wrote:
Platon42, I can wire the full amount to you first. Then the pledgers can send me their part of the amount to my paypal.

So I suggest:
1) I(or other) wires full amount up front to Chris
2) Chris confirms receipt of the funds in this thread
3) Pledgers pay their pledged part of the amount to my paypal or whoever else put up the money up front

Statement: When I wire the money to Chris I consider it payment for the following service: That Chris will aquire and look at supporing a USB graphichs card for the Poseidon USB Stack and Deneb USB Card for the Amiga. However, Chris is under no obligation to actually deliver this, this can be due to technical constraints or constraints to his time to spend on this.

That sounds perfect!  I'll send you my share by PayPal assuming Chris agrees and you're ready to send the funds.

Cheers.

Darrin

[wawrzon]

i can try to get hold of hardware in question and send it to chris. btw i do not need no refunds in this case. but what i wonder is what kind of gfx card are we getting here, does it have some 3d capabilities such as could be used by w3d or so?

[arnljot]

@wawrzon
I don't think w3d will be in the mix, a pure 2D card only I think. Classic amigas have little or no 3D support ouside software w3d drivers or permedia. I'm not even sure if there is warp3d drivers for voodoo? Also, wawrzon, are you located in Germany?

@amigadave
Very good questions. I think that it's not PAL or NTSC as it's PC. And that PAL or NTSC only comes into play when we're talking TV screens. But better that Chris looks into this and answers it, or perhaps alexh

@darrin
Yes, but like you say; this has to be okay with Chris. Also wawrzon has offered to arrange for him to get hardware - so chris has to opt for the solution which suits him best, not necessarily what suits us

@thread
Lets keep the specs to a first version limited: Can we have workbench on a LCD over USB. Then if that's feasible and implemented, let's only then see if there is any room for improvement/enhancement.

[bloodline]

Does chris have any experience writing P96 drivers?

[wawrzon]

yes im located in berlin, germany. i can easily purchuase from pearl.de but will first check at local electronics store.

i too expect it will be pure 2d but wanted to check for 3d support since i assume this could be used to offload the main cpu and bus transfer (restricted by zorro and usb2) even for 2d graphics and get some reasonably fast graphics anyway.

voodoo3 has warp3d support through mediator drivers by the way (yes i know, it is a hack). i do not have this working through @ the mom. and: yes os3.x has very little 3d support but some rudimentary librarys exis that could be updated and from what i understood the people on amiforce.de are working on some kind of opengl support inside amiblitz but i could be wrong. (there was a talk of opengl includes anyway)

what concerns os4, i understand that minigl is being updated, but that doesnt concerns the classic users that much since 3.9 is better choice for a "deneb-system".

well, im off to shop first.

[wawrzon]

ah, and how about this:
http://www.diwa-shop.de/idealo.jsp?artId=0-61-DA-70820
would it be too much for a classic (say even with a ppc)?

[arnljot]

@bloodline
I guess Platon42 needs a P96 driver if he wants to test this, and has thought of this when he mentioned the product which he'd looked at. Although, I think he can write such a driver, Chris himself is the one most qualified to answer that question. So you should direct your question to him, and not the thread

@wawrzon
The link is dead. Can you accept paypal from us who have pledged support?

@Platon42
I guess/hope too that the Z3 DMA speed should be sufficient, as the driver would use the draw functions in the USB card and only copy rasters as needed from the system memory. But alexh's friends should confirm how these cards work. The full screen raster of what's projected to the user is composed and built by a graphics card, and hopefully this is how those USB thingy-madingies work... :-P

[Darrin]

Can I just point out that I use CybergraphX 4.  ;-)   :lol:

[rzookol]

@platon42

I think about making sane backend port for my  scanner (Plustek S24). I have looked on Your site but there isn't any developer kit for poseidon. Includes and examples are included in MOS SDK but there is no autodocs for Your usb stack. Where can i download it ?

[wawrzon]

the link is not dead, but in case u cannot access it for some reason this is what ive meant:
Digitus Videokarte USB2.0 Video Grabber DA-70820

to clarify:i do not expect a 060 based amiga to be able to decompress and display full blown 768or720x576 avi or mpg2 video in realtime by itself. i thought of some kind of tandem like a pci_tv_card and f.i. voodoo3 with its overlay function on mediator. using such a configuration i can easily put video_input in bacground of an amiga animation just like a simple color_keying genlock would do on aga. the question is: if said usb_gfx_dongle woud support something like that or if there are any other devieces capable of.

well back from shop at the moment, but they denied the existence of such hw. so if chris accepts i will order the piece. as i said i do not need any refunds. there are a lot of developments still left to support.  

[wawrzon]

ok, the piece has been ordered. i hope it arrives soon. i'll keep u posted.
@platon42: is this ur current adress i in my deneb manual? otherwise pm me where to send it, please.