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Author Topic: Elbox Dragon "news"  (Read 9432 times)

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Offline platon42

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Re: Elbox Dragon "news"
« Reply #89 from previous page: November 13, 2006, 10:31:45 PM »
Quote

"Chris Hodges was satisfied with the contract with Elbox, but only till the time when it turned out that Elbox developed their drivers for Poseidon much faster than he expected. It tooks a few weeks, not years.
Probably Hodges counted on growing up of the interest of Poseidon as the standard for Amiga and in the mean time to have no competitor for E3B products for a long time."


Never heard so much bullsh1t before. As you can read on http://www.platon42.de/soapopera.html yourself, I did not try to fool those people, but rather be as helpful as possible -- before Elbox started going to slag E3B for no reason and started doing there unfair competition (by refusing to mention that Poseidon was NOT included in "their" product).

As for the key thing: Even /if/ somebody working for Elbox registered Poseidon, Elbox clearly states that this person does not even *own* an Amiga. But as the Poseidon licence is personally bound to the machines somebody owns (and here in this case, the licensee does not own one, especially not the Elbox one), installing and using it on a foreign machine is a breach of licence conditions and renderes the licence invalid. If the user registered it in the name of Elbox, he didn't specify this information in the reg form. Anyway, only one PPA registered user ever upgraded their key to Poseidon V3.x, and it was Poseidon V3.x that had been shown by Elbox. And this user /does/ have an Amiga.

But whatever, all this arguing is not going to change the situation a bit. Maybe it's really time to move on.
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Regards, Chris Hodges )-> http://www.platon42.de <-(
hackerkey://v4sw7CJS$hw6/7ln6pr7+8AOP$ck0ma8u2LMw1/4Xm5l3i5TJCOTextPad/e7t2BDMNb7GHLen5a34s5IMr1g3/5ACM
 

Offline alewis

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Re: Elbox Dragon "news"
« Reply #90 on: November 14, 2006, 12:28:32 AM »
This might not be the right thread for whatr I am about to say, and will probably annoy more than one person. That said, please bear in mind that this is no way critical of any party, nor casting blame or aspersion on any party concerned (bar the usual internet posting suspects who only served to inflame a situation)

Regards the Hodges - Elbox dispute, there is a very, very good reason why companies use managers to enter negotiations, rather than technical staff.

They know what they are doing, and they speak the same language.

Simply put, it seperates the commercial aspects of a relationship, from the underlying service/product/technical broohaa. They [probably] neither know nor care about the underlying technical wizardry, but they do know about detail work such as revenue, cost of support, pricing, profit margins, market segments, ie all the commercial apsects. And relationship management; they serve as insulation between [potentialy rival] groups of staff, such as developers who may be unhappy over a decision to include the others' product/service/component over their own.*

And then agree a legally binding written contract defining all aspects of the underlying commercial relationship.

This is important - it superseedes any marketing statements about a companies intentions, culture, history, and so forth.

And to be honest, both sides are trying to get the best deal for their company. The definition of "best" varies, but does not always mean a compromise that neither side is wholly happy with; often, one side will make a short-term concession in the interests of a more attractive longer term relationship (as an example, look at the Marriot Hotel after 9/11, and how they helped one of the major financial players with office room, I can give many more examples).

Chris, reading your soapopera page, I think there were several times when things were "lost in translation": Elbox had commercial expectations, which perhaps you missed, and likewise didn't appreciate that they were negotiating with an individual developer.

Perhaps maybe you realise some of this - *for example at the start you apologise for unprofessional and "..and individual with emotions and not representing a company". This is a prime expample of when using relationship/account managers - who are not connected with the underlying product - insulate the relationship from the emotions of those who are deeply involved at the "coal face", seperating commerce from work, as it were.

I don't think there would be much milage in identifying examples of where the relationship went rocky, but certainly its true to say that

1. Neither party asked enough questions, I suspect due to  completely differing reasons.

2.There were too many occasions where effort was spent in recriminations rather than agreeing a course of action to solve an issue.

3. At times, both parties proceeded on assumptions without actually checking those assumptions were valid. In some cases, those assumptions were quite minor to that party, but quite major to the other.


Just my 5cents. Shame really, as had some of the sticking points been identified and dealt with earlier, I think this would have been a beneficial agreement for both Elbox and yourself.
 

Offline stopthegop

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Re: Elbox Dragon "news"
« Reply #91 on: November 14, 2006, 03:17:12 AM »
I think thats a fair analysis.
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Offline r-tea

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Re: Elbox Dragon "news"
« Reply #92 on: November 15, 2006, 09:32:07 PM »
@ Platon42
[...]before Elbox started going to slag E3B for no reason and started doing there unfair competition (by refusing to mention that Poseidon was NOT included in "their" product).

Here in a news on PPA.pl in which is an announcement of Spider USB card. It informs among others that SpiderUSB package contains an unregistered time-limited demo version of Poseidon USB stack.

Cite from PPA.pl
"Pakiet sprzedawany przez Elbox zawiera:
- Kartê Spider USB 2.0
- Sterowniki Mediator OHCI USB zgodne z oprogramowaniem Poseidon
- Niezarejestrowan± ograniczon± czasowo wersjê demo stosu USB - Poseidon."

The package that Elbox sells includes:
- Spider USB2.0 card
- Mediator OHCI USB drivers compatible with Poseidon
- Unregistered, time-limited demo version of Poseidon USB stack

This is 13.09.2002 news - right before Spider got to market.

Here is Elbox's news archive and here is a news in which Elbox informs about drivers for Poseidon stack:

Cite:
"The unregistered, time-limited version of the Poseidon USB stack will be available in the Mediator Multimedia CD. Registration of the Poseidon stack for Mediator users will be provided by Chris Hodges."

It's from 11 September 2002.
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Offline uncleted

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Re: Elbox Dragon "news"
« Reply #93 on: November 16, 2006, 12:08:25 AM »
The web archive also has a copy of that news:
http://web.archive.org/web/20021210195658/elbox.com/news_02_09_11B.html
also: http://web.archive.org/web/20021210223034/elbox.com/news_02_09_12.html

In case someone thinks the archive on Elbox's site is doctored.
 

Offline Darrin

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Re: Elbox Dragon "news"
« Reply #94 on: November 16, 2006, 01:10:54 AM »
Well done for digging up the truth guys.  Hodges' excuse is rather lame and is as likely as someone buying a copy of Lemmings and then complaining to Commodore that there wasn't an Amiga computer in the box because the label says that the game "runs on an Amiga".   :-D

Quite frankly, the whole situation sucks.  I have 2 Elbox towers and their Flyer Gold IDE interface and they are great bits of kit.  From what I gather, Hodges has written an excellent USB stack and it deserves to be supported.  However, the only way I am ever likely to purchase Chris' software is if I buy a product from Elbox.  I feel safer purchasing a product costing several hundred dollars from a company like Elbox than I do purchasing a license for EUR38 from an individual.  It's about time someone came to their senses and realised that bundling a licensed copy of the stack with the hardware direct from Elbox for a reduced (an guaranteed) EUR20 would benefit everyone and fight piracy of the software.
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Offline _yak_

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Re: Elbox Dragon "news"
« Reply #95 on: November 16, 2006, 12:12:43 PM »
Since there is some new info (in polish) available on PPA.pl I've decided to once again ease the life of non-polish-speaking community and translated it. The translation was posted on AW.net.
 

Offline humppa

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Re: Elbox Dragon "news"
« Reply #96 on: November 16, 2006, 12:52:23 PM »
@yak

Thanks a lot for the translation! I think you could even quote the full text here instead of only linking to it.
This is much more on-topic (Dragon) than some of the earlier ramblings concernig Poseidon-licenses, the Elbox-e3b/Hodges dispute, etc.


 

Offline amigadave

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Re: Elbox Dragon "news"
« Reply #97 on: November 16, 2006, 02:42:03 PM »
I think most REASONABLE readers here will agree that both parties in the dispute acted unprofessional and at some points childish and immature.  The only part I am concerned about is the malicious code that was found and later removed.  Hopefully Elbox learned a lesson from that disaster and will never repeat such actions.

That leaves the buyers of Amiga hardware with two choices, 1. they can choose to forgive and forget that extremely bad choice of actions to put users data in danger and take a chance in purchasing more Elbox hardware and software drivers, or 2. the buyers can decide to never trust Elbox again and show their lack of trust by not buying their products.  Vote with your wallets, but please don't try to tell the rest of us how to vote with our own wallets.

Can we please get back on topic with real news regarding the Dragon hardware?   :-P
How are you helping the Amiga community? :)
 

Offline humppa

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Re: Elbox Dragon "news"
« Reply #98 on: November 17, 2006, 08:14:13 PM »
Quote
Can we please get back on topic with real news regarding the Dragon hardware?


Hopefully. :-)

Darek from Elbox gave some remarks on the Dragon presentation in this thread.
 

Offline Rob

Re: Elbox Dragon "news"
« Reply #99 on: November 17, 2006, 09:15:15 PM »
@ThEcRoW

Quote
If you bought a hardware second hand, and uses a driver form a mate, it will screw your disk.


You've had personal experience of this?