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Author Topic: Team Amiga Reaction to the Bernithlon Situation  (Read 5102 times)

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Offline Damion

Re: Team Amiga Reaction to the Bernithlon Situation
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2002, 02:59:55 AM »
Yeah, the miggy pyramid is totally gay...

Look T_Bone, I don't have to 'join up' with
Team Amiga OR H&P in order to have an opinion
on this. I think their both lame in this
situation. H&P delivers their usual corporate
BS, and Team Amiga is drawing insulting animations.
It's silly to use the flag of an entire country to
represent ONE company in that country. That's like
using the US flag as the definitive symbol for the
Ford Escort or Bill Clinton.

Personally, I think it sucks that Mr.Meyer is losing
out on this one, and I really hope he gets his money
out of it. But boycotting Software Hut isn't going to
solve the problem, IMO.
 

Offline T_Bone

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Re: Team Amiga Reaction to the Bernithlon Situation
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2002, 03:12:01 AM »
Quote

-D- wrote:
Yeah, the miggy pyramid is totally gay...


So is having your livlihood destroyed by thieves who decide to sell your product ignoring the owners copyright.

So is being a user watching as developer after developer stop publishing/pull their products and walk away from the Amiga community because of these criminals.

Jeeze, I really hope the little .gif animation doesn't somehow become the dominant issue here.
 :-?
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Offline Damion

Re: Team Amiga Reaction to the Bernithlon Situation
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2002, 03:14:56 AM »
And just once Mountainmyst, I'd like to see you
respond to some specific points instead of these
tired generalities.
 

Offline Damion

Re: Team Amiga Reaction to the Bernithlon Situation
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2002, 03:24:39 AM »
No, I do NOT support thieves, and of course I don't
think that pirating helps the emaciated Amiga
community. I will not personally buy any H&P products,
al least until this mess is sorted. However, I will
continue to use OS3.9. I notice nobody is advocating
sending those discs back.

Bottom line, I will not support H&P at this time,
but I also disagree with some of Team Amiga's points,
and I think their animation is weak minded. Is that
acceptable? I really don't care, issues are never
cut and dry with me.

 

Offline Ilwrath

Re: Team Amiga Reaction to the Bernithlon Situation
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2002, 03:29:39 AM »
@T_bone
Quote
The product has been publicly illegal for six months now. They've had more than enough time to get rid of old stock. Legally, they shouldn't even have had that. try selling Windows illegally for six months and see if anyone cares how "fair" it is that you got stuck with illegal products.


6 months?  I know vendors who have illegally sold Windows for several years!  They set up at trade shows around the area all the time.  The special "behind the counter" white-manual OEM only Windows XP.  Only $50.  And people buy it.  Why?  It's just as illegal as downloading it off eDonkey....  Why do they waste the $50 to still be illegal?  I ask them.  Their eyes glaze over, and they mumble that they *BOUGHT* this, so somehow it's more legal.  There's no accounting for people's tastes.  Anyhow, I digress....

The fact of the matter (as I see it) is that Amiga DEALERS don't deserve to be boycotted out of this.  Boycott the product, boycott H&P, if you like, but the fact of the matter is this: the Amiga DEALERS have purchased this product under the pretense from H&P that it is fully-legal.  H&P still claim that this product they are selling is legal.  If vendors couldn't sell any products which have had their legality called into question, we wouldn't have much for sale in ANY business, let alone computing!  The dealers are only letting the consumers decide on a product by product basis what they think.  Deciding on a dealer by dealer basis is foolish.
 

Offline T_Bone

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Re: Team Amiga Reaction to the Bernithlon Situation
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2002, 03:40:02 AM »
>  Look T-Bone, I don't have to 'join up' with
> Team Amiga OR H&P in order to have an opinion
> on this.

I'm not a member of either one, either.

> I think their both lame in this
> situation. H&P delivers their usual corporate
> BS, and Team Amiga is drawing insulting
> animations.

You're insulted that the German flag was used? Do you believe they meant "Germans" or "H&P" by doing that? I thought it was rather obvious myself. Maybe they could be talked into removing it, it seems to be distracting people apparently.

> It's silly to use the flag of an entire country to
> represent ONE company in that country.

However they did say they were obfuscating the company, didn't they? I thought two flags next to each other clearly portrayed the idea "german pirates" especially when they said they wern't mentioning the company.

> That's like using the US flag as the definitive
> symbol for the Ford Escort or Bill Clinton.

Maybe, but it's a strawman issue you're building. I think the issue they were addressing is more important than the 64k .gif you're complaining about. Hell they can remove the .gif for all I care.

> Personally, I think it sucks that Mr.Meyer is losing
> out on this one, and I really hope he gets his money
> out of it. But boycotting Software Hut isn't going to
> solve the problem, IMO.

Is Software Hut selling illegal merchandise? If so, how does encouraging people to not contribute to fraud not helping?

Sure you have a right to your opinon, but frankly I think defending illegal acts that are destroying products and developers, not theoretically, but quite visibly, is just plain destructive in and of itself.

Why should Software Hut be exempted from the same laws that any other software retailer must abide by? I can make a case against it, but can you make a case for it?

I don't understand how "Don't buy from merchants that sell illegal merchandise" has become a controvercial subject, it seems perfectly reasonable to me.


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Offline T_Bone

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Re: Team Amiga Reaction to the Bernithlon Situation
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2002, 04:04:47 AM »
> The fact of the matter (as I see it) is that Amiga
> DEALERS don't deserve to be boycotted out of
> this.

I agree, therefore I hope they send them back to H&P for a refund. Legally they have that right. H&P would either have to comply, or risk retailers ending their business relationships with them.

(which btw would'nt be a bad idea anyhow)

> Boycott the product, boycott H&P, if you like, but
> the fact of the matter is this: the Amiga DEALERS
> have purchased this product under the pretense
> from H&P that it is fully-legal.  

Well, that was a risk they took by dealing with a disreputable company.  they'll have to take that up with H&P. Maybe if H&P are supplying them with illegal merchandise, the retailer should take the hint and stop dealing with H&P?

Frankly, If I were the retailer, I would have stopped ordering from H&P the minute the legality was questioned by the software's author. (as most have)

> H&P still claim that this product they are selling is
> legal.  If vendors couldn't sell any products which
> have had their legality called into question, we
>  wouldn't have much for sale in ANY business, let
>  alone computing!  

Why? Are you thinking of some other software that's being distributed against the public advise of the author that it's illegal? I can't think of any, honestly.

> The dealers are only letting the consumers decide
>  on a product by product basis what they think.  

it's a shame those nasty laws get in the way sometimes, but it's still illegal. Consumers are only letting the dealers decide what they think, when they say they won't purchase from someone dealing in illegal merchandise, too.

> Deciding on a dealer by dealer basis is foolish.

I agree, no specific dealer should be targeted, only dealers selling illegal merchandise.
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Offline Damion

Re: Team Amiga Reaction to the Bernithlon Situation
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2002, 04:36:22 AM »
Look dude, you're the one that keeps re-hashing
my flag comments, not me.

The flag bit isn't distracting me one bit, I just
think it's stupid. My mind on this issue was already
made up well before Team Amiga released their
'official statement'.

And yes, since you've brought it up again, it is
lame to use a countries flag to represent one of
it's less integrous elements. I don't care what the
excuse is. Maybe we should throw our own flag behind
the next news commentary on skinheads or corporate
fraud? That'll let everyone know EXACTLY what we're
all about.

I have already said that I won't buy any H&P products
for now, so what else do you want? I'm sorry, but I
think that's enough considering the fact that I haven't
seen any documents, signatures, or any other legal
framework. Nor do I know what agreements Amiga dealers
may have been subjected to/signed when they began
reselling Amithlon. I would need to know these facts
before mindlessly boycotting anything.

Once again, to sum up: I'm not advocating piracy, and
since I suspect at this time that H&P may be in the
wrong, I will not buy from them, I hope that Mr.Meyer
takes whatever legal resource is at his disposal, since
H&P has been blatantly selling his illegal software for
the past 6 months.

On a different issue entirely, I think Team Amiga's
statements and arguments are weak, although I respect
their effort.

Anymore questions on my position regarding the
flag? :-)

 

Offline Damion

Re: Team Amiga Reaction to the Bernithlon Situation
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2002, 04:48:02 AM »
BTW: My decision to not by from H&P is purely
philosophical, since H&P are still legal sellers
until proven otherwise in a court. It would be
a bit overboard to boycot resellers who still have
legal contracts to do so...that is, unless you know
of any Amiga dealers that have been notified by a
legal establishment.

That's why I think the argument to let the people
choose based on their individul integrity is sound.
I don't need Team Amiga to make that decision for me,
and I think most people already had their minds made
up days/weeks ago.
 

Offline Damion

Re: Team Amiga Reaction to the Bernithlon Situation
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2002, 06:50:53 AM »
Well, even if we don't completely agree, at
least we can agree that we somewhat agree! :)
 

Offline T_Bone

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Re: Team Amiga Reaction to the Bernithlon Situation
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2002, 06:55:17 AM »
> Anymore questions on my position regarding the
flag?

Lol, sorry, my reply didn't get sent untill you had already relied to my previous reply, and they somewhat staggered themselves :)

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Offline Damion

Re: Team Amiga Reaction to the Bernithlon Situation
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2002, 07:05:03 AM »
Yeah, in all honesty this thing really does
piss me of. GiantCo's always screw the little
guy in order to secure the selfish corpo
interest. Maybe I overreacted on the flag thing
a bit.
 

Offline Desmon

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Re: Team Amiga Reaction to the Bernithlon Situation
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2002, 07:31:17 AM »
I just think that there could be some conflict of interest here. Afterall, we all know who owns (or at least DID own) the owlnet.net domain.
Cache Ya,
Craig.


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Offline Targhan

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Re: Team Amiga Reaction to the Bernithlon Situation
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2002, 07:45:24 AM »
Ilwrath -> I LOVE the avatar!

On with the post->

I consider the use of the German flag to point to one German company
in poor taste in the least, and insulting to an entire country at
worst.  The flag should be removed.  I'm not condeming TeamAmiga's
statements, just that a wee bit more care should be applied to things
that could reference an entire country.  Stuff like that *could* (no
for sure, but could) convince a German who hasn't decided which stand
to take to go the other way.  Again, I mean no disrespect to the
artist or to TeamAmiga in this. :pint:

As far as the actual situation with Amithlon, I am at a complete loss.
 H&P has done some nice things for me, and have always been prompt and
helpful in any concern I've had.  OTH, Bernie not only seems sincere,
but has given too many details for him not to be factual in at least
some of his statements.  I also know of someone else who collected the
raw end of the deal between Amiga and H&P.  It is just a mess, plain
and simple :-?

Targhan


Regards,
Targhan
 

Offline Marky_D_Sahd

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Re: Team Amiga Reaction to the Bernithlon Situation
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2002, 08:36:30 AM »
I will boycott H&P (BTW boycotts are ALWAYS legal.  There is no such animal as an "Illegal" boycott.  As long as people are free to choose to buy a product, they will be free to choose to NOT buy that product.  Right?)

However, I don't think that boycotting Compuquick or S.Hut is a positive step.  Surely if we all successfully boycott H&P products, the problem will take care of itself:  The distributers will stop carying them.

Boycotts, like all protests, however, cause damage.  Boycotting the last few Amiga distributors seems like too much damage, to me.  Buying AMINET SET XXVII from Software Hut does not help to support H&P, but does help support the "good guys".

So, yeah, e-mail the distributors with your concerns, boycott H&P products, but DON'T shoot the bystanders.
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Offline jumpship

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Re: Team Amiga Reaction to the Bernithlon Situation
« Reply #29 from previous page: December 05, 2002, 09:00:03 AM »
Quote

Marky_D_Sahd wrote:
I will boycott H&P (BTW boycotts are ALWAYS legal.  There is no such animal as an "Illegal" boycott.  As long as people are free to choose to buy a product, they will be free to choose to NOT buy that product.  Right?)

However, I don't think that boycotting Compuquick or S.Hut is a positive step.  Surely if we all successfully boycott H&P products, the problem will take care of itself:  The distributers will stop carying them.

Boycotts, like all protests, however, cause damage.  Boycotting the last few Amiga distributors seems like too much damage, to me.  Buying AMINET SET XXVII from Software Hut does not help to support H&P, but does help support the "good guys".

So, yeah, e-mail the distributors with your concerns, boycott H&P products, but DON'T shoot the bystanders.


I agree with you! It isn't the vendors fault that they are caught up in the cross fire. All that needs to happen is a complete boycot of H&P products. If you don't agree with a vendor selling Amithlon, fine don't buy it! But there is no reason to boycot the vendor because if it, otherwise you will just put them out of buisness, and that does no good for anyone.