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Author Topic: APOLLO 68080 is now HYPER-THREADING enabled  (Read 13131 times)

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Offline Iggy

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Re: APOLLO 68080 is now HYPER-THREADING enabled
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2017, 01:37:06 AM »
Quote from: Faerytale;827464
This Gunnar is like GOD. He makes miracles, we want to believe in him & keep the faith, but  nobody has seen him.

Ahem...



http://www.greyhound-data.com/gunnar/gunnar.jpg

Not hard to find images of Gunnar "Big Gun" Von Boehn, you can keep your faith, but a God...no.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 12:42:43 PM by Iggy »
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Offline agami

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Re: APOLLO 68080 is now HYPER-THREADING enabled
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2017, 03:47:10 AM »
I love the direction in which the Apollo Team is heading.
Bring it on, bring it on, bring it on.
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Offline Gulliver

Re: APOLLO 68080 is now HYPER-THREADING enabled
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2017, 04:31:44 AM »
I love this direction too:

I hope he now adds yet another cpu register so that it allows me to change the background of a guru screen when running.
 

guest11527

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Re: APOLLO 68080 is now HYPER-THREADING enabled
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2017, 07:18:39 AM »
Food for thought:

-Identify at least four methods how to disable multitasking on AmigaOs.
-What is the value of ExecBase->ThisTask on an SMP system?
-Design a minimal non-locking critical region on AmigaOs.
-What is the purpose of a blue screen on windows? (Hint: Windows supports SMP).
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: APOLLO 68080 is now HYPER-THREADING enabled
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2017, 09:17:14 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;827475
Food for thought:
-What is the value of ExecBase->ThisTask on an SMP system?


at least for this one you can refer to aros sources for example. im not sure though if it has any relevance in this context.
 

Offline cunnpole

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Re: APOLLO 68080 is now HYPER-THREADING enabled
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2017, 11:32:29 AM »
Some of you may not have noticed the update: "Our team has several drivers and libraries in development.
Drivers like NETWORK, WIFI, SDCard, IDE, RTG Graphics....
 
These drivers which we develop can utilize and benefit from Hyper-threading already today - even without OS support for SMP.
 
Using Hyperthreading on such drivers lowers latency, improves thoughput (faster IDE/ faster Internet), and improves the snappiness  of the whole system."
 

Offline kolla

Re: APOLLO 68080 is now HYPER-THREADING enabled
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2017, 12:08:03 PM »
"can", "may", "maybe"

So Gunnar passes on big hopes for AROS despite...

http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=4¬e=6171&z=UfZpZv

Quote
Kalamatee (AROS)

Posts 12
05 Jun 2017 18:28

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news - but there won't be support for smp in the m68k build ever. The m68k platform has no provision for working in an smp-like environment, and changes would make it binary incomparable with existing amigaos/aros for m68k.

If the vampire/apollo team create some "smp like" m68k core, it would need its own custom m68k flavour of aros, and most m68k apps won't work on it.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
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A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
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A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
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Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

guest11527

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Re: APOLLO 68080 is now HYPER-THREADING enabled
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2017, 12:22:20 PM »
Actually, that's not quite true. The 68K has as many provisions for multiprocessing as every other CPU, namely the necessary synchronization primitives TAS and CAS (and some members even CAS2), plus cache-snooping. Thus, as far as the 68K series is concerned, there is no show-stopper.

There is a practical show-stopper against SMP, and that's AmigaOs, and the Amiga hardware, which - natively - does not support CAS and TAS. As long as a program runs in local memory (not on Zorro, not on chipmem), and only assymetric multiprocessing is concerned, this is a possibility. Any additional core (wether virtual or real) is then bound to run helper tasks beyond the exec scheduler.

That's possible, though that is as much multiprocessing as the Copper is multiprocessing as well. It's just a more complex second processor that speaks, by chance, 68K machine code and not copper machine code.

None of that will give you multicore multitasking in AmigaOs. The Os is a toy-system with the wrong Os primitives.
 

Offline Robbie

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Re: APOLLO 68080 is now HYPER-THREADING enabled
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2017, 03:10:15 PM »
So essentially it's like putting a toilet in your kitchen and calling it a 'feature'?
 

guest11527

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Re: APOLLO 68080 is now HYPER-THREADING enabled
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2017, 03:19:49 PM »
Quote from: Robbie;827488
So essentially it's like putting a toilet in your kitchen and calling it a 'feature'?

Well.... I would rather say it's more like attaching a power drill to a toothbrush, but except that... Yes, it could potentially be useful in the future somehow, but there features that I would consider more important, that have been delayed for quite a while, and that would provide more benefit. Just that they would require more work to implement and have larger design implications.
 

Offline kolla

Re: APOLLO 68080 is now HYPER-THREADING enabled
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2017, 03:38:46 PM »
Like WarpUp or PowerUp, only with something 68k-ish instead of PowerPC.
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline kolla

Re: APOLLO 68080 is now HYPER-THREADING enabled
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2017, 03:47:28 PM »
There used to be a few multi-processor 68k unix stations back in the days, if I recall correctly. About the same time Amiga users were drewling over the prospect of having transputer cards, lol... how things go around in circles :)
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC
---
A3000/060CSPPC+CVPPC/128MB + 256MB BigRAM/Deneb USB
A4000/CS060/Mediator4000Di/Voodoo5/128MB
A1200/Blz1260/IndyAGA/192MB
A1200/Blz1260/64MB
A1200/Blz1230III/32MB
A1200/ACA1221
A600/V600v2/Subway USB
A600/Apollo630/32MB
A600/A6095
CD32/SX32/32MB/Plipbox
CD32/TF328
A500/V500v2
A500/MTec520
CDTV
MiSTer, MiST, FleaFPGAs and original Minimig
Peg1, SAM440 and Mac minis with MorphOS
 

Offline Gulliver

Re: APOLLO 68080 is now HYPER-THREADING enabled
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2017, 04:27:06 PM »
About two decades ago, for a few weeks I worked as a junior in what was the IT department of a now defunct bank.

I clearly remember they had a dual 68010 unix like server. I was amazed by it.
Cant remember the brandname/model of the machine :(.
 

Offline Rob

APOLLO 68080 is now HYPER-THREADING enabled
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2017, 05:46:47 PM »
Does anyone remember this.

 

Offline Iggy

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Re: APOLLO 68080 is now HYPER-THREADING enabled
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2017, 07:00:34 PM »
Quote from: Rob;827494
Does anyone remember this?

Never saw this before, but its beautiful.
Dual '060s and a PCI bus.
Now imagine a similar board with Apollo cored FPGAs in place of the '060s.

Better yet, PCIe expansion slots instead of the PCI slots...
A second group of custom slots for four to eight FPGA boards...

68K systems capable of eight to sixteen concurrent threads?

SO...could we compete with modern hardware with THAT?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 08:19:11 PM by Iggy »
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Crom00

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Re: APOLLO 68080 is now HYPER-THREADING enabled
« Reply #29 from previous page: June 23, 2017, 07:33:59 PM »
Quote from:
SO...could we compete with modern hardware with THAT?[/QUOTE

Heh... don't give them any more CrAzY ideas. I was on IRC in Dev channel and BigGUN mentioned that including the HT option was easy for him to do since it takes up about 400 gates compared to and FPU that takes up tens of thousands of gates and dev time to perfect.

I don't remember if "gates" was the correct term, but FPGA's have a certain capacity depending on the model. Some sort of term is used to identify the amount of circuitry you can create on an FPGA.

I do some graphics over there, not a hardware or CPU designer, not qualified to get super technical on the matter.